EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

[Eccentric Old Guy]

I'll probably be bugging you guys with "newbie" questions from time to time. Hope you can put up with dumb "new guy" kind of stuff!

I purchased this 1928 Model A Pickup last month, and still waiting to see it in person. The shipping is dragging out for now.

I purchased from Vintage Motors of Glendale, CA on eBay. In the description, it lists this Model A as an older restoration in good mechanical and cosmetic condition, with a "B" engine.

What does "B" engine mean?

Also, I'm looking for any tips you might want to pass along for inspecting this vehicle, once it's finally here.

Thank you for any comments you might have.

Sincerely, odie, the eccentric old guy!

[john charlton]

Looks like a nice truck you will have to master the dark art of "double de clutching" My son has the same truck but not as pretty !!! The model "B" engine came into production in 1932 and is a direct bolt in swap . It is a better engine with a heavier crank which is pressure fed with oil not gravity like an "A" engine .Has more power as well .

John in lovely sunny lockdown Suffolk County England .

[rer_239]

Nice truck. Best advice join a local club!

[David R.]

If you are lucky enough to have a local club. I am in a model A desert.

[Joe K]

Model B intake manifold. Model A derived Tillotson X carburetor.

The difference between the Tilly X and an actual Model B carburetor would be noticeable in power. (The difference between 50 and 40) Since you're half way there (manifold) I would spring the $180 for a rebuilt B and put that one on.

Joe K

[daren007]

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I bought a A with B engine thinking I had the best of both worlds. By time it was over I was thousands poorer and the B went to the scrap. Just a heads up.

[walls]

Subscribe to the the monthly “banger” thread over on the H.A.M.B. for some interesting model A/B discussions.
There’s some knowledgeable guys who post on it, me not being one of them(knowledgeable).

The B engine has a slight advantage over the A in performance, better cam, intake,carb, maybe higher compression head??
Hopefully you have the B transmission as well, it would have synchronized 2nd and 3rd.

1.My recommendation is to purchase the Les Andrews book Vol. 1
That will help you get started with maintenance and getting familiar with your new pickup.

2.Go through the brakes, adjust them properly.
They can work well despite what a lot of people may say.

3.My opinion only and can understand if many disagree, put LED bulbs in your taillights.
They’re much brighter running and when braking, especially if you’re still 6v.
Also, if you have one taillight, add another on the passenger side.

Good luck

[chrs1961815]

Looks great!

B blocks are an advantage, but the problem is that many of them were and are cracked. But if yours runs fine, do not worry about it. But keep it in the back of your head.

Engine compartment looks great - looks like yoh have an original fan belt too.

[1930artdeco]

Welcome to the club! Here are my thoughts:


-Watch the seepage on the left side of the engine from the head gasket. Maybe a warped head/block or the gasket may be toast.


-I am assuming the front motor mount is a stock B mount. If not, then I am not sure what it is.


-If the fan is original-pull it. They have a habit of coming apart and damaging radiators/hoods and heads (yours)! New ones are aluminum original are steel.


-Change fluids drive her and get used to her idiosyncrasies.


Mike

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Thanks for the responses, gentlemen.....

Ahhh, I see......the "B" engine is a direct bolt up of a 1932 engine.....

At this point, I have no idea if I have a 1932 transmission to go with it. Would be nice to have that synchromesh in 2nd and 3rd gears, but I can get by with re-learning the double clutch thing. I actually had a 1930 Model A sport coupe almost 50 years ago, but for only 2-3 years before I sold it......I'm re-familiarizing myself on them now, as I find I have a great lapse of memory on driving the model A. I've been without a Model A since that time......although I've had several other antique cars over the years.

Unknown if it's been converted to 12v......whatever it is, I'll probably keep it that way.

I'm assuming the original bed had a wood floor, and this one looks like all metal.....that's fine with me. I'm not really a purist.....just someone who wants to enjoy a nice model A once in awhile. I believe I'll need a tool box for the bed.....are there any original reproductions available?.....If not, I'll just get one from a local supplier and bolt it on.

What's the best publication for general maintenance of the model A?.....and, where is it available?

Thanks for your help.......it is most appreciated!
odie, the eccentric old guy!

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

I'm assuming the original bed had a wood floor, and this one looks like all metal.....that's fine with me. I'm not really a purist.....just someone who wants to enjoy a nice model A once in awhile.

My comments elsewhere on the bed wood floor:

The "bed boards" (those hardwood boards which make up the rear bed surface and are held by unusual metal "keeper strips" and unusual square bolts and washers) are shown in "The Ford Model A as Henry Built It" by DeAngelis on page 177. Mostly seen varnished today for appearance, they were usually painted quickly along with the bed - and the same color usually (but not always) green.

The bed boards are available from suppliers - I consider the price a little steep but they are hardwood. Ford used various woods including beech and birch, but probably maple would be strongest.

The keeper strips and center metal pan are available too - both in carbon steel and stainless. Also the unusual bolts with shallow carriage type heads and large square washers (one corner turned for alignment.)

Many use oak and stain/poly for appearance. As you say you're no prisoner to accuracy so you can do as you wish. An all metal floor does have advantage in that at least it is durable - the original floors mostly "gone" now.

Joe K
March '29 CC Pickup - type "H" lights, powerhouse generator, speedo escutcheon painted black - Henry didn't waste ANYTHING.

[Russ/40]

Congratulations on a very handsome looking truck. And a big Yayyyy on the color. Don't see many black ones. The B engine isn't a negative thing. It's only negative if terminally cracked, and the same holds true for A engines. Keep us up to date after it arrives, would love to know more.

[Jim Brierley]

Your front motor mount is a '34, much wider than '32 and a little wider than '33. The B does bolt in, with some modifications at the rear. e-mail me at jimb4e4@gmail and I'll send you the chapter in my book about installing a Bee in your A.

[CC-Mo]

Man that's a clean looking truck, congrats.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Welcome to the club! Here are my thoughts:


-Watch the seepage on the left side of the engine from the head gasket. Maybe a warped head/block or the gasket may be toast.


-I am assuming the front motor mount is a stock B mount. If not, then I am not sure what it is.


-If the fan is original-pull it. They have a habit of coming apart and damaging radiators/hoods and heads (yours)! New ones are aluminum original are steel.


-Change fluids drive her and get used to her idiosyncrasies.


Mike

Could try a re-torque of the head .


Am not familiar with using acorn head nuts, any chance they are bottoming out affecting the head torque?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

And welcome to the Barn, nice truck.


I also just noticed the gas in the fuel bowl looks iffy, red/orange.


If so, do not turn it over/start it till you clean out the tank and carb. Or if in a hurry to get it started, you can hang a small container with fresh gas from the hood rod and supply gas to that carb that way. You do not want to suck a bunch of varnish crud into the carb.


The operators manual is great, here is a link where you can down load a copy. Chocked full of info including how to start, maintenance, etc.
http://www.motormayhem.net/model-a-f...owners-manual/

[J Franklin]

My advice is not to start changing or adding things with maybe the exception of the fan blade if it is an original due to safety. make sure the gas and oil are fresh and buy an owners manual. Drive it like you love it and want it to last and it will give good service.
The head seepage should not be a worry as most do that due to capillary action through the gasket. you can make sure the head bolts have proper torque for peace of mind.

[CHuDWah]

Good looking truck - I always liked the "square" cab. FYI, pickups didn't come with rear bumpers. It's a sensible addition but if it was mine, I'd change to a full-width one to match the front - the split bumper was to clear a rear-mounted spare.

As for a toolbox, another option is one mounted on the running board - those were available as aftermarket "back in the day". Or some vendors used to sell one that mounted between the front frame horns. AFAIK, neither is currently available new but used ones can be found. Some folks have made their own.

[Joe K]

I have seen "tool boxes" that plug into the bed pockets and straddle the length of the bed above each side fender. A very practical arrangement thought I, sort of along the lines of a service body truck.

I thought I would make some in wood - with tilted tops to shed rain that hinge up to expose the "till." And hasp locks to keep the tools where you want them.

The pickups, more especially the 28-29 Closed Cab tend to benefit visually from "stake boards" on either side - the tool boxes would emulate this with a purpose.

Joe K

[GerryAllen]

1.My recommendation is to purchase the Les Andrews book Vol. 1, it is a must for a newby.
Gerry Birch Bay WA

[Mike the Grump]

Good lookin Truck. Congrats!

[jimalabam]

EOG: By the way - There are no "dumb" questions when it comes to Model As, and that is from an experience since 1964. WELCOME ABOARD...

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Wow......thanks for all the replies!

Gives me a few things to think about while I'm waiting for delivery.

I wish there was a "like" button......as many of these replies deserve some recognition for the effort.

Thanks Gerry......I'll look for that book......I need some reading material!!!!!

odie, the eccentric old guy!

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by GerryAllen

1.My recommendation is to purchase the Les Andrews book Vol. 1, it is a must for a newby.
Gerry Birch Bay WA

Thank you for the suggestion. Les Andrews book on the way, plus a copy of the original owners manual.

BTW: Interior look right to you guys?

odie, the eccentric old guy!

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I had noticed that the exterior is correct, black headlamp shells, black radiator shell, cowl band painted body color. Truck wood originally would have been pained teh body/bed color. And someone already mentioned no rear bumpers originally.


Interior - Door Cards/kick panels would have been a black cardboard type material, would not have been covered with cloth/vinyl. There also was not a headliner. The floor boards originally were just stained/painted (dipped) black. looks like the shift knob and steering wheel are aftermarket. I do think your interior is very nice, just not original.


I really do like your truck.

[CHuDWah]

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Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Thank you for the suggestion. Les Andrews book on the way, plus a copy of the original owners manual.

BTW: Interior look right to you guys?

odie, the eccentric old guy!

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I had noticed that the exterior is correct, black headlamp shells, black radiator shell, cowl band painted body color. Truck wood originally would have been pained teh body/bed color. And someone already mentioned no rear bumpers originally.

Interior - Door Cards/kick panels would have been a black cardboard type material, would not have been covered with cloth/vinyl. There also was not a headliner. The floor boards originally were just stained/painted (dipped) black. looks like the shift knob and steering wheel are aftermarket. I do think your interior is very nice, just not original.

I really do like your truck.

28 does not have cowl band. No doubt someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I believe brown upholstery and red steering wheel are correct for 28 - agree that shift knob is aftermarket. The steering column support attached under the dash rail is a 31 type. That's a fairly common modification because stress on the gas tank mounted support can cause leaks.

What's that cable(?) looped around the steering column?

[jhowes]

A really nice truck. The advice given is very good, I would add to change out the carb, the Tilly is not the best for this motor etc. Also look into engine pans and by all means check out the fan blade. The original steel blade is dangerous at best. The new Aluminum are cast and excellent. All vendors sell them. Have fun with it. Jack

[Bob C]

From the Standards. through July 1928 they had black artificial leather seats and Spanish brown August 1928--mid 1930. The floor mat was the same rubber mat
as used in cars.

[Charlie Stephens]

Just a couple of more thoughts:
1) If you need to set the timing here is a little information that may come in handy. The first thing you do is to remove the timing pin from the timing cover. You reverse it and stick it into the hole so it contacts the timing gear. You turn the engine until the pin drops into a small dimple on the timing gear. The puts the engine in the correct position so you can now proceed to the distributer to set the timing. See the archives or service bulletin for the whole story. What you need to be aware of is the location of the pin is slightly different between the Model A and Model B engines. You have a Model A distributer and if you time it by the book you need a Model A front timing cover. You can find work arounds in the archives. I have attached a couple of photos. First the pin. Second a Model B timing cover showing the timing pin at the top of the oval boss. A very few timing covers were made using the oval boss with the timing pin at the bottom of the oval boss. Your truck has a Model A distributor and to time it correctly (by the book) you should see a circular boss that has been drilled for the timing pin.
2) In case you get hassled by someone about the rear license plate not being visible behind the bumper I have included a couple of pictures of how I modified the license plate bracket to mount the plate above the light.
3) When you lube it don't forget the throttle shaft that runs behind the engine (see photo), the distributer and the generator (if there is a place to lube, sometimes sealed bearings were used). These are places that are frequently overlooked.
4) Looks like a nice truck, have fun with it.

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by jhowes

A really nice truck. The advice given is very good, I would add to change out the carb, the Tilly is not the best for this motor etc. Also look into engine pans and by all means check out the fan blade. The original steel blade is dangerous at best. The new Aluminum are cast and excellent. All vendors sell them. Have fun with it. Jack

If I changed the carb it would be because it had problems and I would probably replace it with a Model B carb which is slightly larger than a Model A carb. The intake manifold is Model B which would go well with the slightly larger Model B carb.

Charlie Stephens

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by CHuDWah

28 does not have cowl band. No doubt someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I believe brown upholstery and red steering wheel are correct for 28 - agree that shift knob is aftermarket. The steering column support attached under the dash rail is a 31 type. That's a fairly common modification because stress on the gas tank mounted support can cause leaks.

What's that cable(?) looped around the steering column?

So I noticed you highlighted the door cards/kick panels being black - is this correct or incorrect? I do not see you commenting on this.


I was pretty sure trucks did not have floor mats since they were more of a utility vehicle, and also what is what I have heard from club members and read somewhere.


Thanks for the corrections.

[Bob C]

[QUOTE=30 Closed Cab PU;1871118]So I noticed you highlighted the door cards/kick panels being black - is this correct or incorrect? I do not see you commenting on this.


Could be black or brown depending if it is early or late 1928. See page
E-66 Trim Schemes of the Standards or page 12-33.


I was pretty sure trucks did not have floor mats since they were more of a utility vehicle, and also what is what I have heard from club members and read somewhere.


See Floor Coverings page E-60 or 11-3 of the Standard. The mat was part
number A-35230, A-35230-B, or A-35230-C dependent on hand brake location.

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by CHuDWah

28 does not have cowl band. No doubt someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I believe brown upholstery and red steering wheel are correct for 28 - agree that shift knob is aftermarket. The steering column support attached under the dash rail is a 31 type. That's a fairly common modification because stress on the gas tank mounted support can cause leaks.

What's that cable(?) looped around the steering column?

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

So I noticed you highlighted the door cards/kick panels being black - is this correct or incorrect? I do not see you commenting on this.


I was pretty sure trucks did not have floor mats since they were more of a utility vehicle, and also what is what I have heard from club members and read somewhere.


Thanks for the corrections.

My comment on door/kick panels is highlighted above. I may have confused by using the term "upholstery". I was including the door/kick panels as well as seat, but "interior" probably would have been more accurate.

But see Bob C's posts #28 and #32 above - looks like you and I were both half right.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by CHuDWah

28 does not have cowl band. No doubt someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I believe brown upholstery and red steering wheel are correct for 28 - agree that shift knob is aftermarket. The steering column support attached under the dash rail is a 31 type. That's a fairly common modification because stress on the gas tank mounted support can cause leaks.

What's that cable(?) looped around the steering column?

Been a few days since I logged in.......thank you all for comments. I took delivery on this '28 truck yesterday, and it sits in the storage space for now.

I checked the engine number (A263xxx) against the MAFCA chart, and it matches production date of July 1928......so, the engine, I presume is original, and cannot be a model B engine.

production date chart from MAFCA here:
http://www.mafca.com/data_eng_production.html

@CHuDWah, I have no idea what that cable was.....it wasn't there when I took delivery.

I've seen photos of other '28 Fords with the brown steering wheel......I'm assuming it's the original steering wheel.....?

The truck is very dusty......but, appears to be a body-off restoration, but older. The frame, suspension, etc appears to have been painted, and reassembled. Who knows how long ago it was restored, or how much it's been driven, but it appears to have set quite a bit.

There is no battery.....been removed. How do you put a new battery in? Do you have to remove the floorboard to access? Can I get a regular 6v battery at NAPA, or is this a special sized battery? (I checked with NAPA, and they stock 6v batteries.......just not sure it's the right one.

All this is assuming it's a 6v system, and hasn't been converted to 12v. I checked on the starter and generator, and didn't see any markings (but it was getting dark). The oogah horn does have a plate and marked for 6v.

Once I get a battery in it, I can try to start and drive it.......then I'll have a good idea of what needs to be done....... It does have operational brakes.....thankfully!!!!! Tires look aged a bit, but good tread, and no noticeable cracking.

The Les Andrews book hasn't arrived yet......

I'll need a source of supplies, and counting on you guys to steer me towards where I can get needed parts for maintenance, the aluminum radiator fan, spark plugs, points (?), etc. (Is there an oil filter?)

Is the oil a non-detergent oil? What weight gear oil for transmission and differential?

odie, the eccentric old guy!

Can you tell if this is a 6v system by it's looks in this photo?

[Chris in WNC]

Until you can drop the oil pan and confirm it is clean, use non-detergent. Thereafter you can use detergent. 10W-30 seems to be the current favorite but I have used straight 30W for years. Just buy the cheapest oil you can find- it will be 10X better than 1929 oil was.
Tractor Supply sells it in big containers 4-5-qt.

You need a group 1, 6-volt battery, which is very common. Most retailers have them.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Been a few days since I logged in.......thank you all for comments. I took delivery on this '28 truck yesterday, and it sits in the storage space for now.

I checked the engine number (A263xxx) against the MAFCA chart, and it matches production date of July 1928......so, the engine, I presume is original, and cannot be a model B engine.

production date chart from MAFCA here:
http://www.mafca.com/data_eng_production.html

@CHuDWah, I have no idea what that cable was.....it wasn't there when I took delivery.

I've seen photos of other '28 Fords with the brown steering wheel......I'm assuming it's the original steering wheel.....?

The truck is very dusty......but, appears to be a body-off restoration, but older. The frame, suspension, etc appears to have been painted, and reassembled. Who knows how long ago it was restored, or how much it's been driven, but it appears to have set quite a bit.

There is no battery.....been removed. How do you put a new battery in? Do you have to remove the floorboard to access? Can I get a regular 6v battery at NAPA, or is this a special sized battery? (I checked with NAPA, and they stock 6v batteries.......just not sure it's the right one.


Most 6 V batteries will work. I get mine from either Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet, since they have them available and do not have to be ordered, typically a little cheaper than the auto parts stores. Battery is under the lower floor board, on the drivers side. Remove that floorboard, look for the ground cable that goes directly to the frame. The clamp on that cable for the battery terminal post should be sized for the battery post, if it is sized for a battery post for the positive battery post you have a positive ground electrical system. Couple that with the fact you have a generator instead of an alternator, most likely you have a 6 v positive ground system. Most 6v batteries will fit, if you want to be sure measure the dimensions of the battery opening in the truck and compare to what you want to purchase.

All this is assuming it's a 6v system, and hasn't been converted to 12v. I checked on the starter and generator, and didn't see any markings (but it was getting dark). The oogah horn does have a plate and marked for 6v.

Once I get a battery in it, I can try to start and drive it.......then I'll have a good idea of what needs to be done....... It does have operational brakes.....thankfully!!!!! Tires look aged a bit, but good tread, and no noticeable cracking.


Since it may have sat for a while, 1st thing is to drain all the old gas - do not want to plug up the carb with old varnishy gas, your sediment bowl gas does not look good (orangish/red). Drain the tank, empty the sediment bowl, and empty the carb float bowl. Make sure the radiator is full, the oil is full, crank it some with the ignition off to prime the oil into the motor, then try to start. If it was me let it get good and warm and change the oil before driving it far. Also do a full lube replacement,. Oil/lube generator, distributor, grease water pump. Full chassis grease job. Sometime soon it may be a good idea to drop the oil pan and inspect for oil sludge - if sludge is found both the bottom end via the oil pan and the valve galley behind the valve access panel should be cleaned out. After sitting for long periods, or if not maintained for a long time grease hardens, and oil can go bad.

The Les Andrews book hasn't arrived yet......

I'll need a source of supplies, and counting on you guys to steer me towards where I can get needed parts for maintenance, the aluminum radiator fan, spark plugs, points (?), etc. (Is there an oil filter?)


Many good sources - Brattons, Snyders, Berts, Mikes, others. Personally I stay away from MACs and Vintique. Other may add their preferences/other suppliers.


Originally the A did not have an oil filter, but there is an oil screen on the oil pump accessed by dropping the oil pan. Some have added an oil filter. From your pictures you do not seem to have a filter. You would see it on the passangers side of the motor if you had one.


Is the oil a non-detergent oil? What weight gear oil for transmission and differential?


Originally it used either 20 W or 30w straight weight non detergent oil. But this was before availability of multi-weight detergent oil. Most now use a multi grade detergent oil. If you ask what is best there are many opinions, the key is to change it every 500 miles - more important than what you use.


Also consider re-torqueing the head soon. After sitting for a long time, gaskets can compress/dry out, if not retorqued can cause the head gasket to go bad.

odie, the eccentric old guy!

Can you tell if this is a 6v system by it's looks in this photo?

see above


Other than maintenance items you look to have a very nice truck - congratulations!

------------

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Also rear end and transmission oil is usually called 600W oil, available form the model a vendors. There are also other options others here on the Barn can recommend.

[Bob C]

The picture of the engine you posted has a B head on it, post a picture of the
other side of the engine so we can tell for sure what it is.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The picture of the engine you posted has a B head on it, post a picture of the
other side of the engine so we can tell for sure what it is.

Here you go, Bob C............
Is it possible to have a model B head on a model A block????? (the serial number of the block definitely places it at a July 1928 date.......this does seem confusing, for sure.....!

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

see above


Other than maintenance items you look to have a very nice truck - congratulations!

------------

Hello 30 CCPU........I can't do any maintenance at the storage place, so it looks like I'll have to get a battery and drive it to my home. About a 2-3 mile trip. Then I can drain the old gas from the tank, and commence with retorque of head, lube job, drop the pan, clean oil screen, change oil....etc......

I can add some fresh gas to the tank.....that might be a good idea, eh?

EOG

[KUDZUVIPER]

Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.

Nice truck!

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by KUDZUVIPER

Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.

Nice truck!

This is definitely confusing. The serial number on the block is A263xxx, which places it at a July 1928 mfg date.....

Is it possible to have a model B head on a Model A block?????

EOG

[Bob C]

The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.

It was common to restamp the replacement engine to keep all the registration straight at the time.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

It was common to restamp the replacement engine to keep all the registration straight at the time.

Originally Posted by Bob C

The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.

Ah-ha......well, gentlemen.....that would explain it!

I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it.

EOG

[Eccentric Old Guy]

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Originally Posted by KUDZUVIPER

Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.

Nice truck!

Is that the "block off plate" for the model B engine just in front of the carburetor?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Hello 30 CCPU........I can't do any maintenance at the storage place, so it looks like I'll have to get a battery and drive it to my home. About a 2-3 mile trip. Then I can drain the old gas from the tank, and commence with retorque of head, lube job, drop the pan, clean oil screen, change oil....etc......

I can add some fresh gas to the tank.....that might be a good idea, eh?

EOG

Not a good idea - any chance you can push it outside and do it? All you have to do is turn off the gas shut off under the tank (lever horizontal, not vertical, lever down is on), empty the sediment bowl, get some rubber-vinyl hose/remove the gas line at the carb, put the hose over the gas line and turn on the fuel valve to drain the old gas into a container. Facing the carb on the bottom, remove the left bolt on the bottom to drain the carb.


That gas in the sediment bowl looks nasty to me. Do not even hand crank or use the starter without draining the tank and adding fresh gas 1st - other wise you may suck up varnish/junk into the carb passages/jets and plug up your carb.


I had this happen to me when I originally resuscitated my A, ended up purchasing a rebuilt carb after I cleaned out the tank. I could not get the motor to run . It would fire, but would not run.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Ah-ha......well, gentlemen.....that would explain it!

I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it.

EOG

If the block has been restamped, usually means the old # has been ground off. So if the number area is smooth or a different texture than the surrounding block - it is a restamp. If the area texture on the block matches the # area, then it is original. The #s were hand stamped a digit at a time by hand during production, so most digits are not perfectly aligned.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Could try a re-torque of the head .

Am not familiar with using acorn head nuts, any chance they are bottoming out affecting the head torque?

A lot of times the "acorn nuts" are just caps stuck over the the real head nuts. Pull up on them to see if they come off before retoqueing your head.

BTW, definitely a 'B' Head, you have the three bolt water pump. (Didn't see that mentioned anywhere)

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

...I've seen photos of other '28 Fords with the brown steering wheel......I'm assuming it's the original steering wheel.....?...

I'd say the steering wheel is correct. It's usually referred to as "red" (as opposed to later black ones) but it can be brownish, especially with some age on it.

You've gotten some good answers, so just a little expansion on battery replacement. You have to remove the horizontal half of the floorboard (as opposed to the angled half that meets the firewall). Lift the mat and you can see the bolts around the perimeter. There is an inspection plate in the floorboard - unfortunately it's not big enough for battery removal/replacement.

And re your engine...

It's a B - fuel pump block-off and no oil return tube. Model A engine number is on driver-side pad above water inlet. B is on flywheel housing but curiously it still has the pad (blank) like A. I'd guess yours was stamped in the A location, presumably with the original 28 number. Does it have stars on each end of the number? Does it match the title? Hopefully this will not cause titling problems with the MVD.

An A engine was numbered when it passed testing/inspection. However, there could be as much as a 3-month lapse before it was installed in a chassis. At that point, the engine number was stamped on top of the driver-side frame rail when the vehicle was assembled. It would be interesting to see if your frame number matches the engine number, but unfortunately you have to remove the cab to see it - even then, it's not always easily visible. Ford considered the engine/frame number to be the vehicle's serial number - they say so in the owner's manual (Instruction Book in Ford-speak). Many states used it as the title number, although some now assign their own number.

Bob C quoted the judging standards that brown interior started in August 28. If your (original) engine was July, and given the lapse between engine numbering and vehicle assembly, brown could be correct for your truck.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Not a good idea - any chance you can push it outside and do it? All you have to do is turn off the gas shut off under the tank (lever horizontal, not vertical, lever down is on), empty the sediment bowl, get some rubber-vinyl hose/remove the gas line at the carb, put the hose over the gas line and turn on the fuel valve to drain the old gas into a container. Facing the carb on the bottom, remove the left bolt on the bottom to drain the carb.

OK Thanks......this sounds like the plan.

eog

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by CHuDWah

I'd say the steering wheel is correct. It's usually referred to as "red" (as opposed to later black ones) but it can be brownish, especially with some age on it.

You've gotten some good answers, so just a little expansion on battery replacement. You have to remove the horizontal half of the floorboard (as opposed to the angled half that meets the firewall). Lift the mat and you can see the bolts around the perimeter. There is an inspection plate in the floorboard - unfortunately it's not big enough for battery removal/replacement.

And re your engine...

It's a B - fuel pump block-off and no oil return tube. Model A engine number is on driver-side pad above water inlet. B is on flywheel housing but curiously it still has the pad (blank) like A. I'd guess yours was stamped in the A location, presumably with the original 28 number. Does it have stars on each end of the number? Does it match the title? Hopefully this will not cause titling problems with the MVD.

An A engine was numbered when it passed testing/inspection. However, there could be as much as a 3-month lapse before it was installed in a chassis. At that point, the engine number was stamped on top of the driver-side frame rail when the vehicle was assembled. It would be interesting to see if your frame number matches the engine number, but unfortunately you have to remove the cab to see it - even then, it's not always easily visible. Ford considered the engine/frame number to be the vehicle's serial number - they say so in the owner's manual (Instruction Book in Ford-speak). Many states used it as the title number, although some now assign their own number.

Bob C quoted the judging standards that brown interior started in August 28. If your (original) engine was July, and given the lapse between engine numbering and vehicle assembly, brown could be correct for your truck.

Ok, thanks CHuDWah

That gives me a better idea of battery replacement......probably sometime this coming week.

BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color.

Yes, the motor number is the same as on the title (Texas).....I don't recall any extra numbers, or stars. It just A with 6 digits, as I recall.

One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that.

Thanks for posting your thoughts......

eog

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that.

Model As are 6v, positive ground, originally.

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

If the block has been restamped, usually means the old # has been ground off. So if the number area is smooth or a different texture than the surrounding block - it is a restamp. If the area texture on the block matches the # area, then it is original. The #s were hand stamped a digit at a time by hand during production, so most digits are not perfectly aligned.

True for A. But B is factory-stamped on flywheel cover, yet still has number pad above water inlet like A. The pad is blank so it could be non-factory-stamped and still have same texture as block.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Ah-ha......well, gentlemen.....that would explain it!

I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it.

EOG

It is probably a Model A trans. The Model A trans is a gear box that is bolted to a bell housing (photo on the left). The Model B is a one piece casting for the gear box and bell housing (photo on the right). You probably have a Model A trans. It is possible to convert.
1. You need to buy or fabricate something to hold the brake and clutch pedals. The Model A had a shaft coming out the side of the bell housing to support the brake and clutch pedals. The Model B had a throw out arm coming out of the bell housing and bracket mounted to the frame.
2. You need to make a bracket for the wishbone, the Model a wishbone attached to the bottom of the bell housing and the Model B attached to the frame.
3. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Charlie Stephens

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

...BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color.

From your description, sounds like door panels are original - replacements often are fabric covered. Dunno if non-fabric have been reproduced.

Yes, the motor number is the same as on the title (Texas).....I don't recall any extra numbers, or stars. It just A with 6 digits, as I recall.

I asked because factory-stamped number has a star at both ends - more evidence that your A number was non-factory-stamped on a bare B pad.

One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground.

Positive

...

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by CHuDWah

...

The door panels look too nice to be original......possibly hand made by someone (?).

Looks like it's agreed by those in the know that it would be positive ground......glad I asked, because I would have hooked it up backwards.

Thanks for the comeback.

eog

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

3. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Right-O, Charlie

I plan to do a little general maintenance.......other than that, my life is full of other things to do! I just want something I can drive once in a while......and, have a little fun!

EOG

[Charlie Stephens]

Hook it up correctly as positive ground. If you replace the cables be sure to get cables from an early Ford parts supplier that will be the correct diameter. If you buy them from the local auto parts store you will probably get cables designed for 12 volts which are smaller (the counterman in the store won't know the difference). When the engine is not running turn on the lights and confirm the ammeter shows a discharge. If it shows charge then someone that probably didn't know what they were doing was working on the electrical system. Don't just reverse the leads on the ammeter. Post and we will walk you through the fix.

Charlie Stephens

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Hook it up correctly as positive ground. If you replace the cables be sure to get cables from an early Ford parts supplier that will be the correct diameter. If you buy them from the local auto parts store you will probably get cables designed for 12 volts which are smaller (the counterman in the store won't know the difference). When the engine is not running turn on the lights and confirm the ammeter shows a discharge. If it shows charge then someone that probably didn't know what they were doing was working on the electrical system. Don't just reverse the leads on the ammeter. Post and we will walk you through the fix.

Charlie Stephens

OK, I will.......what do you think about replacing the radiator fan with a newer aluminum one? Does "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" apply there, too?

Have a good day all.....

eog

[Charlie Stephens]

Fix the fan. An accident just waiting to happen is close enough to broke. Be sure to buy the aluminum fan new from one of the reputable vendors (like Bratton's). Some of the early ones had blades that were not in a line and had the wrong taper where the fan goes on the water pump shaft. Immediately look for cracks starting to form on your fan blade as replacing it will probably not be your next project.

Charlie Stephens

[noyo55]

Replace the fan--a lot of us who are long term A owners(56 yrs for me same car 3 wives) have found out the hard way that the original fans let go sometimes with expensive consequences. Penny wise pound foolish rather than if it aint broke dont fix it for this one. The B engine is not a direct replacement, if , using the A gearbox you have to use the A bell housing. The B oil pan has the lower part of the flywheel cover built in. It needs to be trimmed off to fit the A bell housing. If you look at the oil pan and it is not trimmed you have an A gearbox, if its still on the oil pan you have a B trans. . Find an old fart that knows how to double clutch have him take you fpor a ride. Double clutching is easy to learn. If you really get it down you can do it without the clutch( only for experianced A drivers try it)

[Charlie Stephens]

When I put a Model B engine in my '31 RDPU I kept the Model A transmission. Attached is a picture showing the strip of metal I left when I cut off the rear part of the Model B oil pan. I didn't want to try removing the spot welds and risking a leak.

Charlie Stephens

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Ok, thanks CHuDWah


BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color.



One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that.


eog

Model Ts I believe were negative ground, can not remember why Henry decided to make Model As positive ground.


From teh factory pickups were not fabric/vinyl covered from teh factory. They are considered a utility/commercial type vehicle, Henry decided it was not needed. If you have cardboard/ semi flexible door cards and kick panels, they could be original, quite a find especially if they are in good shape.. I have original black door cards but no kick panels. My truck is a late 30 but the door cards are in poor shape - pieces of the cards missing, very worn.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

You guys are such a help.....thanks!

I'm working up an order at Snyder's for:

two blade aluminum fan
fan knock off tool
fan belt

Any words of wisdom, suggestions, before I place this order?

What about spark plugs......get them at the local auto parts store?

Where can I get an original gear shift knob?

eog

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

What plugs were in it that you took out?


Tip - when replacing the fan place cardboard against the radiator fins/core to prevent accidental damage.

[1930artdeco]

You can plugs at the local store (get the champion W18?)or you can spring for the repop Champion 3X plugs (I think they run better). As far as shift knob, swap meet, ebay, snyders, Berts should have an original if that is what you want.


Mike

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

What plugs were in it that you took out?


Tip - when replacing the fan place cardboard against the radiator fins/core to prevent accidental damage.

Hello 30CCPU.......

I'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, I'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer......

I don't know what plugs were installed. To date, I've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model B engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model A engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions?

The order to Snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob.

Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread.

What's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at Snyders. Since I have a model B engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges?????

eog

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

You can plugs at the local store (get the champion W18?)or you can spring for the repop Champion 3X plugs (I think they run better). As far as shift knob, swap meet, ebay, snyders, Berts should have an original if that is what you want.


Mike

Hello Mike.......would these plugs be the same as for a model B engine?

Thank you for responding.

eog

[Bob C]

The plugs are the same. You will have to remove the water pump or
the radiator to change the fan.


Bob

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by eccentric old guy

hello 30ccpu.......

i'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, i'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer...... for a little added room, you can take the radiator support rods loose and tilt the radiator, involves draining a little coolant so you can take the upper radiator hose loose.

i don't know what plugs were installed. To date, i've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model b engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model a engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions?


iam not familiar with the b motor, would hate to guess. Hopefully other can chime in if the same as the a motor.


for the a motor closest plugs to the original champion c3 plugs (the c3s are expensive) are champion w18. If doing a lot of touring and high speed driving some use motorcraft tt10 or 3076, they run a little cooler and are inexpensive.

the order to snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob.

Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread.:d

what's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at snyders. Since i have a model b engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges?????


to make the as as inexpensive as they could for the average joe in the 1920s, a lot of things are left out. Very little luxury in an a. But were designed with maintenance to be reliable for their day. Gauges. Heaters, one brake tail light, etc.


the a is a gravity fed oil system, very little oil pressure where the guage probe typically installed. The gauge only reads 2lbs or less, maybe up to 4 - 5 lbs in cooler/cold weather and then decreases as the oil/motor warms. I do not use one, but others do.


i do have a coolant gauge, had overheating issues, found it very helpful in diagnosing my problems, plus is handy if you plan on being in parades. Best to know if it is close to overheating and pulling over and letting the motor cool down, instead of waiting for it to overheat - causing possible motor damage.


the probe should go in the upper radiator water outlet neck, which means you need to change out the neck with one of these.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/productdetail/a-8251-ax_drilled-water-outlet-iron-28-29?fromcategory=searchbykeyword
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/productdetail/a-8251-bx_drilled-water-outlet-iron-30-31?fromcategory=searchbykeyword
the angle on the neck is different between the above 2, you will have to choose the correct one.
or this, does not look original, but still looks nice, allows for easily adding thermostat.
http://vintageprecision.com/products...ing/index.html


the 1st 2 you can add a thermostat by putting it in the upper radiator hose. If you decide to add a thermostat, ask and we can go into modifying the thermostat for additional coolant bypass. Without additional bypass there can be certain conditions that may cause cylinder 4 to overheat and cause damage.


either way i recommend using distilled water for coolant, with a bottle of napa 1300 rust inhibitor. Then after you know your cooling system does not overheat or leak consider going to 50/50 green antifreeze. There is debate on antifreeze, but after talking to a couple of motor rebuilders 50/50 is my preference. The major downside to antifreeze is it will damage your paint if it leaks or overheats. This includes if you have a water pump that drips from the water pump shaft, gets blown all over by the cooling fan.


and then also perhaps install a coolant filter, and the thermostat. In cooler weather with a cooling system in prime shape the motor does not reach proper operating temp. This can contribute to oil contamination, perhaps a little decline in gas mileage. The coolant filter keeps rust/junk from getting into your radiator and plugging it up.


this is the typical coolant filter used. Most use the clear one.
https://ganofilters.com/


eog

111

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Forgot to mention, when you take the sediment bowl off, there is a filter screen,. It is possible it may be varnished up, clean it with brake clean, hold it up to a light to make sure its not clogged up with varnish.

[supergnat]

The generator appears to be an original version so I really doubt the car has been converted to 12 volts. Supergnat

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Hello 30CCPU.......

I'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, I'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer......

I don't know what plugs were installed. To date, I've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model B engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model A engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions?

The order to Snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob.

Your choice but if you're not having the truck judged, I'd keep the aftermarket one - it's "period" and kinda cool. Whatever, don't trash it - it's worth a few bucks.

Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread.

What's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at Snyders. Since I have a model B engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges?????

You'll get at least as many opinions as people you ask. Mine is it may not help but it won't hurt. The parts vendors have gauges and some nifty brackets that fit existing bolts so you don't have to drill extra holes - or you could get a fancy Dunn Aristocrat.



eog

...

[Eccentric Old Guy]

I went out to the Model A this afternoon, and noticed that the red lead is connected to the starter motor, and the black lead is connected to the bell housing. I searched on FordBarn and found that it preferable to connect the positive to the frame and the negative to the starter motor.

Anyway, I'm wondering if the previous owner may have connected the battery as negative ground because of the color coding of the battery cables......? My question is what would have been the consequences of hooking up a battery incorrectly, and then attempting to start it?

I also went to the auto parts store, and they closed up early today. I'll go back tomorrow and pick up a 6v "group one" battery, and drain the gas. Hopefully, I can get it running, and bring it home for further inspection and some routine maintenance.

Any input is welcome......thank you.

eog

[J Franklin]

Don't just go by the cable color, but where they attach both to the car and the battery.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

double post......
eog

[Y-Blockhead]

Note that the battery posts are different size, the positive post being a larger diameter. This might help you determine which cable is ground and power.

[J Franklin]

Most battery are marked + & - also

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Am not 100% sure what will happen if attempting to start with battery hooked up backwards.


This is my best guess on original design components; all lights - not polarity sensitive , electric motor Wipers - not polarity sensitive, starter - not polarity sensitive, horn - not polarity sensitive, Stock generator with stock design cutout - will probably stop charging since it will lose polarization but will not be damaged (is easy to re-polarize), Ignition - will still work but at reduced voltage output/spark due to the coil polarity being incorrect.


Reversing polarity on non stock design charging systems is where you have to be careful because electronics may be damaged - Diode style cutout, regulators instead of cutout. If converted to alternator - I believe these are polarity sensitive since they have integrated regulation/electronics and will be damaged.


From the factory - Starter cable is always red. Ground cable is always a large flat woven wire uninsulated cable going to the frame (unless some one has modified this). As post 78 indicates the battery posts are different sizes so if the A has been converted to - ground, the cable colors remain the same and cable clamps are changed since they are also different sizes.


Since the starter is grounded mechanically where it mounts, its ground path back to the battery is also through other mechanical ground connections - motor pans/motor mounts etc. Over time corrosion/etc. can affect the quality of the starter ground path and cause the starter to turn over slower. So a modification is done where an additional ground cable is added (typically a 0 gauge cable) between the tranny/bell housing to the battery/frame ground connection.


Once you have the battery installed and before turning on the ignition, turn on your headlights and check the ammeter. It should show discharge/negative. If it shows positive battery is probably in backwards.


If not familiar with the starting procedures thoroughly read/understand what is in the Model A Operator/user manual. Do not over use the choke. The choke rod is used to prime the intake /cylinders with fuel/air for only a couple of compressions and then released/pushed in. The car should start when you release the choke rod. Do not think you should have to pull it out and hold it out until it starts - this will flood the motor. When starting it is important to have the left lever, spark advance, fully up. When it starts running immediately pull the lever down 1/2 - 1/3 its travel downwards.


Check your messages.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Any problems with using some starting fluid to get up and running for the first time?????

eog

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Any problems with using some starting fluid to get up and running for the first time?????

eog

Use sparingly, it washes oil/lube off teh cylinder walls.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Hello all......drained tank and installed new battery......couldn't get it running. Flooding issues. Fuel was dribbling out the carb intake, a continuous drip, drip, drip, until the tank shut-off valve was closed. I'm thinking maybe a stuck float, float not buoyant and allowing a continuous flow of gas, or some grunge in the float valve. Your thoughts, please......

I'm thinking maybe a carburetor re-build is in order.

I think this may not be a Zenith Carburetor. Can anyone look at this photo and identify what carburetor I have? (This is a 1932 model B engine.)

Thank you for any input, advice, thoughts you may have on this......

Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers. This may work, but if I'm going to remove the carburetor, I think I can jury-rig a little better......would have to make up a clamp that suits the purpose a little better.......or, buy another intake manifold?????

EOG

[SoCal_Alden]

Looks like you may have a Tillotson Carb.

[Charlie Stephens]

The carburetor appears to have a rectangular float bowl like a Model B but I am afraid it isn't. The fuel inlet for the Model B is in the front. The reflection from your carburetor appears to be alloy instead of cast iron. The Zenith should say "Zenith" on the bowl. Does yours say anything? The first picture shows a Model A carb with a round float bowl and the fuel line entering from the side and the second one shows a Model B carb with a rectangular bowl and the fuel line entering from the front. My advice would be to find a Model B carb and have its rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself).

Charlie Stephens

[1955cj5]

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I agree...Tillotson...Model X.

Here are some better pictures, the Tillotson name is cast on the side towards the engine...

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Not the typical zenith carb used on most A version engines where the float bowl is in the bottom half of the carb. This is a side bowl carb, sorry do not know enough to ID it. My best guess it is a B Carb.


Just to make sure the ignition is somewhat functioning - take a spark plug lead off a spark plug, and place the free end of the lead about a 1/4 in away from the spark plug post. Turn the ignition on and hit the starter, should see a blue flash/spark across the gap. If not you also have an ignition issue.


If the intake manifold is not sealed, you will run lean, but I think it would still run, just not run well. I would worry about this later.


Sounds like you know some about carbs. If the bowl overfills the excess gas starts leaking out the air intake and/or a small hole in bottom of the air intake.


Take a spark plug out and confirm if it is dry, or flooded with gas.


Check the gas line connection and the carb gas filter to insure it is not leaking there, check the bowl drain plug to insure it is not leaking there. Same with whatever holds the bottom of the float bowl onto the carb.


Next as you indicate 1st things to look at are the float and the float valve. Float - remove and shake it and listen to see gas has leaked into it, make sure it hinges freely up and down. Float valve - remove it and exercise it, clean it out if you can. Reassemble the carb and turn it upside down with the bottom of the float bowl off, blow hard into the gas line connection to see if the float valve seals and does not leak, exercise the float up and down very gently/slowly while blowing and the valve should seal.


Am not familiar with this carb, someone else will need to tell you how to check/set the float level.


That's about all you can do without a through cleaning/adjust of the carb.


If you have a spare working carb, or can borrow one, try swapping, I believe all A motor carbs work on the b motor - somebody correct me if I am wrong.


There are good procedures for the a motor Zenith carb for cleaning/rebuilding/setting. I do not remember see anything for the sidebowl carb. Hopefully others can help.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers. intake manifold?????

EOG

This is why whenever the manifolds are replaced it is best to face them as a pair. This is also why it is best to torque around 35# also.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

I agree...Tillotson...Model X.

Here are some better pictures, the Tillotson name is cast on the side towards the engine...

Yep, thanks 1955cj5.....that appears to be the critter. Tillotson it be. I remember it giving the model number on the side like that, but didn't write it down at the time. There is a model number hand stamped beside the "X" if I'm remembering it correctly.

(Nice lookin' "square back" Model A PU you have there. I'm seeing a few others with some great looking color combinations.....you guys are so creative! )

At this point I don't know if I have ignition problems as well. There were no hic-ups, as I tried to start it.....but, I'm assuming it was flooded from the git-go, so I could have good ignition that was thwarted by too much fuel. I had a friend with me this afternoon when I tried to start it up, but we didn't pull a plug to find out if there was good spark. Just wondering if there is a way to check for ignition if I'm by myself.......looks like this might be a 2-man operation to do it right......?

EOG

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Before tearing into the carb - with the gas on try tapping the float bowl with something like a screwdriver handle, or wrench, or hammer, etc. A couple of times in the past this has worked for me, getting the float valve to seat better.


To check ignition - take a lead off a plug, space it a 1/8 - 1/4 inch from the plug. ignition on. On the drivers side of the motor push the starter rod into the switch toward the starter motor, check for spark. A one man way of doing it.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Before tearing into the carb - with the gas on try tapping the float bowl with something like a screwdriver handle, or wrench, or hammer, etc. A couple of times in the past this has worked for me, getting the float valve to seat better.


To check ignition - take a lead off a plug, space it a 1/8 - 1/4 inch from the plug. ignition on. On the drivers side of the motor push the starter rod into the switch toward the starter motor, check for spark. A one man way of doing it.

Thanks 30CCPU.......I didn't know about this little "tapping" trick.....but, my friend who accompanied me to attempt a 1st start-up, did! We tried that, and were unsuccessful.

I went out to the truck this morning and installed a battery cut-off switch, and removed the Tillotson carburetor. I have it on my desk as I type, but haven't disassembled it yet.

I see your advice for one-man check of the spark.....so simple.....why didn't I think of that! Oh well.....next time out to the truck, and I'll try that.

This is a Model X-F Tillotson.

A couple hours later: Carb has been disassembled and reassembled......thanks to a YouTube video. Only things I found wrong is the float needle valve seemed a little sticky, but couldn't visibly see any grunge in the orifice. After cleaning, it did move freely. There was supposed to be a little gasket around the float needle valve seat, which was missing. I replaced it with a rubber o ring. There was a little grunge in the float bowl, but not much. The main jet, and idle mixture screw seemed ok. (I used a rubber hose and blew into it.....air was passing, so I assume it's all ok......did the same for the float needle valve, ok there, too.)

OK.....wish me luck!!!!!

EOG

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

. There was supposed to be a little gasket around the float needle valve seat, which was missing. I replaced it with a rubber o ring.ok there, too.)

OK.....wish me luck!!!!!

EOG

If you are talking about a washer around the threaded portion of the float valve, it is called a shim washer. You use different thicknesses or multiple washers to set the float height. It is not recommended to set the float height by bending the tang on the float. The O-ring is ok for now but best to get the correct washer(s). Depending on the type of rubber it is it may not hold up with ethanol gas. Ethanol eats rubber.


Good Luck.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

If you are talking about a washer around the threaded portion of the float valve, it is called a shim washer. You use different thicknesses or multiple washers to set the float height. It is not recommended to set the float height by bending the tang on the float. The O-ring is ok for now but best to get the correct washer(s). Depending on the type of rubber it is it may not hold up with ethanol gas. Ethanol eats rubber.


Good Luck.

Hey there 30ccpu.......using non-ethanol premium gas.....the only gas I can get without ethanol.

Bad news......carburetor still leaks like a sieve. Also tried to check spark and couldn't detect a spark. My 13/16 spark plug socket won't fit the spark plug (I see it's 7/8"), so I disconnected the spark plug strap and put it close to the terminal.

I guess the next step is to get a full rebuild kit for the Carburetor.

Does anyone know if a model A intake manifold will fit the model B engine? I see quite a few model A intake manifolds on eBay, not very expensive.

EOG

[Bob C]

Yes the A manifold work and you will notice that the choke rod will
line up better to the carb.


Bob

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Hey there 30ccpu.......using non-ethanol premium gas.....the only gas I can get without ethanol.

Bad news......carburetor still leaks like a sieve. Also tried to check spark and couldn't detect a spark. My 13/16 spark plug socket won't fit the spark plug (I see it's 7/8"), so I disconnected the spark plug strap and put it close to the terminal.

I guess the next step is to get a full rebuild kit for the Carburetor.

Does anyone know if a model A intake manifold will fit the model B engine? I see quite a few model A intake manifolds on eBay, not very expensive.

EOG

Yes the manifold will fit but why are you asking about the A manifold? Is there anything wrong with your Model B manifold? Remember when you change one of the manifolds you will need to bolt them together and probably take them to a machine shop to be milled.

Charlie Stephens

[Bob C]

In post 83 he said the manifold is broken.


Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Bob C

In post 83 he said the manifold is broken.


Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers.

Thanks Bob. I read it too fast or in the middle of the night and thought it said exhaust manifold. Rereading it I see he said intake.

Charlie Stephens

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.

I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged.

EOG

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.

I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged.

EOG

Be sure to bolt the new manifold to the exhaust manifold and have them machined flat as a set. Not doing it may be the reason the last one broke.

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.

I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged.

EOG

Be sure to bolt the new manifold to the exhaust manifold and have them machined flat as a set.

Charlie Stephens

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Hole is for vacuum wipers, also sometimes used to spray in water mist while motor running to attempt to clean carbon/soot out of the combustion chamber/valves/plugs. Also can spray Marvel Mystery oil or Seafoam in an attempt to free sticky valves. In addition both can be added to gas for sticky valves.


Attach a vacuum gauge there for diagnostics/troubleshooting.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ge+diagnostics
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...t=Vacuum+chart

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If new gaskets use the copper clad.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Be sure to bolt the new manifold to the exhaust manifold and have them machined flat as a set. Not doing it may be the reason the last one broke.

Charlie Stephens

Actually, it broke on the mount to the carburetor. I'd rather avoid any machine shop work, if I can get away without doing that. If there is a gap between the intake and exhaust manifolds, where they bolt together, I'll just use shims between the two. If the opposite is true, I may be able to grind the union down some to lessen the gap. This does not seem like a critical connection......but, I'm all ears on your thoughts. I realize I'm taking a chance on this, but another intake manifold is not too expensive if I screw it up. I don't have lots of $$$ to pay for machining. What are the chances it'll just bolt up and run?????

I realize your suggestion of having machine shop work done is probably the most perfect way to accomplish this but, I do have budget considerations.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.....

My neighbor has volunteered to help me tow the '28 truck to my home.....where I have access to my tools. Probably another week, or so.....before I can tow it here.

EOG

[JKY]

Originally Posted by daren007

I bought a A with B engine thinking I had the best of both worlds. By time it was over I was thousands poorer and the B went to the scrap. Just a heads up.

What happened? I've got an A with a B engine I just bought.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by daren007

I bought a A with B engine thinking I had the best of both worlds. By time it was over I was thousands poorer and the B went to the scrap. Just a heads up.

What is the whole story?

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Actually, it broke on the mount to the carburetor. I'd rather avoid any machine shop work, if I can get away without doing that. If there is a gap between the intake and exhaust manifolds, where they bolt together, I'll just use shims between the two. If the opposite is true, I may be able to grind the union down some to lessen the gap. This does not seem like a critical connection......but, I'm all ears on your thoughts. I realize I'm taking a chance on this, but another intake manifold is not too expensive if I screw it up. I don't have lots of $$$ to pay for machining. What are the chances it'll just bolt up and run?????

I realize your suggestion of having machine shop work done is probably the most perfect way to accomplish this but, I do have budget considerations.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.....:

My neighbor has volunteered to help me tow the '28 truck to my home.....where I have access to my tools. Probably another week, or so.....before I can tow it here.

EOG

It all depends on how big the gaps are.

Charlie Stephens

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

I realize your suggestion of having machine shop work done is probably the most perfect way to accomplish this but, I do have budget considerations.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.....
EOG

I think you should wait to do that repair until you are able to do it correctly. You don't have to use a machine shop unless the pRTS ARE ON A DIFFERENT PLANE. A FRACTIONAL AMOUNT CAN BE ABSORBED BY THE GASKET (oops cap lock). Just use it as is for now and get to know your machine.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I will let others comment on this post as this is based on reading, not actual experience.


Thought I read somewhere that it is permissible to replace one or both manifolds, and not bolt them together. Make sure each are somewhat flat with a fine file, and use the copper clad gaskets, torque bolts to 35 lbs. Most of the time they will be OK. Use the gland rings on the exhaust manifold to prevent # 4 cylinder exhaust manifold sagging issue..


For the carb/Manifold connection, Tillotson carbs have a tendency to warp because they are pot metal, use sand paper taped to a piece of glass to flatten the carb flange (zenith and Tillotson). and on the intake manifold flange surface. Use the thin paper/cardboard style gasket, do not over torque the carb bolts. Not a lot of torque is required since it only has to seal the very low vacuum in the intake manifold.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by daren007

I bought a A with B engine thinking I had the best of both worlds. By time it was over I was thousands poorer and the B went to the scrap. Just a heads up.

Originally Posted by JKY

What happened? I've got an A with a B engine I just bought.

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

What is the whole story?

Charlie Stephens

Yeah......I'd be interested in hearing all about that, too.

EOG

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I will let others comment on this post as this is based on reading, not actual experience.


Thought I read somewhere that it is permissible to replace one or both manifolds, and not bolt them together. Make sure each are somewhat flat with a fine file, and use the copper clad gaskets, torque bolts to 35 lbs. Most of the time they will be OK. Use the gland rings on the exhaust manifold to prevent # 4 cylinder exhaust manifold sagging issue..


For the carb/Manifold connection, Tillotson carbs have a tendency to warp because they are pot metal, use sand paper taped to a piece of glass to flatten the carb flange (zenith and Tillotson). and on the intake manifold flange surface. Use the thin paper/cardboard style gasket, do not over torque the carb bolts. Not a lot of torque is required since it only has to seal the very low vacuum in the intake manifold.

Thank you, 30CCPU......you have been such a great help to me.

It's going to be at least a week before I can get started on this.....later, my friend!

EOG

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

I think you should wait to do that repair until you are able to do it correctly. You don't have to use a machine shop unless the pRTS ARE ON A DIFFERENT PLANE. A FRACTIONAL AMOUNT CAN BE ABSORBED BY THE GASKET (oops cap lock). Just use it as is for now and get to know your machine.

That's something to think about as well, JF......thanks for the input.

I guess I still have the option of doing a better jury-rig to make a seal of carb to intake manifold for now. If I can get it running that way, the manifold machining can always be done later, I suppose.

EOG

[katy]

First you bolt the 2 manifolds together and then check that all the faces (6) that contact the block are in the same plane..