EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

[Charlie Stephens]

Fix the fan. An accident just waiting to happen is close enough to broke. Be sure to buy the aluminum fan new from one of the reputable vendors (like Bratton's). Some of the early ones had blades that were not in a line and had the wrong taper where the fan goes on the water pump shaft. Immediately look for cracks starting to form on your fan blade as replacing it will probably not be your next project.

Charlie Stephens

[noyo55]

Replace the fan--a lot of us who are long term A owners(56 yrs for me same car 3 wives) have found out the hard way that the original fans let go sometimes with expensive consequences. Penny wise pound foolish rather than if it aint broke dont fix it for this one. The B engine is not a direct replacement, if , using the A gearbox you have to use the A bell housing. The B oil pan has the lower part of the flywheel cover built in. It needs to be trimmed off to fit the A bell housing. If you look at the oil pan and it is not trimmed you have an A gearbox, if its still on the oil pan you have a B trans. . Find an old fart that knows how to double clutch have him take you fpor a ride. Double clutching is easy to learn. If you really get it down you can do it without the clutch( only for experianced A drivers try it)

[Charlie Stephens]

When I put a Model B engine in my '31 RDPU I kept the Model A transmission. Attached is a picture showing the strip of metal I left when I cut off the rear part of the Model B oil pan. I didn't want to try removing the spot welds and risking a leak.

Charlie Stephens

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Ok, thanks CHuDWah


BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color.



One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that.


eog

Model Ts I believe were negative ground, can not remember why Henry decided to make Model As positive ground.


From teh factory pickups were not fabric/vinyl covered from teh factory. They are considered a utility/commercial type vehicle, Henry decided it was not needed. If you have cardboard/ semi flexible door cards and kick panels, they could be original, quite a find especially if they are in good shape.. I have original black door cards but no kick panels. My truck is a late 30 but the door cards are in poor shape - pieces of the cards missing, very worn.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

You guys are such a help.....thanks!

I'm working up an order at Snyder's for:

two blade aluminum fan
fan knock off tool
fan belt

Any words of wisdom, suggestions, before I place this order?

What about spark plugs......get them at the local auto parts store?

Where can I get an original gear shift knob?

eog

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

What plugs were in it that you took out?


Tip - when replacing the fan place cardboard against the radiator fins/core to prevent accidental damage.

[1930artdeco]

You can plugs at the local store (get the champion W18?)or you can spring for the repop Champion 3X plugs (I think they run better). As far as shift knob, swap meet, ebay, snyders, Berts should have an original if that is what you want.


Mike

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

What plugs were in it that you took out?


Tip - when replacing the fan place cardboard against the radiator fins/core to prevent accidental damage.

Hello 30CCPU.......

I'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, I'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer......

I don't know what plugs were installed. To date, I've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model B engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model A engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions?

The order to Snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob.

Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread.

What's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at Snyders. Since I have a model B engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges?????

eog

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

You can plugs at the local store (get the champion W18?)or you can spring for the repop Champion 3X plugs (I think they run better). As far as shift knob, swap meet, ebay, snyders, Berts should have an original if that is what you want.


Mike

Hello Mike.......would these plugs be the same as for a model B engine?

Thank you for responding.

eog

[Bob C]

The plugs are the same. You will have to remove the water pump or
the radiator to change the fan.


Bob

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by eccentric old guy

hello 30ccpu.......

i'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, i'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer...... for a little added room, you can take the radiator support rods loose and tilt the radiator, involves draining a little coolant so you can take the upper radiator hose loose.

i don't know what plugs were installed. To date, i've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model b engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model a engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions?


iam not familiar with the b motor, would hate to guess. Hopefully other can chime in if the same as the a motor.


for the a motor closest plugs to the original champion c3 plugs (the c3s are expensive) are champion w18. If doing a lot of touring and high speed driving some use motorcraft tt10 or 3076, they run a little cooler and are inexpensive.

the order to snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob.

Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread.:d

what's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at snyders. Since i have a model b engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges?????


to make the as as inexpensive as they could for the average joe in the 1920s, a lot of things are left out. Very little luxury in an a. But were designed with maintenance to be reliable for their day. Gauges. Heaters, one brake tail light, etc.


the a is a gravity fed oil system, very little oil pressure where the guage probe typically installed. The gauge only reads 2lbs or less, maybe up to 4 - 5 lbs in cooler/cold weather and then decreases as the oil/motor warms. I do not use one, but others do.


i do have a coolant gauge, had overheating issues, found it very helpful in diagnosing my problems, plus is handy if you plan on being in parades. Best to know if it is close to overheating and pulling over and letting the motor cool down, instead of waiting for it to overheat - causing possible motor damage.


the probe should go in the upper radiator water outlet neck, which means you need to change out the neck with one of these.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/productdetail/a-8251-ax_drilled-water-outlet-iron-28-29?fromcategory=searchbykeyword
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/productdetail/a-8251-bx_drilled-water-outlet-iron-30-31?fromcategory=searchbykeyword
the angle on the neck is different between the above 2, you will have to choose the correct one.
or this, does not look original, but still looks nice, allows for easily adding thermostat.
http://vintageprecision.com/products...ing/index.html


the 1st 2 you can add a thermostat by putting it in the upper radiator hose. If you decide to add a thermostat, ask and we can go into modifying the thermostat for additional coolant bypass. Without additional bypass there can be certain conditions that may cause cylinder 4 to overheat and cause damage.


either way i recommend using distilled water for coolant, with a bottle of napa 1300 rust inhibitor. Then after you know your cooling system does not overheat or leak consider going to 50/50 green antifreeze. There is debate on antifreeze, but after talking to a couple of motor rebuilders 50/50 is my preference. The major downside to antifreeze is it will damage your paint if it leaks or overheats. This includes if you have a water pump that drips from the water pump shaft, gets blown all over by the cooling fan.


and then also perhaps install a coolant filter, and the thermostat. In cooler weather with a cooling system in prime shape the motor does not reach proper operating temp. This can contribute to oil contamination, perhaps a little decline in gas mileage. The coolant filter keeps rust/junk from getting into your radiator and plugging it up.


this is the typical coolant filter used. Most use the clear one.
https://ganofilters.com/


eog

111

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Forgot to mention, when you take the sediment bowl off, there is a filter screen,. It is possible it may be varnished up, clean it with brake clean, hold it up to a light to make sure its not clogged up with varnish.

[supergnat]

The generator appears to be an original version so I really doubt the car has been converted to 12 volts. Supergnat

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Hello 30CCPU.......

I'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, I'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer......

I don't know what plugs were installed. To date, I've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model B engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model A engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions?

The order to Snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob.

Your choice but if you're not having the truck judged, I'd keep the aftermarket one - it's "period" and kinda cool. Whatever, don't trash it - it's worth a few bucks.

Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread.

What's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at Snyders. Since I have a model B engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges?????

You'll get at least as many opinions as people you ask. Mine is it may not help but it won't hurt. The parts vendors have gauges and some nifty brackets that fit existing bolts so you don't have to drill extra holes - or you could get a fancy Dunn Aristocrat.



eog

...

[Eccentric Old Guy]

I went out to the Model A this afternoon, and noticed that the red lead is connected to the starter motor, and the black lead is connected to the bell housing. I searched on FordBarn and found that it preferable to connect the positive to the frame and the negative to the starter motor.

Anyway, I'm wondering if the previous owner may have connected the battery as negative ground because of the color coding of the battery cables......? My question is what would have been the consequences of hooking up a battery incorrectly, and then attempting to start it?

I also went to the auto parts store, and they closed up early today. I'll go back tomorrow and pick up a 6v "group one" battery, and drain the gas. Hopefully, I can get it running, and bring it home for further inspection and some routine maintenance.

Any input is welcome......thank you.

eog

[J Franklin]

Don't just go by the cable color, but where they attach both to the car and the battery.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

double post......
eog

[Y-Blockhead]

Note that the battery posts are different size, the positive post being a larger diameter. This might help you determine which cable is ground and power.

[J Franklin]

Most battery are marked + & - also

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Am not 100% sure what will happen if attempting to start with battery hooked up backwards.


This is my best guess on original design components; all lights - not polarity sensitive , electric motor Wipers - not polarity sensitive, starter - not polarity sensitive, horn - not polarity sensitive, Stock generator with stock design cutout - will probably stop charging since it will lose polarization but will not be damaged (is easy to re-polarize), Ignition - will still work but at reduced voltage output/spark due to the coil polarity being incorrect.


Reversing polarity on non stock design charging systems is where you have to be careful because electronics may be damaged - Diode style cutout, regulators instead of cutout. If converted to alternator - I believe these are polarity sensitive since they have integrated regulation/electronics and will be damaged.


From the factory - Starter cable is always red. Ground cable is always a large flat woven wire uninsulated cable going to the frame (unless some one has modified this). As post 78 indicates the battery posts are different sizes so if the A has been converted to - ground, the cable colors remain the same and cable clamps are changed since they are also different sizes.


Since the starter is grounded mechanically where it mounts, its ground path back to the battery is also through other mechanical ground connections - motor pans/motor mounts etc. Over time corrosion/etc. can affect the quality of the starter ground path and cause the starter to turn over slower. So a modification is done where an additional ground cable is added (typically a 0 gauge cable) between the tranny/bell housing to the battery/frame ground connection.


Once you have the battery installed and before turning on the ignition, turn on your headlights and check the ammeter. It should show discharge/negative. If it shows positive battery is probably in backwards.


If not familiar with the starting procedures thoroughly read/understand what is in the Model A Operator/user manual. Do not over use the choke. The choke rod is used to prime the intake /cylinders with fuel/air for only a couple of compressions and then released/pushed in. The car should start when you release the choke rod. Do not think you should have to pull it out and hold it out until it starts - this will flood the motor. When starting it is important to have the left lever, spark advance, fully up. When it starts running immediately pull the lever down 1/2 - 1/3 its travel downwards.


Check your messages.