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Old 08-27-2021, 08:12 AM   #1
Ron_r1959
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Default Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

I am in the process of starting a 40 ford Pickup rebuild project and am considering building a stoker motor from a factory relieved block. I have read a little of the comments on here about the pros and cons of them . My plan is to bore the block to 3-5/16 and use aa 4-1/4" stroke crank. it will be ported, and have the usual things added to it but I do have to use the original type carb, distributer, and a single exhaust. I am aware of the relieved block having a slightly lower compression ratio, my question is, would the Canadian ford built heads help? I can't find much information on them . I don't want to use aftermarket heads for this project since I want it to appear factory. Is there any advantages of using the relieved block? I was hopping it would breath better? I am looking for someone with experience with them both ways I guess. Thanks
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Old 08-27-2021, 08:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

There really won't be any advantage to a relieved block for what you're doing (given the single carb setup) - but if you have a good block, I'd surely not be afraid to use it. Starting with a known good block will make your life a lot easier.

Given that you're only going to run one carb, you might want to consider one of the 'Big 97's' - it will at least look the part. You may have to be selective in which original style intake you use - such that you can bore the intake (at the top) for the larger carb. If you don't put more carb on it and only run a single stock Holley 94 type carb, you're not going to be doing much good with all the cubic inches you'll have - as you won't be able to feed them. So think about your plans and the carb-manifold before you head down the path.

If I was going to stick with a single carb (even a Big 97 at 250 CFM), I would lower my cubic inches and probably build an engine with a 4" Merc crank and a more conservative overbore - like .060. If you don't have the carbs for the cubes . . . they don't make a lot of sense.
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Old 08-27-2021, 08:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

We have done work with the carbs before and know some of the tricks you are hinting at, I do have a good unrelieved block that we could also use. The past motors were 4-1/8" strokers, this would be the first 4-1/4" motor we have played with.
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Old 08-27-2021, 08:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Does anyone have experience or information on the Canadian heads?
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Old 08-27-2021, 11:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

I have Canadian heads on my sedan. They have less pocket in the area between the valves and the bore. That's where the higher compression comes from.

My engine is a 3-3/8" by 4". Not really a killer motor though, I think because the old unknown cam isn't quite as radical as it could be.
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Old 08-27-2021, 12:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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I have Canadian heads on my sedan. They have less pocket in the area between the valves and the bore. That's where the higher compression comes from.
My engine is a 3-3/8" by 4". Not really a killer motor though, I think because the old unknown cam isn't quite as radical as it could be.
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

You are starting off with 2 1/2 strikes against you with an early block.
Ford found they didn't work in stock applications and moved the valves. They definitely don't last very long in a race engine.
Cracks between the valve seat and cylinder is the problem in case you hadn't heard.
The relief was not the problem, the closer distance of the valves to the cylinder was the culprit.
With the cubic inches you will have, compression will be no problem. You can run any heads and still have too much for gas.

In ANY performance engine, a relief helps. It has to do with moving the charge path closer to the cylinder. Flat top pistons help to shorten the path also.
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Old 08-27-2021, 03:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

I agree with B&S and Peter here A 284 ci engine with a 2GC carb on a bored Merc intake will feed the engine quite qwkk and a set of EAB heads will put the CR close to 9:1. Get a dist. from Charley NY and your troubles are over. These heads will work on an early block, just plug the right holes. But a late block is worth the effort.
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Old 08-27-2021, 10:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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We have done work with the carbs before and know some of the tricks you are hinting at, I do have a good unrelieved block that we could also use. The past motors were 4-1/8" strokers, this would be the first 4-1/4" motor we have played with.
I have to say, what is the point of all those cubic inches when you're also trying to run a single small 2 barrel carb and single exhaust? Seems like one big waste of cubic inches and cost . . . only to be choked off by a small original looking carb. Not trying to be harsh, just trying to be realistic.
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Old 08-27-2021, 10:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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I have to say, what is the point of all those cubic inches when you're also trying to run a single small 2 barrel carb and single exhaust? Seems like one big waste of cubic inches and cost . . . only to be choked off by a small original looking carb. Not trying to be harsh, just trying to be realistic.
Claimer?
Class cheater?
Class rules?
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Old 08-27-2021, 10:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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Claimer?
Class cheater?
Class rules?
I gotta believe, that these days, this is not an issue in the flathead classes (If they still exist).

If I had to guess, I'd say this guy wants to beat up on some second-rate SBC powered street rods with a "stock" flathead.
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Old 08-27-2021, 10:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Flathead vintage circle track is alive and well in many parts of the country.
I am not sure what the covid thing has done to it though.
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Old 08-27-2021, 10:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Pete, I used to vintage race a lot here in the Midwest, and the major concern was always car count, not class rules, Maybe things are better in your neck of the woods.
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Old 08-28-2021, 08:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Although this goes back awhile at Danbury raceway the ruls changed allot for the car from pure stock to 2400LB modifieds. But the engine rules remained the same 258ci any flat tappet cam, stock intake.. Lap times wemt from 20 sec to 16 in 10 yearss.
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Old 08-28-2021, 01:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

It’s not a circle track race, it’s a form of a old time drag race . I understand the issue with the exhaust and carb, however in this event, it’s a very competitive group of guys trying to go as fast as possible and still maintain some limitations, at least visual limitations lol. Clear down to tire size and type. What’s inside the motor is left to speculation. Lol I realize my questions might not make sense, and I also realize the problem with a 59ab verses a 8BA, however I am stuck with the 59AB and truthfully we dont run long enough to get the cracks common to them. My question was really just about weather a relieved block would be worth messing with and if I did would the Canadian heads be a benefit or not. I appreciate all the information though. Some of it was helpful. Thanks

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Old 08-28-2021, 01:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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Pete, I used to vintage race a lot here in the Midwest, and the major concern was always car count, not class rules, Maybe things are better in your neck of the woods.
We usually have at least 25 cars. We have always had a few that think they have to cheat even if they are not winners. I never could figure that out when no money is at stake.
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Old 08-28-2021, 01:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Listening to your rules I would not use relieved block & whatever heads give most compression cast or aluminum.
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Old 08-28-2021, 01:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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We usually have at least 25 cars. We have always had a few that think they have to cheat even if they are not winners. I never could figure that out when no money is at stake.
We had those guys, too. Towards the end it got to be a real problem. Big block Chevy's, IFS, and such started showing up on a regular basis. Those guys had no idea what it was all about.
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Old 08-28-2021, 02:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Ron, Many years ago I built a 296 flatty with OFFY alum heads, Almquist 3/4 cam, alum. flywheel, Jahns pistons, Crankshaft Co. stroker kit and then used a stock 2bbl 8BA carb. There was no noticeable performance difference. If you're going to be running a 2 barrel carb you will not see any difference in the performance of your engine, except that you will have bragging rights to having spent big bucks on performance goodies and big cubic inches. Just build a good dependable close to stock engine and you will be happier in the long run. Formulate a plan and then follow it.
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Old 08-28-2021, 04:16 PM   #20
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Ron, Many years ago I built a 296 flatty with OFFY alum heads, Almquist 3/4 cam, alum. flywheel, Jahns pistons, Crankshaft Co. stroker kit and then used a stock 2bbl 8BA carb. There was no noticeable performance difference. If you're going to be running a 2 barrel carb you will not see any difference in the performance of your engine, except that you will have bragging rights to having spent big bucks on performance goodies and big cubic inches. Just build a good dependable close to stock engine and you will be happier in the long run. Formulate a plan and then follow it.
This is odd, as just going to a 2G on the '51 Merc in my '51 seemed to make a significant improvement.

When you say "There was no noticeable performance difference.", can you clarify from what? Did you run duals or a tri-carb set-up on it before?

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Old 08-28-2021, 04:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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Ron, Many years ago I built a 296 flatty with OFFY alum heads, Almquist 3/4 cam, alum. flywheel, Jahns pistons, Crankshaft Co. stroker kit and then used a stock 2bbl 8BA carb. There was no noticeable performance difference. If you're going to be running a 2 barrel carb you will not see any difference in the performance of your engine, except that you will have bragging rights to having spent big bucks on performance goodies and big cubic inches. Just build a good dependable close to stock engine and you will be happier in the long run. Formulate a plan and then follow it.
Not sure why this was the case. As I have built hundreds of engines of all makes & more cubic inches with small carburetor has always been a huge plus.
My bossís 40 coupe thatís been in ďThe Great American Race ď twice has a 3 5/16 x 4 1/4 ported. Cam. A single Stromberg 48 carb and runs like a raped ape. I personally have had it to 110mph with corrected speedo. At 65mph it sits you back in seat and keeps pulling. That was in high gear from 30mph. Was still pulling hard but I didnít need a ticket. With his knowledge and recourses I believe this is fact that cubic inches matter. This just supports what I have personally found.
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Old 08-28-2021, 05:12 PM   #22
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Not sure why this was the case. As I have built hundreds of engines of all makes & more cubic inches with small carburetor has always been a huge plus.
My bossís 40 coupe thatís been in ďThe Great American Race ď twice has a 3 5/16 x 4 1/4 ported. Cam. A single Stromberg 48 carb and runs like a raped ape. I personally have had it to 110mph with corrected speedo. At 65mph it sits you back in seat and keeps pulling. That was in high gear from 30mph. Was still pulling hard but I didnít need a ticket. With his knowledge and recourses I believe this is fact that cubic inches matter. This just supports what I have personally found.
It was probably the Almquist cam and Jahns pistons why it ran like stock....LOL.. Or they were working in the dark and put the wrong engine in.

I put a single carb on a 321 ci engine once just for fun and that thing would wheel stand if you blocked the back wheels.

There are and always will be those that don't think the laws of physics apply to everything.
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Old 08-29-2021, 08:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Ron, Many years ago I built a 296 flatty with OFFY alum heads, Almquist 3/4 cam, alum. flywheel, Jahns pistons, Crankshaft Co. stroker kit and then used a stock 2bbl 8BA carb. There was no noticeable performance difference. If you're going to be running a 2 barrel carb you will not see any difference in the performance of your engine, except that you will have bragging rights to having spent big bucks on performance goodies and big cubic inches. Just build a good dependable close to stock engine and you will be happier in the long run. Formulate a plan and then follow it.



REPLY: I was 23 and it was my first "hot rod" engine built from reading HOT ROD magazine. I can only surmise that didn't have sufficient knowledge as to what I was doing. Live and learn. Thanks for the replies. Jim
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Old 08-30-2021, 07:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

In this particular event, the cars with stroker motors are about 5 seconds faster than the stock motors. We have had both stock motors and modified versions alike , while i wouldn't say it makes a huge difference in feel , it does make a big difference on the time. We have changed the manifolds and added carbs and heads when running on the streets, and then as you say they come alive and all the work can then be felt in the seat. I understand the controversy and comments on class cheaters etc., that's just not what this class is about, its more about what you can do with a set of limitations than anything else. If you imagine what it was like street racing in the 50s and early 60s, you would be more in line with what its about. Its a event that happens once a year and has been going on for years. I am a little curious on distributer tricks if anyone has a little wisdom in that area. Drag racing tricks would be much more in line than circle track tricks.
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Old 08-30-2021, 08:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

I guess your world is kind of like having 'restrictor plates' in Nascar . . . they just limit the amount of air that can get into the engine, limiting the total HP and resulting MPH. I'd still try to run a Big 97 at 250 CFM - with a hogged out manifold!

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Old 08-30-2021, 09:20 AM   #26
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Exactly lol, same reason we can’t run dual exhaust, you can however run bigger pipe lol
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Old 08-30-2021, 10:47 AM   #27
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

Do you have to run a helmet style distributor? If so, make sure it has the 11A cam and advance mechanisms - will give you more advance (which is what you'll want). I'd surely mark TDC on the front pulley and achieve a total advance between 24 - 26 degrees all in. It is usually a bit easier to run a crab style distribuor - with the 11A mechanism, good points, etc - you should be able to handle 5500 - 6000 rpm.
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Old 08-31-2021, 11:24 PM   #28
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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Not sure why this was the case. As I have built hundreds of engines of all makes & more cubic inches with small carburetor has always been a huge plus.
My bossís 40 coupe thatís been in ďThe Great American Race ď twice has a 3 5/16 x 4 1/4 ported. Cam. A single Stromberg 48 carb and runs like a raped ape. I personally have had it to 110mph with corrected speedo. At 65mph it sits you back in seat and keeps pulling. That was in high gear from 30mph. Was still pulling hard but I didnít need a ticket. With his knowledge and recourses I believe this is fact that cubic inches matter. This just supports what I have personally found.
You must work for Jack Roush.
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

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Do you have to run a helmet style distributor? If so, make sure it has the 11A cam and advance mechanisms - will give you more advance (which is what you'll want). I'd surely mark TDC on the front pulley and achieve a total advance between 24 - 26 degrees all in. It is usually a bit easier to run a crab style distribuor - with the 11A mechanism, good points, etc - you should be able to handle 5500 - 6000 rpm.
we have to run the original type distributer that came on the pre 1941 era unfortunately.
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

I believe Diogenes is looking for this guy!
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Old 09-09-2021, 05:42 AM   #31
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Default Re: Relieved stroker motor with Ford aluminum heads

I have heard of it, but I never knew exactly where the "11A cam and advance mechanism" came from? I am assuming that it came out of a later style distributer?

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Old 09-09-2021, 01:34 PM   #32
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I have heard of it, but I never knew exactly where the "11A cam and advance mechanism" came from? I am assuming that it came out of a later style distributer?
I think it came in 41.
It does 21 degrees or more with mods.
It can be installed in an earlier housing.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:33 AM   #33
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I found this link to show you how to adjust the 11 A distributor , I thought it was pretty helpful. I have a sun machine and am currently looking for the adapter, I guess i can make it if I have to. i am hoping to find one that is reasonable If I can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqUH2ZnSSY
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:24 AM   #34
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I found this link to show you how to adjust the 11 A distributor , I thought it was pretty helpful. I have a sun machine and am currently looking for the adapter, I guess i can make it if I have to. i am hoping to find one that is reasonable If I can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqUH2ZnSSY
I have one I would sell.
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Old 09-17-2021, 10:53 AM   #35
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I have one I would sell.
I am interested
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