30 - 31 Coupe Spare Tire Support Bracket

[dmaxweb]

Brattons part #1970 states for 30/31. What was used for 29.

[SteveB31]

Just the vertical brace in the middle behind the outer panel.

[wrndln]

I assume dmacweb is referring to a rumble seat 28/29 coupe. Steve, are you positive the 28/29 coupes or roadsters didn't use the part shown in the first post? I have a 28 roadster that is going to have a rumble seat and a rear mounted spare. I need to know for sure whether the part is or isn't used on the curved inner panel.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

Just the vertical brace in the middle behind the outer panel.

Thanks Steve.
It turns out my 30 coupe has all 29 rumble parts.

[big deuce]

I removed this bracket from a '29 Coupe rumble seat car...

[Steve Plucker]

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Originally Posted by dmaxweb

Brattons part #1970 states for 30/31. What was used for 29.

Same thing.

Pluck

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by wrndln

I assume dmacweb is referring to a rumble seat 28/29 coupe. Steve, are you positive the 28/29 coupes or roadsters didn't use the part shown in the first post? I have a 28 roadster that is going to have a rumble seat and a rear mounted spare. I need to know for sure whether the part is or isn't used on the curved inner panel.

The part in question in post one is also used for 1928 Roadster with rumble seat.

The repro part is aluminum...the original was steel...get an original as it already has the the holes for the rivet atachment to the rear floor pan.

Pluck

[dmaxweb]

In my case, it's a '30 coupe but has '29 rumble parts. The curved inner panel does not have the hole for the brace bolt to the spare tire carrier. The radius curve of the repro aluminum brace does not fit tight to the curved panel. It's possible the inner curved panel is a repro and/or the curve of the repro brace differs from an original. I don't have an original brace to compare to the repro. If need be, I can get one but at the very least, that will require cutting a hole in the inner panel.

This all started when I just recently noticed the spare carrier did not seem solid to the body. When I checked, the bottom of the vertical bracket was not connected. I put in a couple of bolts and obviously it's much more solid now. That's when I noticed it did not have the curved brace. Before buying parts and doing mods, I'd like to know if the brace is really needed in my situation. Even with the bottom of vertical bracket loose, the spare has not fallen off since I've had the car. It's a driver and my inclination is to not add it.

[wrndln]

I have it from good sources that original curved inner panels have a "depressed" area near the upper part of the curved inner panel near the vertical bracket inside the panel below the lid. This changes the curve of the curved inner panel to fit the curved bracket and lineup with the hole in the vertical bracket inside the outer panel below the lid. This is to better align the curved stiffener/panel to the hole for the upper bolt that attaches the spare tire carrier. Repro panels don't have either the square hole cutout for the bolt spare tire bracket or the depressed area. It would require some work to add the depressed area and properly cut the square hole. I believe like several others here, ALL coupe and roadsters with rumble seats SHOULD have the curved bracket riveted to the panel to provide better support for the spare tire.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by wrndln

I have it from good sources that original curved inner panels have a "depressed" area near the upper part of the curved inner panel near the vertical bracket inside the panel below the lid. This changes the curve of the curved inner panel to fit the curved bracket and lineup with the hole in the vertical bracket inside the outer panel below the lid. This is to better align the curved stiffener/panel to the hole for the upper bolt that attaches the spare tire carrier. Repro panels don't have either the square hole cutout for the bolt spare tire bracket or the depressed area. It would require some work to add the depressed area and properly cut the square hole. I believe like several others here, ALL coupe and roadsters with rumble seats SHOULD have the curved bracket riveted to the panel to provide better support for the spare tire.

You are so right on that one Rusty! You couldn't of said it any better than that!

[dmaxweb]

I could be wrong but I seem to recall the stamped depression was added to compensate for the switch to the tall (9") rear panel. Mine has 7" panel.

Either way, everything is assembled and painted so taking panels apart is not a viable option.

[Randy in ca]

Could be mistaken, but I believe that the curved "banana" brace was used on all rumble seat equipped vehicles except for those produced in the first couple of months in 1928.

I doubt very much that you have the short version of the outside panel on a 30-31 coupe. The panel needs to be measured on the outside of the body, as it's impossible to measure the total height on the inside when the inner panel is in place. I think originals were about 9-1/2" measured on the ends and about 1/4" taller in the middle.

[Kevin in NJ]

All rumbles used the same part. The original curved inner panel would have a square hole for the bracket.

You should not need to buy the repro it is a fairly common part out in the wild. A good curved inner panel is a different story.

The repro curved panel is not right in many directions. You will have to adjust the position so the bracket mounts tight to the lower rear panel. If not then you will distort the panels when you bolt it together. I needed to beat a bulge into my repro panel to get it to the right position.

https://www.cabriolet.piklefactory.com/Rumblelid.htm

[dmaxweb]

Are the originals forged steel?

[wrndln]

dmaxweb wrote:

I could be wrong but I seem to recall the stamped depression was added to compensate for the switch to the tall (9") rear panel. Mine has 7" panel.

Either way, everything is assembled and painted so taking panels apart is not a viable option


Me

I believe you are correct in that the shorter 28/29 coupe panels below the lid didn't need a depression in the curved inner panel to line up the banana bracket with the hole in the vertical bracket. However, Randy in ca wrote: a 30 coupe has the tall lower panel. I agree with him, 30 coupes definitely have the taller 9 1/2" panel.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

Are the originals forged steel?

Yes!

[dmaxweb]

...

[dmaxweb]

Is the inner curved panel only held in place by machine screws/nuts? The rumble lid is still on so it's hard to get pictures.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by wrndln

dmaxweb wrote:

I could be wrong but I seem to recall the stamped depression was added to compensate for the switch to the tall (9") rear panel. Mine has 7" panel.

Either way, everything is assembled and painted so taking panels apart is not a viable option


Me

I believe you are correct in that the shorter 28/29 coupe panels below the lid didn't need a depression in the curved inner panel to line up the banana bracket with the hole in the vertical bracket. However, Randy in ca wrote: a 30 coupe has the tall lower panel. I agree with him, 30 coupes definitely have the taller 9 1/2" panel.

My '30 coupe has a '29 lid. It also has the round tube rear bumper brace used thru '29.

[dmaxweb]

...

[Kevin in NJ]

Dmaxweb

You have a early repo inner curved panel. You can tell by the wavy edges. None of its shape is correct.

Your rumble lid catch should be held in by countersunk screws so they wont scratch the rumble opening. The bump area looks funny too, like it was damaged and repaired maybe.

The curved inner panel was held on with oval head screws on the front and rear edge and pan head on the side. Likely the side does not match with the original holes and there are no holes in the panel anyway.

Your car is likely put together with various parts that the person had laying around. A lot of people do not know there are 2 types of lids. I did not know that and bought an perfect rumble lid. When I tried to fit it on my 31 I learned about the bump being in the way.

Anyway, the curved inner panel you have is likely going to 'interesting' to get the banana brace to fit and work. The angle of the panel in the photo just does not look right. But that could be the photo angle.

Look under the rumble seat riser, do you have the rumble stop braces in place? If not you will need to add them or the stops will likely cause damage.

So you have a common problem. The rumble is just put together by someone that had no clue and bad parts. One year at Hershey I looked at all the rumble seat cars as I was learning how to set up mine. I found only one car was done properly.

I assume you want functional go have fun in your car. So my recommendations. Look close at the curved panel you have. See if it looks like you can get the banana bracket to fit right to take the bolt at the proper angle. There is a chance you may need to get a new curved inner panel and make adjustments so it works. Keep in mind the rectangular hole needs to be cut into the panel. I would also put some screws along the sides.
Look under for the rumble stop braces and add them if needed. Make sure the ones you have are well screwed in place. The originals were spot welded, but you need function and screws work. I would also change the screws on face of the lid to countersunk so they are less likely to damage the body.

[dmaxweb]

I need to bend the end of the curved brace about 3/8" to match the curve of the inner panel. I understand the brace is forged but I assume using some heat to bend this small amout is OK.

[dmaxweb]

...

[jw hash]

I just check a original, to see what they are made out of. it is cast iron, that did surprise me because ford forged a lot of small parts like that. if you use heat you might be able to bend it without it breaking in too,

[Steve Plucker]

Why ruin it by bending it?

Put some shims in the void area for now till you can find an original pan that will correspond to the original bend!

Pluck

[dmaxweb]

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Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Dmaxweb

You have a early repo inner curved panel. You can tell by the wavy edges. None of its shape is correct.

Your rumble lid catch should be held in by countersunk screws so they wont scratch the rumble opening. The bump area looks funny too, like it was damaged and repaired maybe.

The curved inner panel was held on with oval head screws on the front and rear edge and pan head on the side. Likely the side does not match with the original holes and there are no holes in the panel anyway.

Your car is likely put together with various parts that the person had laying around. A lot of people do not know there are 2 types of lids. I did not know that and bought an perfect rumble lid. When I tried to fit it on my 31 I learned about the bump being in the way.

Anyway, the curved inner panel you have is likely going to 'interesting' to get the banana brace to fit and work. The angle of the panel in the photo just does not look right. But that could be the photo angle.

Look under the rumble seat riser, do you have the rumble stop braces in place? If not you will need to add them or the stops will likely cause damage.

So you have a common problem. The rumble is just put together by someone that had no clue and bad parts. One year at Hershey I looked at all the rumble seat cars as I was learning how to set up mine. I found only one car was done properly.

I assume you want functional go have fun in your car. So my recommendations. Look close at the curved panel you have. See if it looks like you can get the banana bracket to fit right to take the bolt at the proper angle. There is a chance you may need to get a new curved inner panel and make adjustments so it works. Keep in mind the rectangular hole needs to be cut into the panel. I would also put some screws along the sides.
Look under for the rumble stop braces and add them if needed. Make sure the ones you have are well screwed in place. The originals were spot welded, but you need function and screws work. I would also change the screws on face of the lid to countersunk so they are less likely to damage the body.

1. I have a replacement latch with countersunk screws to put on.
2. The picture of the banana brace in post #8 is a repro aluminum. I now have an original. More on that below.
3. The rumble seat lid stop support braces are present and secured solidly with hex bolts/nuts.
4. The curved inner panel (repro I guess) is held in place fore and aft with round head screws. The sides have screws into the original holes in the side brackets.
5. I drilled a 1-1/4" hole in the curved inner panel. A bolt through this hole fits straight through the vertical spare bracket and into the the spare carrier. The round hole is just big enough to use a socket to tighten the bolt.
6. Now the banana brace. I have a 1/4" thick steel spacer on the big end. This aligns it perfectly with the bolt hole and tight to both the vertical bracket and the top of the curve on the inner panel. However, this results in a 3/8" gap at the small end of the banana. I can use several washers stacked to take up this space and therefore no need to try bending the original steel banana.

I'll get some pictures later today.

[dmaxweb]

Pictures

I plan on using small (#10) hex bolts to secure the banana brace to the inner panel using existing 3 rivet holes with the one on the narrow end going through the washers.

I think this will be quite secure especially considering that it did not have a banana brace at all for who knows how many years.

[Steve Plucker]

I understand that there is a gap between the two braces as to why the spacer, but my question is "why"?...There really should not be?? Kevin?????

Pluck

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

Pictures

I plan on using small (#10) hex bolts to secure the banana brace to the inner panel using existing 3 rivet holes with the one on the narrow end going through the washers.

I think this will be quite secure especially considering that it did not have a banana brace at all for who knows how many years.

-
I think your solution is the best way to go. The most potential stress on the banana brace will be at the thick end where you'll have it flush and firmly attached and on the thin end, even with the washer spacing, it should be more than adequately secured.

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

I understand that there is a gap between the two braces as to why the spacer, but my question is "why"?...There really should not be?? Kevin?????

Pluck

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As indicated earlier, on the stock inner curved panels the mounting area for the "banana" bracket is recessed in order for everything to line up with the bolt from the spare tire carrier. The curve of the reproduction panel might be somewhat of a factor in this regard, but the fact that the "banana" mounting area is not recessed on these panels is by far the most significant factor. This applies to all 28-31 Roadsters and 1930-31 Coupes with rumble seats.

-

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by Randy in ca

-
I think your solution is the best way to go. The most potential stress on the banana brace will be at the thick end where you'll have it flush and firmly attached and on the thin end, even with the washer spacing, it should be more than adequately secured.

Done. The spare carrier is nice and solid now.
Thanks to all!