All Original Is Unsafe

[Bob Bidonde]

In my opinion, it is not safe to drive an all original Model "A" and "AA." As a minimum, a driving car / truck must have:
> A 2nd taillight;
> LED taillights or much brighter incandescent taillight bulbs;
> An outside mirror on both sides of the vehicle;
> Turn signals;
> Safety glass in every window;
> A cast aluminum or 6-blade plastic cooling fan;
> Cast iron front brake drums;
> Complete set of reproduction wiring.
Having the experiences of having driven my Model A's many thousands of miles since 1962, there is no way I can be convinced otherwise. Original Model "A" & "AA" vehicles are for trailering to shows only, and not for driving in modern traffic for any reason.

[Tom F OHIO]

I talked to a guy yesterday and he said he would never drive a Model A with mechanical brakes. I have them and have no problems.

[rfitzpatrick]

Absolutely agree w/ Bob.
But why cast iron only on front?
TKS

[alexiskai]

Not seatbelts though, huh? Seatbelts optional, in your safety checklist?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Kinda ironic Bob as there were 55 of us in a group of 1915 and older cars who drove (-in traffic) from Dearborn, MI to Lansing, MI last Thursday on backroads and in several cities, and we didn't have any issues with traffic. Drove back to Dearborn on Friday too, with only 6 vehicles not making it back under their own power.

We basically drove at speeds around 30-40 MPH, but we were courteous and aware of our surroundings, and we would drive the shoulder when we had cars beginning to stack-up. I have toured extensively with brass-era cars over the years which have two-wheel brakes, primitive steering, no seat belts, etc. HOWEVER I/we know what our vehicle's limits are. The bigger issue I see with 'original' Model-As is they really are not in the same condition like they were originally. Most have been 'MacGuyvered' in some way to compensate for a component (-or components!!) that are worn well outside of factory specifications.

I know this is brutal, but in all my years of being around this hobby, as a whole the majority of Model-As that are driven/toured today are in much worse mechanical condition than what we saw on Model-As back in the 60s - 80s on tour. I attribute that to today's hobbyists who fail to maintenance or upkeep their car, -nor do they even do routine checks on their Model-A, ...however it is the car that gets the bad reputation as being unsafe.

[rotorwrench]

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Nobody wants to take any risks anymore? For the most part, if it was good enough for Grandpop then it's good enough for me. Concessions are made according to state and federal mandates. Folks may feel different if driving a model T. There isn't a lot a person can do to improve them.

I don't drive the old ones much but I tend to drive out in the slower country areas as a general preference. I avoid the interstates like the plague. Anticipate stops and keep a sharp eye out for trouble ahead. People are hard to anticipate so I use the best common sense I can muster and listen to that little voice in my head that tells me trouble is afoot.

I still ride my motorcycles and I can attest to the fact that a person has to have their head on a swivel. There is not much else that will save you during a bike ride.

[Keith True]

There are still a lot of those guys around.Guys who never drove an A with good brakes,or even half good brakes.I'm usually pretty polite,and will explain to them just why the mechanical brakes can be just fine.When I get the impression from some that I am talking to a stone post I just tell them that they have no idea what they are talking about.I don't think I've ever had to explain that to anybody that actually owns an A.Just armchair experts.The worst place for accurate information is from old timers and the intertube.I can't get on FB groups,but somebody brought an A group up to show me.I actually thought it was a joke site.

[shiver]

Amen Bob, if you want to drive with the safety of a convoy and spend your time on roadside seminars roll an ‘original’ as Brent says hacks in the hobby abound.

Or, do your due diligence maintenance wise and ‘modify’ the car.. there are ways to use original main components modified and compete in todays traffic

[Jeff/Illinois]

Heck Bob I'll go one further.......


In today's driver distracted world it isn't safe to be driving ANYTHING anymore

[jrelliott]

Agree with Bob on having the A in top mechanical condition with the improvements he has indicated. How many A owners as Brent pointed out went to the extra expense of getting the brakes to original condition. My brakes will lock all four without drifting to one side or another. That said you still will not be able to stop like modern cars with wide foot print tires. There is simply not enough surface area of the tires on the road to stop quickly. As rotowrench said you have to be very observant of your surroundings when driving the older vehicles.

[Mike1291]

My car had the original steel drums on it and you can lock up all the tires like Elliott mentioned. But the improvement is in brake fade. You really only get one good stop before the drums expand from the heat. And you'll be sorry if you need to brake heavily twice in quick succession.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike1291

My car had the original steel drums on it and you can lock up all the tires like Elliott mentioned. But the improvement is in brake fade. You really only get one good stop before the drums expand from the heat. And you'll be sorry if you need to brake heavily twice in quick succession.

Or traveling on a long down hill with lotsa curves. It gets pretty exciting.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by rfitzpatrick

But why cast iron only on front?
TKS

Easy way to make your brakes front end biased.

[fourfords]

sounds like you should go buy a Brinks armored truck and avoid this 'risky and dangerous' Model A Ford hobby.

Don't get me wrong, its your car and you can do whatever you want. My concern is that with all the modifications you recommend, you are trying to turn the Model A into something different and wasn't designed to do. That is: Making a 90+ vehicle to compete with modern cars and modern city traffic. That's why I didn't buy a Model T. Sometimes someone will ask "Why do you drive a car that's so slow?" I reply, If I wanted to go faster, I'd buy a faster car!" That's why they made Shay Reproductions. I think these cars are very charming and an important historical piece of Americana as is.

Practical things like cooling fans that had problems during the Model A era are common sense items to be updated to accommodate safer metallurgy.

[JayJay]

I agree with Bob B about sensible upgrades over original to improve your chances of seeing and being seen. I also agree with Keith True about the “armchair experts” who expound, often vociferously and adamantly, without investment. Here in California motorcycles are allowed to “lane share”, which means that a motorcycle can pass between two lanes of traffic if there is physical room even if not a full open lane. Very useful in beep-and-creep traffic, and quite reasonable if done carefully and respectfully. I cannot count the number of people who used to tell me how stupid I was to do this - none of them riders themselves. (I don’t ride any more, but for different reasons than traffic safety).

And Brent - to your point, it seems to me that a good portion of the cars I’ve seen on club tours that end up with roadside seminars were previously restored (maybe back in the early heydays of this hobby) but maybe not a whole lot of attention since then. We are spoiled by modern cars being so reliable. Hell, you don’t even need to check your tire pressure any more, just wait for an idiot light! I remember my dad had a first weekend of the month routine that included tire pressure, battery water, oil, transmission, air filter, rear end, lights, belts, hoses, and likely more. Not to mention things that were mileage-driven like oil change, lube and valve adjustment. I know I am guilty of pretty much ignoring my own modern cars, maybe because they are not much fun to work on (how excited can you get changing oil on a Prius?) But I do try to keep up with the Model As.

[Bob Bidonde]

My post lists things as a minimum, so as a minimum cast iron brakes in the front. I did not include seat belts as a minimum must have because many installations I have seen in Model A's would not withstand crash loading.

[nkaminar]

I will go with Bob on this one. A few years ago I got a completely stock 29 Fordor running and really missed the outside mirrors and turn indicators that my car has.

The mechanical brakes can be just as effective as juice brakes if they are in good shape. I have added the Flat Head Ted kit to mine and they help a lot. It also helps to bias the brakes to the front rather than the rear, which is taught by every "expert."

In the 1950's I drove a completely stock 1930 coupe all over California. But the traffic and the amount on cars on the road was much different then.

[ronn]

AN interesting fact is where Bob lives and where you live Brent. I agree to keep the cars mostly original, but if you havent driven in LI traffic, you havent driven..............


I know Ten U Cee is building up, but still mild compared to LI. I used to drive up there and will never go back. Life is too short.

[clifforddward]

I'll agree with Bob on this minimum list of alterations...I just finished a total re-wiring in conjunction with conversion from 12v negative ground back to 6v positive ground...Along with that project I added LED turn signals in the bumper bars, additional LED brake lights in the rear bumper, and LED headlights. In the week since completing this rewiring project I have driven the car daily, and traffic seems to notice me more and offer more courtesy...at least it seems that way to me...I know I feel better about my safety in traffic.

I did the rest of Bob's list already in the past.

Only thing I will add is a battery disconnect...I added this with the wiring project...makes it easy to shut down electricals in the car with one flip of the switch...easily accomplished while I am shutting off the gas on my late '31.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

I did not include seat belts as a minimum must have because many installations I have seen in Model A's would not withstand crash loading.

That's an isolated demand for rigor. We all know that configuring the brakes properly is the actual step that increases safety. I've seen lots of unsafe cars with cast iron brakes. I've seen plenty of reproduction wiring jobs that made the car less safe. Why are seat belts the only modification that you think has to meet an arbitrary standard?

[Russ B]

My four cylinder A ‘29 cabriolet has those upgrades and more, and is well maintained. I agree with Bob. In 2017, I took a solo 500 mile freeway drive with the cabriolet. I felt comfortable except for one incident about a hundred miles from home. My brakes were inadequate in modern traffic when a single driver jumped in front of me and quickly applied his brakes because there was too little room for him. I was barely able to avoid a collision, but sufficiently scared.

Driving our Model A’s in normal traffic during the 1960s was safe because driving conditions and cars were quite different than they are today. It was pre interstate freeways, pre radial tires, pre disc brakes, and pre antilock brakes. Newer car drivers are not used to driving with older cars on the road. Those drivers make our driving among them unsafe.

[bigmegina]

i drive mine almost every day, to coffee shops,gasateria,grocey store,all original.the speed limit in my town is 35 and nelly loves 35mph.i am not afraid because i am a biker for 56 years and nothing scares me on the road.

[Wick]

Where I live the speed limits are mostly 45-35 But those speeds are just suggestions. Most here want to ride your bumper and pull out in front of you, they don't respect the old Fords....but if it's a truck, you get respect.
I have added turn signals and better lights, Brakes, the truck I just did will lock up all four wheels, steering if perfect. I adjust the brakes so the Fronts work first like a modern car, we are not on gravel roads anymore. I have found over the years this really helps in stopping a model A.
I've added turn signals to my 40 Ford also.
Wiring harness....I hate patched up old rats nest wiring, shorts,bad grounds and fires Will happen.
Always carry a Fire extinguisher, Jack, spare tire and have AAA

[rackops]

Got to agree on the seat belts and AAA as posted earlier. I wouldn't drive my car without seatbelts (no matter if they aren't the best protection) and, while it's kind of embarrassing to get a tow home...sometimes it's inevitable.

[shiver]

Seatbelts are only as good as the anchor they are attached to.

No matter what modifications are performed the car is dangerous to occupants in a crash, from a fuel tank in your lap to a ridgid steering column to doors that pop open on impact.. no to mention folks in a rumble seat if you have one. Driving an A is like riding a motorcycle.. tons of fun as long as you don’t crash.

[JoeCB]

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Enjoyed following this thread, and got a few chuckles along the way.
Safety is not an absolute... it's all relative. With your "A" its relative to your driving environment (too many BMW's ...bad!), miles driven, your age and ability, condition of the car etc. It's not safe to get out of bed or the bathtub... nothing and nowhere is 100% safe... risk is relative.
Enjoy your Model A
Joe B

[David in San Antonio]

Some days people seem to be less alert. I’ve taken to driving with the four-way hazard flashers going. That seems to make a difference.

[Gene F]

Some interesting comments on this topic.

[bigmegina]

Originally Posted by shiver

Seatbelts are only as good as the anchor they are attached to.

No matter what modifications are performed the car is dangerous to occupants in a crash, from a fuel tank in your lap to a ridgid steering column to doors that pop open on impact.. no to mention folks in a rumble seat if you have one. Driving an A is like riding a motorcycle.. tons of fun as long as you don’t crash.

well put

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

AN interesting fact is where Bob lives and where you live Brent. I agree to keep the cars mostly original, but if you havent driven in LI traffic, you havent driven..............


I know Ten U Cee is building up, but still mild compared to LI. I used to drive up there and will never go back. Life is too short.

Yeah, to a certain extent I would agree that location means alot but much of my driving is done outside of 10-uh-C too. This past weekend we drove brass-era cars thru Dearborn traffic up to Lansing by way of Ann Arbor -and even a place called Hell, Michigan!! In the past I have driven in urban areas of Florida, Ohio, Georgia, N Carolina, etc. where traffic could have been a danger to me and my vehicle if I chose to drive on those roads. Instead I found nearby alternate roads that were safer for me and surrounding motorists. Again, I try to be prudent and try not to throw caution to the wind and put myself in what I would call precarious situations.

Therefore much of this topic simply boils down where I am generally not going to drive any of my antique vehicles in places like the Beltway around DC, -or expressways in major metropolitan areas such as Houston, Chicago, LI or LA ...however just because someone who chooses to do so should not mean that I must succumb to their opinion about modifying my car to satisfy that someone's idea of what is safe -or not. If anyone needs inspiration of being able to drive in busy traffic, that would have been Marco in his Roadster. Marco had no difficulty driving his Roadster with the flow of traffic.
As I stated above, most hobbyists drive Model-As with worn mechanicals and because of their lack of effort to properly maintain it, they try to convince others that original Model-As are unsafe by nature and must be modified to become reliable or capable of participating on a tour.

[German guy]

I would add seat belts to that list. The fact is that ANY seat belt would be better than no seat belt. At the speed at which it is "safe" to drive (nothing above 50 mph) any model A "crash loading" is not critical. Anyone out there bragging about driving a car with inner tunes in very narrow tires that are highly susceptible to truck groves and other dangers at 65 mph has limited credibility with regard to 'safety'.

[rackops]

Originally Posted by David in San Antonio

Some days people seem to be less alert. I’ve taken to driving with the four-way hazard flashers going. That seems to make a difference.

If I'm driving on a highway or causeway, I always turn my flashers on. This is a great point. I prefer to stay off of larger roads, but living in an area near the water and surrounded by swampland, driving on major arteries (not freeways, but 50 mph two and four lane highways) is unavoidable for short jumps to get from one point to another.

[dan]

I had a (mostly) all-original coupe that I drove to work three days a week, 17-mile round trip, in California Bay Area traffic. Admittedly on surface streets and "expressways" not actual highways. Sure, some days it was "interesting" but I never worried too much. It's no different than riding a motorcycle--drive defensively, politely, and never assume.



There's nothing you can do to a Model A that's going to make it "safe" if it gets T-boned by a modern car going 40mph. Nor are you going to be able to out-stop a modern car sports car that cuts you off and slams on its ABS. No amount of new lighting is going to prevent someone who's texting and driving from rear-ending you.



Every owner will need to make their own assessment of the risks they're willing to take. Personally, I'm so used to seat belts now that it's uncomfortable not to wear one... twelve-year-old me would never believe that day would come. And I can't recall the last time I saw a car with non-safety glass-though I suppose they're out there.



My advice: maintain your car and drive the heck out of it.

[ronn]

Well said Brent. great thread.............

[German guy]

I think that it largely depends on where you drive the car. I am surrounded by very hilly winding roads with steep inclines and switchbacks. My mechanical brakes scare the crap out of me on a regular basis no matter how carefully I drive. There is always a farm tractor pulling a wagon just around the next downhill hairpin curve. If I lived in typically flat Ohio, Kansas, etc I would probably feel differently.

[Raaf]

Interesting thread and honestly difficult to consider. The implications here are that the door may be closing on our cars, or that it has closed. I do appreciate the comparison to motorcycles, but then again I've lost two loved ones to motorcycles.

For me it comes down to using the A where it makes the most sense - where I get the most enjoyment, appreciation for the car, and can limit risk to a degree.

I choose my routes very carefully. I understand where I am on in the overall pecking order out there. ...and that even a fender bender could cost me my teeth, my face, or worse.

But I can't let go. I'm not ready. The simplicity, the design, the feel of the road...and the sounds are incomparable.

29' roadster...when I drive it I can't help but think everyone else has it all wrong.

[Harpkatt]

Originally Posted by Raaf

Interesting thread and honestly difficult to consider. The implications here are that the door may be closing on our cars, or that it has closed. I do appreciate the comparison to motorcycles, but then again I've lost two loved ones to motorcycles.

For me it comes down to using the A where it makes the most sense - where I get the most enjoyment, appreciation for the car, and can limit risk to a degree.

I choose my routes very carefully. I understand where I am on in the overall pecking order out there. ...and that even a fender bender could cost me my teeth, my face, or worse.

But I can't let go. I'm not ready. The simplicity, the design, the feel of the road...and the sounds are incomparable.

29' roadster...when I drive it I can't help but think everyone else has it all wrong.

RAAF this is beautifully put. If I wanted to be reasonable, I'd rebuild Camrys not these old fords

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Raaf

29' roadster...when I drive it I can't help but think everyone else has it all wrong.

When I drive my Town Sedan I tell my wife I'm going out to get some "Smileage" in the Ol' Girl.

[WHN]

Model A’s weren’t safe when they were new. People didn’t know the difference. Who would know what 100 years would bring in car technology.

I have always driven on country roads. Even than, I try to look ahead as far as possible.

I am always thankful to get home safely. Breakdown, accident, whatever. She’s back in the barn, safe and sound. Me to.

Enjoy.

[nkaminar]

The speed limit in most highways in 1930 was 45 mph and cops would give you a ticket if going over that. Now the speed limit on most highway is 65 or 70 and I get passed by people doing 90 all the time. In my modern car I put the cruise control 5 mph over the speed limit and don't bother slowing down when passing a cop.

The Model T was a lot less safe than the Model A.

[rfitzpatrick]

The Model T was a lot less safe than the Model A.[/QUOTE]


Don't the T have a speedometer that tops at 65 MPH?
I can't imagine what's that's like looking thru that windshield

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by WHN

Model A’s weren’t safe when they were new. People didn’t know the difference. Who would know what 100 years would bring in car technology.

That logic makes sense, ...and I suppose the same thing can be said about our brand new cars today. They are not safe either compared to what we will likely be driving in a few decades from now.

Originally Posted by rfitzpatrick

The Model T was a lot less safe than the Model A.

Don't the T have a speedometer that tops at 65 MPH?
I can't imagine what's that's like looking thru that windshield[/QUOTE]

Mine on my 1909 actually reads 60mph. Yes, 60mph in that car would likely be unimaginable. For most of my own Model-Ts, I can safely keep up on a tour with most Model-As. At faster speeds, I generally run out of steering ability followed by braking ability before I ever run out of power. The same thing can be said for most 'restored' Model-As on tour. Think about that!!

[Kurt in NJ]

The model t came without a speedometer ( at least on my 17 and many other years
The model A speedometer in my car tops out at 75.
There are a lot of prize winning “restored” cars that I would be afraid to drive over 35.
A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances ,specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

[Tom F OHIO]

Clifford where did you mount your switch at??

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

The model t came without a speedometer ( at least on my 17 and many other years
The model A speedometer in my car tops out at 75.
There are a lot of prize winning “restored” cars that I would be afraid to drive over 35. A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances ,specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

Yes, Speedometers were installed starting in mid-year of 1909, and were standard equipment on all 1910 thru mid-year of 1915 -and then optional from M1915 thru EoP.

[JayJay]

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Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances, specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

I cannot count the number of cars I’ve seen that cosmetically look pretty good but mechanically are very poor. That’s backwards to me.

[nkaminar]

Brent, What was the speed limit in 1909 when the Model T was first introduced? I recall it being 25 mph, but it was a long time ago and hard to remember details that far back.

[Synchro909]

We are just back from a 3,300 miles tour and mixed it with modern traffic all the way. I'd HATE to have to do that in an original car, which mine is most definitely not. I estimate I have about 90 HP under my foot, synchro cog box and O/D. Even then, I had to work it hard at times to stay out of trouble. With those upgrades to "GO", I have upgrades to "WHOA" too and seat belts, even though it is near impossible to legally install them here. Don't get me started on that topic!

[nkaminar]

Welcome back. Please start a new thread about your trip, with photos.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by JayJay

I agree with Bob B about sensible upgrades over original to improve your chances of seeing and being seen. I also agree with Keith True about the “armchair experts” who expound, often vociferously and adamantly, without investment. Here in California motorcycles are allowed to “lane share”, which means that a motorcycle can pass between two lanes of traffic if there is physical room even if not a full open lane. Very useful in beep-and-creep traffic, and quite reasonable if done carefully and respectfully. I cannot count the number of people who used to tell me how stupid I was to do this - none of them riders themselves. (I don’t ride any more, but for different reasons than traffic safety).

And Brent - to your point, it seems to me that a good portion of the cars I’ve seen on club tours that end up with roadside seminars were previously restored (maybe back in the early heydays of this hobby) but maybe not a whole lot of attention since then. We are spoiled by modern cars being so reliable. Hell, you don’t even need to check your tire pressure any more, just wait for an idiot light! I remember my dad had a first weekend of the month routine that included tire pressure, battery water, oil, transmission, air filter, rear end, lights, belts, hoses, and likely more. Not to mention things that were mileage-driven like oil change, lube and valve adjustment. I know I am guilty of pretty much ignoring my own modern cars, maybe because they are not much fun to work on (how excited can you get changing oil on a Prius?) But I do try to keep up with the Model As.

splitting lanes is on the freeway, i would never drive my Model A on the freeway or an interstate

[shiver]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

The model t came without a speedometer ( at least on my 17 and many other years
The model A speedometer in my car tops out at 75.
There are a lot of prize winning “restored” cars that I would be afraid to drive over 35.
A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances ,specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

That is, I’m my opinion why babbit gets a bad rap.. folks paint and engine and think it’s restored, when the hammer out a center main they blame it on bearing construction, not lack of correct maintenance

[bkensinger]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

In my opinion, it is not safe to drive an all original Model "A" and "AA." As a minimum, a driving car / truck must have:
> A 2nd taillight;
> LED taillights or much brighter incandescent taillight bulbs;
> An outside mirror on both sides of the vehicle;
> Turn signals;
> Safety glass in every window;
> A cast aluminum or 6-blade plastic cooling fan;
> Cast iron front brake drums;
> Complete set of reproduction wiring.
Having the experiences of having driven my Model A's many thousands of miles since 1962, there is no way I can be convinced otherwise. Original Model "A" & "AA" vehicles are for trailering to shows only, and not for driving in modern traffic for any reason.

Everything you said is true!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Brent, What was the speed limit in 1909 when the Model T was first introduced? I recall it being 25 mph, but it was a long time ago and hard to remember details that far back.

Neil I honestly have no idea. My speedometer is authentic to the 1909 Ford only, so I am not sure why they put the 60 mph on there. Contrary to what many believe, a 100% totally stock Model-T will easily run along at speeds in the mid-40 mph range. Maybe Henry it was a marketing ploy to have a speedo that showed 60 much like automakers today install speedometers that have 100 mph yet these vehicles are typically governed to top out somewhere in the mid 80s.

Originally Posted by bkensinger

Everything you said is true!

Bob, have you ever driven, -or ridden in a low mileage original Model-A? For the ones of us that have, there really is not a comparison to one that is worn beyond factory specifications. That is why many have discussed many cars are unsafe because they were poorly restored.

[Bob Bidonde]

Wow! This is a hot topic, right up there with motor oil. Thanks all for your opinions, I much enjoyed reading them, but I am still strongly of the opinion that originality in modern traffic is not safe. I just returned from the 67th New England Meet in Rocky Hill, Connecticut where over 100 Model A's attended. Only the show car trailer queens were original. All of 100+ model A's in the parking lot that drove to the meet had some safety modifications.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Brendan

splitting lanes is on the freeway, i would never drive my Model A on the freeway or an interstate

“Never” is a pretty strong word, Brendan ��.

Something to consider, again a holdover from my motorcycling days: on the freeway all the cars are going in the same direction, reasonably organized by lane, with no right angle streets and intersections to contend with. You can’t say that about surface streets. Here in the SF Bay Area it’s pretty much impractical to get to many places without involving a freeway at one point or another. Same or perhaps more so with interstates, some places in the country you just can’t practically get there without interstates. When I do use the freeway I stay way over to the right, anticipate merges and off-ramps, keep a long way back from cars in front, and constantly watch the mirrors for the racers. I also try to drive early mornings rather than say mid-day or rush hour.

Yes, likely a collision on the freeway will have more serious consequences, Model A or modern car. But I’d offer that the chances of said collision are much less on a freeway than on a surface street, so I’m willing to drive on the freeway if I have to.

All the safety mods that modern cars have had, from padded dashes through seat belts and tire pressure monitoring systems, have been aimed at improving passenger survivability in a crash. Regrettably, there has been little effort towards improving driver competence to avoid a crash (and I’d argue that the quality of drivers during my adult life, especially since COVID lockdown, has significantly declined). We in this hobby are mostly of a generation that learned to drive well and has a lot of experience. Let’s use that experience to keep healthy. If you’re not comfortable with any aspect of driving, don’t do it. But I think a blanket statement that Model As, or any other car (including Corvairs, but don’t get me started on that), are “unsafe” is not warranted. It’s the act of driving outside of the driver’s and the car’s limitations that will cause hurt.

Morning need for a soapbox is now satisfied.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by JayJay

“Never” is a pretty strong word, Brendan ��.

. Regrettably, there has been little effort towards improving driver competence to avoid a crash (and I’d argue that the quality of drivers during my adult life, especially since COVID lockdown, has significantly declined). We in this hobby are mostly of a generation that learned to drive well and has a lot of experience.

JayJay you just said it all brudder.....


You can have the safest car built some dumb a++ is going to try to kill you in it no matter what you do.


Distracted drivers today.... geez where to begin....and have you noticed the huge monitor screens the car makers are installing on your dash for you to touch control everything from your radio to your heater?? Like that doesn't distract even more....take dem eyes off da road....



I was raised with 'Drive Defensively' in the early 70's, that applies more today than at any time in memory


Jim Morrison, 'Roadhouse Blues'....Keep your eyes on the road your hands up-on the wheel.............Amen

[1oldtimer]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,


That list knocks out ALL my vehicles I drive. Granted some are not completely stock, but all are drum brake and the newer ones are stock (1956 and 1960). I don't own a new or modern car and don't have AAA....I have tools. I do have a cell phone and have broke down in some interesting areas before....but always made it home.


Like other have said, it's subjective to who, what and where.

[fried okra]

Old timer.....what kinda 1956 and 1960 vehicles you have?

Just curious