All Original Is Unsafe

[Bob Bidonde]

In my opinion, it is not safe to drive an all original Model "A" and "AA." As a minimum, a driving car / truck must have:
> A 2nd taillight;
> LED taillights or much brighter incandescent taillight bulbs;
> An outside mirror on both sides of the vehicle;
> Turn signals;
> Safety glass in every window;
> A cast aluminum or 6-blade plastic cooling fan;
> Cast iron front brake drums;
> Complete set of reproduction wiring.
Having the experiences of having driven my Model A's many thousands of miles since 1962, there is no way I can be convinced otherwise. Original Model "A" & "AA" vehicles are for trailering to shows only, and not for driving in modern traffic for any reason.

[Tom F OHIO]

I talked to a guy yesterday and he said he would never drive a Model A with mechanical brakes. I have them and have no problems.

[rfitzpatrick]

Absolutely agree w/ Bob.
But why cast iron only on front?
TKS

[alexiskai]

Not seatbelts though, huh? Seatbelts optional, in your safety checklist?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Kinda ironic Bob as there were 55 of us in a group of 1915 and older cars who drove (-in traffic) from Dearborn, MI to Lansing, MI last Thursday on backroads and in several cities, and we didn't have any issues with traffic. Drove back to Dearborn on Friday too, with only 6 vehicles not making it back under their own power.

We basically drove at speeds around 30-40 MPH, but we were courteous and aware of our surroundings, and we would drive the shoulder when we had cars beginning to stack-up. I have toured extensively with brass-era cars over the years which have two-wheel brakes, primitive steering, no seat belts, etc. HOWEVER I/we know what our vehicle's limits are. The bigger issue I see with 'original' Model-As is they really are not in the same condition like they were originally. Most have been 'MacGuyvered' in some way to compensate for a component (-or components!!) that are worn well outside of factory specifications.

I know this is brutal, but in all my years of being around this hobby, as a whole the majority of Model-As that are driven/toured today are in much worse mechanical condition than what we saw on Model-As back in the 60s - 80s on tour. I attribute that to today's hobbyists who fail to maintenance or upkeep their car, -nor do they even do routine checks on their Model-A, ...however it is the car that gets the bad reputation as being unsafe.

[rotorwrench]

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Nobody wants to take any risks anymore? For the most part, if it was good enough for Grandpop then it's good enough for me. Concessions are made according to state and federal mandates. Folks may feel different if driving a model T. There isn't a lot a person can do to improve them.

I don't drive the old ones much but I tend to drive out in the slower country areas as a general preference. I avoid the interstates like the plague. Anticipate stops and keep a sharp eye out for trouble ahead. People are hard to anticipate so I use the best common sense I can muster and listen to that little voice in my head that tells me trouble is afoot.

I still ride my motorcycles and I can attest to the fact that a person has to have their head on a swivel. There is not much else that will save you during a bike ride.

[Keith True]

There are still a lot of those guys around.Guys who never drove an A with good brakes,or even half good brakes.I'm usually pretty polite,and will explain to them just why the mechanical brakes can be just fine.When I get the impression from some that I am talking to a stone post I just tell them that they have no idea what they are talking about.I don't think I've ever had to explain that to anybody that actually owns an A.Just armchair experts.The worst place for accurate information is from old timers and the intertube.I can't get on FB groups,but somebody brought an A group up to show me.I actually thought it was a joke site.

[shiver]

Amen Bob, if you want to drive with the safety of a convoy and spend your time on roadside seminars roll an ‘original’ as Brent says hacks in the hobby abound.

Or, do your due diligence maintenance wise and ‘modify’ the car.. there are ways to use original main components modified and compete in todays traffic

[Jeff/Illinois]

Heck Bob I'll go one further.......


In today's driver distracted world it isn't safe to be driving ANYTHING anymore

[jrelliott]

Agree with Bob on having the A in top mechanical condition with the improvements he has indicated. How many A owners as Brent pointed out went to the extra expense of getting the brakes to original condition. My brakes will lock all four without drifting to one side or another. That said you still will not be able to stop like modern cars with wide foot print tires. There is simply not enough surface area of the tires on the road to stop quickly. As rotowrench said you have to be very observant of your surroundings when driving the older vehicles.

[Mike1291]

My car had the original steel drums on it and you can lock up all the tires like Elliott mentioned. But the improvement is in brake fade. You really only get one good stop before the drums expand from the heat. And you'll be sorry if you need to brake heavily twice in quick succession.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike1291

My car had the original steel drums on it and you can lock up all the tires like Elliott mentioned. But the improvement is in brake fade. You really only get one good stop before the drums expand from the heat. And you'll be sorry if you need to brake heavily twice in quick succession.

Or traveling on a long down hill with lotsa curves. It gets pretty exciting.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by rfitzpatrick

But why cast iron only on front?
TKS

Easy way to make your brakes front end biased.

[fourfords]

sounds like you should go buy a Brinks armored truck and avoid this 'risky and dangerous' Model A Ford hobby.

Don't get me wrong, its your car and you can do whatever you want. My concern is that with all the modifications you recommend, you are trying to turn the Model A into something different and wasn't designed to do. That is: Making a 90+ vehicle to compete with modern cars and modern city traffic. That's why I didn't buy a Model T. Sometimes someone will ask "Why do you drive a car that's so slow?" I reply, If I wanted to go faster, I'd buy a faster car!" That's why they made Shay Reproductions. I think these cars are very charming and an important historical piece of Americana as is.

Practical things like cooling fans that had problems during the Model A era are common sense items to be updated to accommodate safer metallurgy.

[JayJay]

I agree with Bob B about sensible upgrades over original to improve your chances of seeing and being seen. I also agree with Keith True about the “armchair experts” who expound, often vociferously and adamantly, without investment. Here in California motorcycles are allowed to “lane share”, which means that a motorcycle can pass between two lanes of traffic if there is physical room even if not a full open lane. Very useful in beep-and-creep traffic, and quite reasonable if done carefully and respectfully. I cannot count the number of people who used to tell me how stupid I was to do this - none of them riders themselves. (I don’t ride any more, but for different reasons than traffic safety).

And Brent - to your point, it seems to me that a good portion of the cars I’ve seen on club tours that end up with roadside seminars were previously restored (maybe back in the early heydays of this hobby) but maybe not a whole lot of attention since then. We are spoiled by modern cars being so reliable. Hell, you don’t even need to check your tire pressure any more, just wait for an idiot light! I remember my dad had a first weekend of the month routine that included tire pressure, battery water, oil, transmission, air filter, rear end, lights, belts, hoses, and likely more. Not to mention things that were mileage-driven like oil change, lube and valve adjustment. I know I am guilty of pretty much ignoring my own modern cars, maybe because they are not much fun to work on (how excited can you get changing oil on a Prius?) But I do try to keep up with the Model As.

[Bob Bidonde]

My post lists things as a minimum, so as a minimum cast iron brakes in the front. I did not include seat belts as a minimum must have because many installations I have seen in Model A's would not withstand crash loading.

[nkaminar]

I will go with Bob on this one. A few years ago I got a completely stock 29 Fordor running and really missed the outside mirrors and turn indicators that my car has.

The mechanical brakes can be just as effective as juice brakes if they are in good shape. I have added the Flat Head Ted kit to mine and they help a lot. It also helps to bias the brakes to the front rather than the rear, which is taught by every "expert."

In the 1950's I drove a completely stock 1930 coupe all over California. But the traffic and the amount on cars on the road was much different then.

[ronn]

AN interesting fact is where Bob lives and where you live Brent. I agree to keep the cars mostly original, but if you havent driven in LI traffic, you havent driven..............


I know Ten U Cee is building up, but still mild compared to LI. I used to drive up there and will never go back. Life is too short.

[clifforddward]

I'll agree with Bob on this minimum list of alterations...I just finished a total re-wiring in conjunction with conversion from 12v negative ground back to 6v positive ground...Along with that project I added LED turn signals in the bumper bars, additional LED brake lights in the rear bumper, and LED headlights. In the week since completing this rewiring project I have driven the car daily, and traffic seems to notice me more and offer more courtesy...at least it seems that way to me...I know I feel better about my safety in traffic.

I did the rest of Bob's list already in the past.

Only thing I will add is a battery disconnect...I added this with the wiring project...makes it easy to shut down electricals in the car with one flip of the switch...easily accomplished while I am shutting off the gas on my late '31.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

I did not include seat belts as a minimum must have because many installations I have seen in Model A's would not withstand crash loading.

That's an isolated demand for rigor. We all know that configuring the brakes properly is the actual step that increases safety. I've seen lots of unsafe cars with cast iron brakes. I've seen plenty of reproduction wiring jobs that made the car less safe. Why are seat belts the only modification that you think has to meet an arbitrary standard?