Mikes Oil Filter question

[Model A Ron]

I recently put on the Mike's valve cover oil filter and I find the oil drains back into the pan making the car read above the F mark on the dip stick. This caused the car to drip oil when it did not in the past.

Would I be better off using a smaller filter (if so what filter) or should I go with a 90 deg. adapter? The one on Snyder's is a bit pricey at $149.95 so if anyone knows of a more cost effective option please let me know.

Thanks
Ron

[GeneBob]

E-bay? It is funny, these used to be easy to find pretty cheap but my quick search only found expensive versions.
The engine builder that I deal with doesn't like oil filters on the Model A engine with the stock oiling system as it puts too much pressure drop into the system.

[alexiskai]

It's been a while since I installed my filter, but I'm not sure what you mean about it draining into the pan. If I recall correctly, the copper line takes the oil from the oil pump coming into the valve chamber, re-routes it into the filter, and then the filtered oil exits back into the valve chamber. Eventually the chamber gets full enough that oil flows down the return pipe back into the oil pan tray, as well as draining through holes in the floor of the chamber. Which part of that process is working differently for you?

The purpose of using a very large filter is so that the Model A's minimal oil pressure will still be enough to push the oil through the filter medium. If you shrink the filter (not even sure you can find a compatible model), you increase the pressure necessary to make the filter work, which might cause the oil to find a path of less resistance.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I recently put on the Mike's valve cover oil filter and I find the oil drains back into the pan making the car read above the F mark on the dip stick. This caused the car to drip oil when it did not in the past.

Would I be better off using a smaller filter (if so what filter) or should I go with a 90 deg. adapter? The one on Snyder's is a bit pricey at $149.95 so if anyone knows of a more cost effective option please let me know.

Thanks
Ron

How can the oil possibly drain back? The filter inlet is at the top, above the oil level in the filter. That just does not make sense.

How much oil do you have in the engine? Maybe try running ½ qt. less.

You may be able to find a 90° adaptor at a salvage yard. They were on V-8 Mustangs and other models.

Originally Posted by GeneBob

The engine builder that I deal with doesn't like oil filters on the Model A engine with the stock oiling system as it puts too much pressure drop into the system.

This does not make sense either. The Model A has a positive displacement oil pump and can easily overcome any back pressure a filter may have. All it is doing is pumping oil thru the filter and dumping it into the vale chamber.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

It's been a while since I installed my filter, but I'm not sure what you mean about it draining into the pan. If I recall correctly, the copper line takes the oil from the oil pump coming into the valve chamber, re-routes it into the filter, and then the filtered oil exits back into the valve chamber. Eventually the chamber gets full enough that oil flows down the return pipe back into the oil pan tray, as well as draining through holes in the floor of the chamber. Which part of that process is working differently for you?

The purpose of using a very large filter is so that the Model A's minimal oil pressure will still be enough to push the oil through the filter medium. If you shrink the filter (not even sure you can find a compatible model), you increase the pressure necessary to make the filter work, which might cause the oil to find a path of less resistance.

Ok let me add more detail. I start the car with the NAPA filter provided with the kit. The oil filter fills with oil and works fine however after shutting the car down and waiting for a bit the oil level is about 3/4 of a quart low. This would be the oil now in the filter so I add 3/4 of a quart. When I go check on the car in the morning the level in the pan is high when I check the dip stick. Run the car and shut it off and I am back to a normal level. The oil in the filter must be draining back into the pan over time or an I missing something? Prior to adding the filter an oil reading taken 10 minutes after engine shutdown or the next day was about the same.

Ron

[J Franklin]

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Don't add the extra oil and you will be just fine.

[alexiskai]

I don't think it can be the filter. The copper tube from the oil pump line enters the filter assembly at the top, so even if the filter didn't have an anti-drainback valve (which it does), gravity would prevent oil in the "dirty" side of the filter from draining back into the oil line and thence to the pan. After shutdown, some quantity of oil will continue to wick through the filter medium and into the core, exiting back to the valve chamber, but not the entire 3/4 qt.

Didn't you say earlier that you had to replace your oil return pipe when you bought the filter kit? That means you previously had the version where the return pipe is located higher on the valve cover, which means that previously, your car would have retained more oil in the valve chamber when the car shut down. I wonder if that's the reason for the changed behavior.

[Brentwood Bob]

I think that the oil in the valve chamber drains into the crank case over night.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

That's certainly a mystery. I don't think it can be the filter, though. The copper tube from the oil pump line enters the filter assembly at the top, so even if the filter didn't have an anti-drainback valve (which it does), gravity would prevent oil in the "dirty" side of the filter from draining back into the oil line and thence to the pan. After shutdown, some quantity of oil will continue to wick through the filter medium and into the core, exiting back to the valve chamber, but not the entire 3/4 qt.

How much oil do you think would wick back down into the pan? I added 3/4 of a quart but the oil is not that much above F after the car sits overnight. What got my attention was that it had about a 4 inch oil spot under the rear of the engine the next day after installing the filter. The leaked little to none prior so I feel being over F is what is doing it. I think the solution is to drain a bit of oil off and get myself at F after the car sits overnight.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

How much oil do you think would wick back down into the pan? I added 3/4 of a quart but the oil is not that much above F after the car sits overnight. What got my attention was that it had about a 4 inch oil spot under the rear of the engine the next day after installing the filter. The leaked little to none prior so I feel being over F is what is doing it. I think the solution is to drain a bit of oil off and get myself at F after the car sits overnight.

I edited my previous comment to add something about the change in your oil return line. That plus the amount wicking through from the filter could account for the discrepancy.

[Lawrie]

I have had a full flow filter on my A for 20 yrs,the pressure drop over the filter is only 3-4 psi when hot.
Lawrie

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I edited my previous comment to add something about the change in your oil return line. That plus the amount wicking through from the filter could account for the discrepancy.

I did not even think about the oil return pipe lowering the level but that and a little wicking from the clean side if the oil filter would account for the extra oil. Thanks for solving the mystery.

Ron

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Don't add the extra oil and you will be just fine.

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

I think that the oil in the valve chamber drains into the crank case over night.

I agree with J Franklin and Brentwood Bob. I don’t understand why you would check the oil right after you drive. The important thing to do is check the oil BEFORE you drive.

David Serrano

[Herb Concord Ca]

If you want a shorter filter use a Wix filter #51068, it come painted black.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I think the solution is to drain a bit of oil off and get myself at F after the car sits overnight.

A lot of people, me included, run the oil level between F and E. I think you have too much oil in there. I use WIX 51515 filters.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

A lot of people, me included, run the oil level between F and E. I think you have too much oil in there. I use WIX 51515 filters.

The 51515 is a good alternative to the 21515 if you need to replace it. The key for these filters is to make sure the one you buy has a bypass valve that starts to open at 8 psi. If the bypass opens at 12 or 20, with these weak oil pumps it may never open at all. However, the specs on bypass valve settings can be hard to find. The PL30001 is another one that starts to open at 8 psi, and it's also slightly larger.

The Fram PH8A opens at 12. The Wix 51806 (aka NapaGold 1806) opens at 7, that might be one to try.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

The 51515 is a good alternative to the 21515 if you need to replace it.

I like the WIX because it is painted black, just peel off the label and it is all but hidden. Plus I hear WIX makes NAPA filters?

[alexiskai]

Correct, each Napa Gold filter has a WIX counterpart, so the WIX 51515 is the Napa Gold 1515.

[Model A Ron]

Thanks for all the information.

[McMimmcs]

Did you ever call Mikes?