Float Level

[Steve Rinaldo]

I have been trying to set the float level on my Zenith-1 carb and am having no luck. I can't seem to get the level higher that 3/4 in. I have tried different float sealing washers and have tried to bend the float arm. That is all I know to try. Are their any other things I might try to raise the level. Thanks, Steve

[Ron/IA]

1930 coupe - I never thought of float weight being a factor when setting the gas level. Very informative comment.

However, I too use the sight level method to set mine.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Steve,

FWIW:

Many today report problems of Model A's stalling on sharp turns & stops at stop signs and/or red lights where the cause is often mentioned as the "Zenith" carburetor bowl fuel level being set too high.

Might be interesting to note that many modern written articles today still recommend Ford's 5/8" dimension from top of fuel level to top of metal on the "bottom" half of the carburetor.

However, also interesting is Mr. Rex Reheis mentioning in the book by Mr. Gordon Biggar, where he recommends lowering the fuel level an additional 5/16", (i.e., down to 15/16"); e.g., 5/8" + 5/16" = 15/16".

As written, he states that a bowl full of fuel is not necessary because the fuel being fed to the Main & Cap Jets is drawn via suction from the lower 1/4 of the bowl; hence, he suggests adding "red" fiber gaskets under the float valve to attain a lower fuel level.

Some vendors catalogs state that todays special made "red" float gaskets do not weep or leak fuel like others of a different color.

Something to check as stated in the aforementioned book is to turn the top half of the carburetor upside down to verify that the float is also level in the "left to right" transverse direction.

If you immerse your float in a pot or pan of boiling water & you see bubbles coming from out of the float, your float is leaking & will sink when loaded with fuel & will "never" float.

Others can add good suggestions/experiences -- hope this helps.

[rscardina]

Les Andrews' book recommends to measure 1" from the top of the float ring to the edge of the body surface (which would tighten down on top of the bowl) on the top half of the carb while it is upside down. It appears that Les Andrews recommending something other than what I am reading on the Barn.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by rscardina

Les Andrews' book recommends to measure 1" from the top of the float ring to the edge of the body surface (which would tighten down on top of the bowl) on the top half of the carb while it is upside down. It appears that Les Andrews recommending something other than what I am reading on the Barn.

Is "float ring" the seam on the float?

Les is calling for a physical float height, while the previous dimension is the liquid level, thus two different numbers.

[H. L. Chauvin]

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The "something other" in reply #5 may be similar to one witnessing that Model A Religious Advice is similar to Biblical Religious Advice in that we will always have different pastors who claim to preach the one & only truth -- appears similar sometimes.

[Steve Rinaldo]

Here is some additional information that I measured this morning:
1. I have sanded the float valve seal to .027. This raised the level to about .680.
2. I am using a clear glass bowl and am measuring from the top of the glass to the liquid level. I am using water.
3. I tried a Grosse Jet which is noticeably shorter to full close that the style supplied in the kit. This helped some.
4. At this measurement the float is at a severe angle nothing like the Les Andrews picture.
5. Which way would you bend the arm to increase the liquid level. I have tried both ways. away from the float itself on too the float?
I am still getting nowhere. Thanks for the tips. I'll keep you posted as to what happens. Thanks, Steve

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Steve,

Do not use water -- different density than gas , different float level -- go to the salt lake near Salt Lake City, Utah & witness this with a different liquid density, i.e., you cannot sink in the salt lake with two (2) Model A crankshafts tied around your waist.

[Tom Endy]

The fuel level setting 5\8" down from the bottom edge of the top casting has worked for me. I set the level with a test stand I made. I can clearly see the float level and can mark it on the glass and monitor it for a while to see if it is creeping.

My experience has been that floats that have been molested by bending the arm to set the level do not work well. A new float from Bratton's has always dialed right in with just one gasket washer under the float valve.

Tom Endy

[rscardina]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Is "float ring" the seam on the float?

Les is calling for a physical float height, while the previous dimension is the liquid level, thus two different numbers.

Yes. According to the Les Andrews book the float ring is the seam. It appears that the fuel level is quite a bit higher than the seam in the pic posted by Tom Endy. That explains the difference. The fuel level should be 3/8" higher than the seam in the float. Does this sound reasonable?

[rscardina]

Here is the image from Les' book.

[johnbuckley]

Steve, the picture in the Les Adnrew's book is a good rule of thumb guide. If you're set up isn't looking like that then something's not right ( as you've found out!)- either 1) float valve too long / not seating high enough in housing or old gaskets left in housing 2) hanger incorrect or hinge bent/ friction preventing closure. 3) float incorrect . ( Contrary to what you're experiencing, I often find grose jets are a little too short and need two washers to get them to about the right height )

[TDO]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Steve,

FWIW:

Many today report problems of Model A's stalling on sharp turns & stops at stop signs and/or red lights where the cause is often mentioned as the "Zenith" carburetor bowl fuel level being set too high.

Might be interesting to note that many modern written articles today still recommend Ford's 5/8" dimension from top of fuel level to top of metal on the "bottom" half of the carburetor.

However, also interesting is Mr. Rex Reheis mentioning in the book by Mr. Gordon Biggar, where he recommends lowering the fuel level an additional 5/16", (i.e., down to 15/16"); e.g., 5/8" + 5/16" = 15/16".

As written, he states that a bowl full of fuel is not necessary because the fuel being fed to the Main & Cap Jets is drawn via suction from the lower 1/4 of the bowl; hence, he suggests adding "red" fiber gaskets under the float valve to attain a lower fuel level.

Some vendors catalogs state that todays special made "red" float gaskets do not weep or leak fuel like others of a different color.

Something to check as stated in the aforementioned book is to turn the top half of the carburetor upside down to verify that the float is also level in the "left to right" transverse direction.

If you immerse your float in a pot or pan of boiling water & you see bubbles coming from out of the float, your float is leaking & will sink when loaded with fuel & will "never" float.

Others can add good suggestions/experiences -- hope this helps.

H.L. , Have you tried the setting that Rex's recommends. If so how did it work.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi TDO,

1. At present I have a B-1 Zenith, Model B carburetor on my Model A with a Model B distributor; however, I carry a rebuilt Zenith A Carburetor & a rebuilt A distributor where both can be changed out back to original in a few minutes.

2. I kept the original pop-out switch & original armored cable where the original threaded part can easily screw into the A distributor.

3. On normal rush stops at stop signs or red lights, it was aggravating that the engine would die with either the Zenith A or the Zenith B carburetor with a high float setting of 5/8".

4. After reading Mr. Rex's float setting recommendations of 15/16" I readjusted only the B float first from 5/8" to 3/4" & noticed an improvement on stops; so I again readjusted the B float setting to 15/16" & noticed a big improvement where the engine would "not" die on normal stops. (I still did not try it on an emergency stop with all 4 wheels locked).

4. I intend to experiment with changing to the same recommended 15/16" float setting on my spare Zenith A carburetor.

5. I think Mr. Gordon Bigger did an excellent job of documenting Mr. Rex Reheis's many years of experience in rebuilding Model A & B carburetors -- this book is very well written with lots of intricate details & instructions on how to make hand made carburetor repair tools.

6. I drove my 1930 Coupe for 38 years with my untouched, (never disassembled), Sears Marvel carburetor & got 28 mpg. Never had a problem with engine dying on stops. My 1939 Town Sedan came with a Tillotston carburetor where the engine never died on stops.

7. Ford later made the Model B, B-2 carburetor which had a float baffle to prevent the engine from dying on sharp turns & stops.

8. I think making & experimenting with soldering brass sheet metal baffles in a Zenith Model A carburetor bowl would be an interesting project to try to stop fuel from sloshing around in a round bowl -- like the difference one witnessed when one inserted the metal dividers in a metal ice tray ....... What ? ...... What is a metal ice tray? ... This could be asked today now that refrigerators have ice makers. The Model A gas tank also has baffles to prevent fuel from sloshing around.

Hope this helps.

[H. L. Chauvin]

A. Just in case anyone is interested in adjusting the float "fuel" level on a Model B carburetor, Mr. Rex's & Mr. Renner's recommendation for float height "adjustment" is to add washers under the "Model A" Zenith float valve; however, on a "Zenith B" carburetor, float height adjustment is recommended by both as to "not" add additional washers under the B float valve; but, to install the float valve on the single, standard float valve washer, then bend the B float to achieve the float "fuel" level height desired.

B. Mr. Rex, (84 years old in the book while rebuilding Model A carburetors for over 30 years), states that through experimentation, he found that on sudden stops, the Zenith Carburetor Main & Cap Jets become starved as the fuel in the Zenith's round bowls surges forward; but that also, the Main & Cap Jets becomes flooded as the fuel surge instantly reverses towards the rear of the bowl; hence, a lower level of fuel in the Zenith's round bottom bowls can prevent this fuel surge combined with a potential for a Main & Cap Jet flooding condition & engines stalling. He recommends float adjustments to obtain "fuel" levels of 15/16" below the carburetor halves for both Zenith A & B carburetors.

D. On a B-1 Zenith carburetor, I found that if one installs an existing original B-1 float with a new Snyder's B float valve with a Snyder's new B washer, one can install the float, turn the carburetor "top" half upside down, bend & adjust the float, then read the dimension from the carburetor's mating gasket joint to the uppermost part of the float, & when this dimension reads 15/16", the fuel's float level will be set for the recommended 15/16" fuel level; i.e., when the carburetor is installed, the level of the top of the fuel in the B carburetor will be 15/16" below the joint between the two (2) carburetor halves.

E. Found no problems by lowering the fuel level downward 5/16"; (i.e., from 5/8" down to 15/16") on my Zenith B carburetor; but did notice no engine stall at stops -- I'll try same on my Zenith A carburetor soon.

****** Just another experience to share. ****

F. Also please note that the "larger" clear tube on the float gage sold by Renners is more accurate & easier to read the exact float level in the "center" of the clear tube than that of the small clear tubes sold by vendors.

G. The meniscus, (surface tension) associated with the smaller clear tube throws the smaller tube's readings off by about 1/16" according to Mr. Renner. Mr. Rex also suggest using Mr. Renner's fuel gage for better accuracy.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

A. Just in case anyone is interested in adjusting the float "fuel" level on a Model B carburetor, Mr. Rex's & Mr. Renner's recommendation for float height "adjustment" is to add washers under the "Model A" Zenith float valve; however, on a "Zenith B" carburetor, float height adjustment is recommended by both as to "not" add additional washers under the B float valve; but, to install the float valve on the single, standard float valve washer, then bend the B float to achieve the float "fuel" level height desired.

B. Mr. Rex, (84 years old in the book while rebuilding Model A carburetors for over 30 years), states that through experimentation, he found that on sudden stops, the Zenith Carburetor Main & Cap Jets become starved as the fuel in the Zenith's round bowls surges forward; but that also, the Main & Cap Jets becomes flooded as the fuel surge instantly reverses towards the rear of the bowl; hence, a lower level of fuel in the Zenith's round bottom bowls can prevent this fuel surge combined with a potential for a Main & Cap Jet flooding condition & engines stalling. He recommends float adjustments to obtain "fuel" levels of 15/16" below the carburetor halves for both Zenith A & B carburetors.

D. On a B-1 Zenith carburetor, I found that if one installs an existing original B-1 float with a new Snyder's B float valve with a Snyder's new B washer, one can install the float, turn the carburetor "top" half upside down, bend & adjust the float, then read the dimension from the carburetor's mating gasket joint to the uppermost part of the float, & when this dimension reads 15/16", the fuel's float level will be set for the recommended 15/16" fuel level; i.e., when the carburetor is installed, the level of the top of the fuel in the B carburetor will be 15/16" below the joint between the two (2) carburetor halves.

E. Found no problems by lowering the fuel level downward 5/16"; (i.e., from 5/8" down to 15/16") on my Zenith B carburetor; but did notice no engine stall at stops -- I'll try same on my Zenith A carburetor soon.

****** Just another experience to share. ****

F. Also please note that the "larger" clear tube on the float gage sold by Renners is more accurate & easier to read the exact float level in the "center" of the clear tube than that of the small clear tubes sold by vendors.

G. The meniscus, (surface tension) associated with the smaller clear tube throws the smaller tube's readings off by about 1/16" according to Mr. Renner. Mr. Rex also suggest using Mr. Renner's fuel gage for better accuracy.

i have mentioned that many times renners gauge is much better..

[TDO]

Hi H.L. Chauvin, Thanks for the response to my question. I also run a Zenith B on my coupe. I will try the 15/16 float setting. I hope it doesn't have any affect in these mountains here in West Virginia.
TDO

[Steve Rinaldo]

I took the carb to our local Model A genius and got a lesson on how to set the Float. Seems to work OK. The only thing is that there is a slight stumble off idle. I'm sure that playing with the mixture and timing I can eliminate this problem. I did weigh the float and it is 31 grams as it is supposed to be. Thanks for all your help. The procedure he showed me was like the Les Andrews book, except that the front of the float is tilted up slightly to compensate for the installed tilt of the carb. I never noticed this before. Steve

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Steve Rinaldo

I took the carb to our local Model A genius and got a lesson on how to set the Float. Seems to work OK. The only thing is that there is a slight stumble off idle. I'm sure that playing with the mixture and timing I can eliminate this problem. I did weigh the float and it is 31 grams as it is supposed to be. Thanks for all your help. The procedure he showed me was like the Les Andrews book, except that the front of the float is tilted up slightly to compensate for the installed tilt of the carb. I never noticed this before. Steve

If you look at the installed carb I think you will find that it sits level
because the intake manifold flange is at an angle.

Bob