Engine Identification '34 Ford

[GThorpe]

Hello All- I have a '34 5-Window Model B. The car is in what seems to be original condition. I am wondering how I can tell if the engine is original to the car. It is a 4-cyl engine. The VIN's all match on the rest of the car, but I cannot find anything on the engine to check it. To my understanding it is more rare to have a car with the 4-cyl engine, which makes me wonder if this is the original motor, or if it has been replaced over the course of its life. Thanks in advance!
-Greg

[rockfla]

I don't have the 33/34 book in front of me BUT "IF" memory serves I think the number on the fours are on the right rear of the bell housing area near where it bolts to the block OR on the right rear corner of the block??? ALSO your frame number should start differently than a V8 I believe not sure if the "AB" followed after 32. What is the starting 4 or 5 numbers??? Others more knowledgeable I'm sure will correct ME!! And, yes, the 34's with 4 cyl engines are very limited in production numbers, even more so than 1933!!!


PICTURES TOO, We love pictures!!!! Post some pictures of that "4 banger" Coupe!!!

[GThorpe]

Okay got it! I will have to check those places tonight when I get home from work. The VIN is B526****... I will attach some photos of it as well in another post!

[DavidG]

Everything that distinguishes a '33-'34 four from a '32 four is a bolt-on part. The so-called short block (cylinder block, crankshaft, camshaft, pistons, connecting rods, etc.) is the same for all three model years' engines except for the crankshaft as only late '32 fours have a counterbalanced crankshaft.


In other words, if the engine in your '34 has a counterbalanced crankshaft, there is no way of knowing if it is the engine the car was built with or a rebuilt engine. (Obviously if it does not have a counterbalanced crankshaft, the engine is not original to the car.)


Your engine number (VIN) of B526XXXX) is in the ball park, but you won't find it on the engine block but rather on top of the flywheel housing which is a bolt-on component and may or may not be attached to the original engine block.


You're correct, '34 fours are rare as Ford stopped offering them in its U.S. cars, commercial vehicles, and trucks in April, 1934 as the demand for them keep declining throughout the '33 model year and into the '34 model year. I once had a four-cylinder '34 roadster and presently have a '33 four-banger coupe.

[GThorpe]

[GThorpe]

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Originally Posted by rockfla

I don't have the 33/34 book in front of me BUT "IF" memory serves I think the number on the fours are on the right rear of the bell housing area near where it bolts to the block OR on the right rear corner of the block??? ALSO your frame number should start differently than a V8 I believe not sure if the "AB" followed after 32. What is the starting 4 or 5 numbers??? Others more knowledgeable I'm sure will correct ME!! And, yes, the 34's with 4 cyl engines are very limited in production numbers, even more so than 1933!!!


PICTURES TOO, We love pictures!!!! Post some pictures of that "4 banger" Coupe!!!

What is the easiest way to post a photo as I have it downloaded onto my computer and it's looking for the URL link... Thanks!

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Everything that distinguishes a '33-'34 four from a '32 four is a bolt-on part. The so-called short block (cylinder block, crankshaft, camshaft, pistons, connecting rods, etc.) is the same for all three model years' engines except for the crankshaft as only late '32 fours have a counterbalanced crankshaft.


In other words, if the engine in your '34 has a counterbalanced crankshaft, there is no way of knowing if it is the engine the car was built with or a rebuilt engine. (Obviously if it does not have a counterbalanced crankshaft, the engine is not original to the car.)


Your engine number (VIN) of B526XXXX) is in the ball park, but you won't find it on the engine block but rather on top of the flywheel housing which is a bolt-on component and may or may not be attached to the original engine block.


You're correct, '34 fours are rare as Ford stopped offering them in its U.S. cars, commercial vehicles, and trucks in April, 1934 as the demand for them keep declining throughout the '33 model year and into the '34 model year. I once had a four-cylinder '34 roadster and presently have a '33 four-banger coupe.

Thank you for all this! I will be sure to check on this when I get home!

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by GThorpe

What is the easiest way to post a photo as I have it downloaded onto my computer and it's looking for the URL link... Thanks!

IF you look at the "dash board" of the box you posted in, there is a black paper clip in the top center. Click on the black paper clip and you will have a box with about 6 lines where you can upload pictures from your computer. Be mindful that you cannot load "large" megabite pictures SO you need to make sure the file size is below Like 1G.

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by rockfla

IF you look at the "dash board" of the box you posted in, there is a black paper clip in the top center. Click on the black paper clip and you will have a box with about 6 lines where you can upload pictures from your computer. Be mindful that you cannot load "large" megabite pictures SO you need to make sure the file size is below Like 1G.

Got it!! Thanks for the help! IMG_0021.jpg

[rockfla]

Wow, that's one sweet looking ride!!!! Thanks for sharing. THE "OTHER" contributing factor that is in NO books OR doesn't get mentioned IS.......How many people acquired a car like yours and "Converted" it to a V8. SO "HOPEFULLY" yours doesn't ever meet that fate!

[Mike34]

x2 Keep it as is!

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Wow, that's one sweet looking ride!!!! Thanks for sharing. THE "OTHER" contributing factor that is in NO books OR doesn't get mentioned IS.......How many people acquired a car like yours and "Converted" it to a V8. SO "HOPEFULLY" yours doesn't ever meet that fate!

No plans on changing it at all! Love it the way it is, and just got it running perfectly. IMG_0761.jpg

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GThorpe

No plans on changing it at all! Love it the way it is, and just got it running perfectly. Attachment 473591

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by GThorpe

No plans on changing it at all! Love it the way it is, and just got it running perfectly. Attachment 473591

In the vein of "authenticity" and "as Henry built it" Its hard to tell from your second photo BUT it looks as IF you hub caps are "V8" which would be incorrect (IF you are looking for "correctness"). IF they are......They "should" have the script "Ford" oval caps!!!!


AND....Is it me OR it looks as if you are missing a (1) horn???? Can't see from the shadows

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by rockfla

In the vein of "authenticity" and "as Henry built it" Its hard to tell from your second photo BUT it looks as IF you hub caps are "V8" which would be incorrect (IF you are looking for "correctness"). IF they are......They "should" have the script "Ford" oval caps!!!!


AND....Is it me OR it looks as if you are missing a horn???? Can't see from the shadows

It does in-fact have V8 caps. That is the way I got it. Also when I got the car it did have twin horns on the front, and sealed beam headlights. The originals were in the trunk so I swapped them back for the originals, losing the horns in the process. Under the hood there is a horn though...

[petehoovie]

Correct 1934 Ford Hubcap >





Looks as though GThorpe has '32 Hubcaps on his car >

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Correct 1934 Ford Hubcap >





Looks as though GThorpe has '32 Hubcaps on his car >

You're correct, I just checked a few photos I have on my phone.

[rockfla]

NO V8 Caps, I am scrambling to find a better picture BUT here is a 34 Roadster with a 4 cyl that has the "Ford" oval hub caps, one feature line near the outer edge of the cap, Ford Oval in the center, close to the upper of the two caps posted by petehoovie BUT with the Script Ford Oval instead!!!!

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by rockfla

NO V8 Caps, I am scrambling to find a better picture BUT here is a 34 Roadster with a 4 cyl that has the "Ford" oval hub caps, one feature line near the outer edge of the cap, Ford Oval in the center, close to the upper of the two caps posted by petehoovie BUT with the Script Ford Oval instead!!!!

Looks like I might need to get a set to swap out the V8 ones... This car sat in a garage for years only being driven once, maybe twice a year. I tried to buy it multiple times but the stubborn old timer never wanted to let it go. When he passed in 2016 I was able to get it from the son, who called me expressing it was left to him and he did not want it. I've had it since then and I even drive it to work pretty often (whenever the weather cooperates). Can't tell you how many people have followed me and asked if it was for sale. haha!

[rockfla]

Here you go

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Here you go

Yeah, you wouldn't have V8 Hubcaps on a four cylinder car.....

[DavidG]

Today might be your lucky day as I have a spare set of NOS '34-only four-cylinder hub caps as in Robert's photo above (but with the blue paint intact). Please send me a p.m. if you are interested.


Back on Robert's post #10, I could ring the neck of the guy that I sold my four-banger '34 roadster to as while he restored the car, he did so as a V8.


When you get a chance, I very much would like to see your engine compartment; both sides, please.

[rockfla]

AND you must not forget, ONE horn...NOT two, left side, BLACK....ALL black including the "dome" IF authenticity is the desire.

[rockfla]

DavidG


Would the 34 share the same engine tins as the 33 4cyl??

[Terry,OH]

There is no way to determine if the engine in your car is the one it left the factory with. At any previous point in time it could have been replaced by an identical appearing engine. The number on the top of the transmission does not indicate anything about engine replacement, since the engine can be changed without changing the transmission. It will let you know the transmission case was with the car when it left the factory or it has been changed and if changed what model year the case is from.

[rockfla]

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GThorpe


All be it a 1933, It is a "standard" configuration for the horn.

[DavidG]

Terry,

No doubt you had a V8 in mind as there are not engine numbers on '32-'34 four-cylinder transmission cases, only on the separate upper bell housing.


Robert,

Yes, the four-cylinder engine splash pans are the same for both '33 and '34 fours. Do you need them?

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Terry,

No doubt you had a V8 in mind as there are not engine numbers on '32-'34 four-cylinder transmission cases, only on the separate upper bell housing.


Robert,

Yes, the four-cylinder engine splash pans are the same for both '33 and '34 fours. Do you need them?

No Sir, thank you very much for asking.......I have "A" set AND I "might" have a second set original to our 33.....BUT not 100% sure. I got an extra set off of a fellow converting a 33 to a V8.....another one, sadly down!!! Funny thing was when it was over he wished he had not done it!!! JUST my curiosity asking.

[jimTN]

Very nice car. One other item should be changed and thats the bumper guards. You car should have the type shown above on the last posted pic. You might also check the frame vin number, left side in front of the steering gear. If it has the be prefix it is logical that the car was originally a 4 cyl.

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by jimTN

Very nice car. One other item should be changed and thats the bumper guards. You car should have the type shown above on the last posted pic. You might also check the frame vin number, left side in front of the steering gear. If it has the be prefix it is logical that the car was originally a 4 cyl.

Gotcha! And yes, that is the VIN that I checked when I got the car, and that also matched the VIN that came on the registration for the car. "B526XXXX"

I also found out that this car's VIN decodes to being made in January 1934.

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by rockfla

GThorpe


All be it a 1933, It is a "standard" configuration for the horn.

Yes, I have that exact horn for the car. There were two of them, one on each side when I got the car.

[DavidG]

Once you ditch the bumper guards on the car in the photos, it's your choice whether to have them or not as they were optional at extra cost originally.

[DavidG]

Robert,

On the subject of bumper guards, while they will fit on a '33 bumper as on that station wagon in your photo in #26 (but not perfectly vertical as intended), they are '34 parts for use with the wider center bolt spacing bumpers and were not released until after the '33 model year had ended in the U.S..

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Robert,

On the subject of bumper guards, while they will fit on a '33 bumper as on that station wagon in your photo in #26 (but not perfectly vertical as intended), they are '34 parts for use with the wider center bolt spacing bumpers and were not released until after the '33 model year had ended in the U.S..

Thank you once again for sharing your impeccable knowledge David. I have never even paid attention to bumper guards on 34’s OR lack there of in 33, another lesson on “pay close attention” to the “details”!! My comment on that post for “standard configuration” was intended to show the single black horn on the left, again never having knowledge you shared on bumper guards!! So I stand corrected. Thanks again for educating me


PS…thanks for the education on 32 shocks AND windshield wiper motors in the other post. Between you and Sheldon my knowledge has expanded greatly!!! Thank you, Thank you!

[DavidG]

Robert,

You're welcome, as always.

[deuce lover]

...

[rockfla]

GThorpe
For the Icing on your tasty "cake" here is the proper "locking" spare tire cap.

[DavidG]

Which is easily confused with the '35 locking cap. As shown in Robert's photos, the width of the depressed area of the oval is wider on the ends while on the '35 cap the width of the depressed area is uniform all around the oval.

[rockfla]

An example of what DavidR speaks a la 1935 for comparison. NOTE the uniform width of the oval

[DavidG]

While granted that more '35s were produced than '34s, folks must have really liked the '35 version as their survival rate seems to be extraordinarily high.

[GThorpe]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Today might be your lucky day as I have a spare set of NOS '34-only four-cylinder hub caps as in Robert's photo above (but with the blue paint intact). Please send me a p.m. if you are interested.


Back on Robert's post #10, I could ring the neck of the guy that I sold my four-banger '34 roadster to as while he restored the car, he did so as a V8.


When you get a chance, I very much would like to see your engine compartment; both sides, please.

Here's a few photos of the engine compartment you asked for. Let me know if there is anything you'd like to see in better detail. FORD1.jpg

FORD2.jpg

FORD3.jpg

FORD4.jpg

[DavidG]

Thanks for the informative photos.

With the notable exceptions of the horn, ignition coil, and carburetor, everything looks to be of Ford origin. One Ford item that has been replaced over the years with an earlier version is the generator. It has what appears to be a '32 generator with a stamped steel front cover/support instead of the late '33-'34 version with a die cast front cover and a vented back cover.

I assume that your wanted list includes an air cleaner with a modern element as running it without one will hasten the time when the engine will require rebuiding.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GThorpe

Here's a few photos of the engine compartment you asked for. Let me know if there is anything you'd like to see in better detail.

[rockfla]

Once again, IF “authenticity” and “as Henry built it” the ultimate goal, you are also missing engine tins/splash aprons pictured. Not uncommon them
missing, most don’t know as they aren’t there to begin.

[rockfla]

I stand corrected, DavidR astutely pointed out...my quick glance at the left side shows your tin appears bent downward. Your right pan is clearly there. my apologies on that detail