Touring with a Model A ?

[James Rogers]

[QUOTE=Jordan;494569]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Jordan,

[COLOR=black]Jordan, I can honestly see how your brother would be frustrated wih you carry all those items.

Logan was the one who made the comments, not me. But I'm not really sure why you worry about what's in our cars. We don't just carry for ourselves, we carry for everyone on the tours because it's easier to slap a spare part on the car than to bitch at someone for not preparing their car properly. We don't just go up to the ice cream store like a lot of people. It's not uncommon to go on 1,000 mile trips over a three day weekend or something. I still think it's better to be prepared than to be underprepared. it's easier the put on an extra carb than to wait for the one that's on the car to cool down, then take it off, fiddle with it, put it back on and then maybe it'll work.

A lot of Model A, or in your case also a lot of Model T people trailer their cars to tours, then drive them around on the tours, and then load them back up. It's not necessary to carry a lot of parts for people like that because if something breaks, just load it up on the trailer.

I don't know Jordan, when you do tours of 180 miles in such desolate areas as the Badlands of South Dakota, breakdowns are as apt to happen as in your driveway. I have toured with Ross, Rob and many miles with Brent and have never carried more with me than a small tool kit and once a head gasket for the trip to the nationals in 03. If I tour I want to be with people like those I just mentioned because they just can fix anything like Henry expected those who bought these cars could, with a pair of pliers and a wrench or two. I guess the old saying "Birds of a feather, flock together". It is a simple car and takes simple common sense to keep running. As for the head gasket, I found even with a blown gasket, the car will keep running for many, many miles without any attention to the gasket and not harm the car or cause it to quit. T's or A's they are forgiving vehicles that were built for the masses that were ignorant of the workings of internal combustion engine. These people learned in the simplest way, how to keep a car running and kept the USA on wheels. You got to remember, Henry and the engineers were not with any of them after the initial warranty ran out and they still kept them running enough to settle the west, many driving their families from the far east to California in 10 and 20 year old cars.
John, it is fixed, drive it anywhere you want because, you won't get the chance again, life is short.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Jordan, I think you are comparing totally two different cars, ...and two different items regarding tools vs. spares. No one is saying they don't break down nor that you shouldn't carry tools but re-evaluate what is being said by others, then you.

First off, a Model-T is much more primitive in engineering and manufacturing than what an 'A' is. They are going to break with more frequency however there is probably as many if not more long distance touring done with the T's than A's.

Second, Ross is a very wise individual when it comes to things mechanical but based on the stories you tell, I refer you back to my first point. These deal with a much more primitive vehicle.


Now when I look over your list, I cannot help but question "why" on some things. I am relisting them taken from your text above:

a rubber mallet, For doing what? Why not a regular hammer and be done?
starter, Rebuild the one on the vehicle properly and then carry a crank!
alternator, Again, a generator is easy to work on and reliable when properly rebuilt.
zenith carb (for others, i have a weber on my car) Why? What breaks on a carburetor that cannot be repaired on the side of the road??
cotter pins, OK but a length of safety wire serves multiple uses.
2 jugs of water, Again, WHY?? Repair/restore the car properly and there is not a need to carry water.
a fan REALLY? Why is a fan even needed?
tubes A good spare tire can usually get you to the next town where there is a tire repair shop that can fix the flat tire.
distributors I realize WHY is becoming a redundant word but why does someone need to carry multiple extra distributers? Restore the one in the vehicle and use it for 25,000 miles!!
fan belts A fan belt should not have any tension. If the one on the vehicle is become aged, replace it and be done with it. No need to carry multiple belts either in my view!
hydraulic brake fluid Surely you didn't just say that!!
coils I have never known a coil just to quit totally. They will generally work long enough to get you to town to find a replacement, -which when you replace it you will likely find that wasn't the culprit anyway.
other stuff i cant think of off the top of my head.
a full engine gasket set, I have never known a copper head gasket that could not be re-used, and a small tube of silicone or Permatex can be used when the original gasket cannot be reused as-is.
torque wrench, Hummmm.... Is this really necessary?
spare ignition parts, I thought you already had several distributors??
trouble shooting manuals ?????
timing gear I recommend if someone is planning on touring many miles, just use an aluminum and be done with it. For the price of the one on the engine and the spare one, it is cheaper to purchase the aluminum one.
timing gear wrench See above, but in a pinch, a punch & hammer will suffice adequately.
a few other things. wow.........

Jordan, I can honestly see how your brother would be frustrated wih you carry all those items. Like Tom mentioned above, what are you going to do if a radiator seam starts leaking? What would you do if the ammeter blows? What would you do if the gas tank starts leaking? Playing what-ifs and trying to prepare for each and every possibility is just a crutch in my opinion. Being able to make due with what you have at that time is what makes a great mechanic. IMO you have the ability to be a great mechanic, ....leave all that "excess baggage" at home and prove it to yourself.


BTW, I actually have toured quite a bit with Ross & Jennifer, Michael McDonald (and Rachel), the Cordes boyz, etal. Just was with them in Rutland Vermont a month or so ago.

I'm not gonna sit here and justify why i pack in my car and for what reasons. I simply do not have the time or patients to do that. I pack what i pack for a reason, and because its my car.

That being said, i now assume from all your previous statements, that when you and your team went on the great race, yall only packed luggage in that big rig yall used as a support vehicle.

Thats all i have to say about that, whether I drive on the great race, or driving from texas to colorado, im gonna pack the same parts.

[Fred K-OR]

Wow you guys make me feel like a big chicken. But guess that is what I am.

I was trying to get my coupe up and running so I could start taking it out more than the huckster on some of our club tours. So I thought I would take it on a short test drive last week. It was only about 10 miles. Well about 7 miles in the run, the old coupe decided it did not want to go on. Sputtered and died. So let it set for awhile (thought might be "vapor lock" ) and it started right up. Did the same thing about 10 times more before I got it home the remaining 3 miles. So like I said I am chicken or maybe better put, I don't have enough experience with the A to look over these little inconveniences.

Then again, it also could have been the fact I offered to give my wife her second ride in this coupe. The first ride I didn't even get it out of our driveway before it quit. So maybe giving her rides is something I need to think about in the future.

I will get on the road someday!

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm not gonna sit here and justify why i pack in my car and for what reasons. I simply do not have the time or patients to do that. I pack what i pack for a reason, and because its my car.

That being said, i now assume from all your previous statements, that when you and your team went on the great race, yall only packed luggage in that big rig yall used as a support vehicle.

Thats all i have to say about that, whether I drive on the great race, or driving from texas to colorado, im gonna pack the same parts.

Nothing wrong with what you pack, just some don't need all that. Some of us get pleasure in the confidence that our cars are gonna make it no matter what and anything that can happen can be fixed without carrying another car in parts. It's all good, this is why there are Fords Chevrolets and Dodges to name a few. Different strokes for different folks. You could, and probably would, be a handy guy to have when something breaks.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Wow you guys make me feel like a big chicken. But guess that is what I am.

I was trying to get my coupe up and running so I could start taking it out more than the huckster on some of our club tours. So I thought I would take it on a short test drive last week. It was only about 10 miles. Well about 7 miles in the run, the old coupe decided it did not want to go on. Sputtered and died. So let it set for awhile (thought might be "vapor lock" ) and it started right up. Did the same thing about 10 times more before I got it home the remaining 3 miles. So like I said I am chicken or maybe better put, I don't have enough experience with the A to look over these little inconveniences.

Then again, it also could have been the fact I offered to give my wife her second ride in this coupe. The first ride I didn't even get it out of our driveway before it quit. So maybe giving her rides is something I need to think about in the future.

I will get on the road someday!

Doesn't sound too serious. Is your tank fairly clean? Do you have the small filter that fits into the top of the shutoff valve? If not fix these two items and go on to the sediment bulb and carb. No point in cleaning a carb if junk keeps getting sent to it.

[Don S]

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Fred, also make sure the gas cap is vented

[Dick Carne]

I agree with those who have expressed an affirmation that these cars are quite capable of going great distances provided the mechanicals are in good shape to begin with. My nephew and I drove two of our cars to French Lick a couple of years back (from the Atlanta area) without so much as checking the points in either car ('29 touring and '28 roadster pickup); bear in mind though that both cars have been gone through and to the best of our knowledge and ability, are both in good shape. Another friend and his wife (along with another mutual friend) drove their two '31 coupes to the Arctic Circle and back last year (over 11,000 miles each), so there can be no question but that these cars are quite capable of going long distances, and usually trouble-free miles, if the key components are well maintained. I would not be hesitant in the least to strike out for any destination I chose - as Brent alluded to earlier, my only caveat would be to acknowledge a safe and comfortable speed. That said, go for it!

[Fred K-OR]

Tom and Don. Yes I have the checked the things that Tom suggested and the gas cap seems to be vented. The cap has the holes around the threads and the 4 holes in the center but it is an aftermarket cap. The tank seems to be clean but I think I need to do some more checking on that and make sure the cap is OK. I have an old cap around here that I may try. I think you guys are correct-the problem has to be in these things. Because after letting it set for a little while, it would start again.

Thanks for the ideas.

[700rpm]

Fred, if you want some assistance, give me a call. Always glad to help if I can. You must have gotten the radiator thing figured out.

Ray

[Popeye31]

Fred K-or make sure the petcok does not have trash in it or if you used teflon tape that it didn't squese out in to the fule path. thats what happen to a guy in my club. just a nother thing to check.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Wow! I was going to sit this one out---BUT, just remember that many have great mechanical & diagnosing skills that we sometimes take for granted, also there are many that didn't work in fields where these skills could be acquired, they've studied the cars & learned many basics & can change assembled components 'aside the road when cars are whizzing by so close & fast that you think one will surely suck your wallet right out of your butt pocket!! Don't criticize them for "OVERPACKING!" We all should be our own man & do what satisfies OLD #1.
Dollar to a doughnut, there's probably none of us, at one time or another who hasn't said, "DAMN! I wish I had brought this or that-----and had to improvise greatly to get that trap runnin!' Again, its the guys with lot's of skills that usually can improvise with bubble gum to secure a rotor with a broken inner key, baling wire to jump across the terminal box cover nuts, a big stick to wedge a gererator that lost a mounting bolt nut, string to hold a distributor cap on, also string to replace a broken off gas line ferrule!
So, my friends, pack to suit OLD # 1. I don't know how to swim, but if I could, when I went to the beach, I would take Band-Aids in case I got bit by a SHARK! (I}> Bill W.

[Popeye31]

So, my friends, pack to suit OLD # 1. I don't know how to swim, but if I could, when I went to the beach, I would take Band-Aids in case I got bit by a SHARK! (I}> Bill W.

Bill I Couldnt have said it better my self.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by Popeye31

Fred K-or make sure the petcok does not have trash in it or if you used teflon tape that it didn't squese out in to the fule path. thats what happen to a guy in my club. just a nother thing to check.

Sorry about hijacking this thread but thought I would give some of you who gave me some ideas, what I found.

I took off the carb, found a bunch of very small rust particles in the inlet strainer and in the inlet above the float valve. Also some rust in the bottom of the carb. Blew out the carb. Drained the gas tank and took off the shut off with strainer in tank, the fuel line, and the cast iron sediment bulb. Not much rust in the strainer in the tank, had all kinds of rust in the sediment bulb. Also found the new strainer I had put in the bulb earlier all bent up. Looked inside the bulb and found the top end of an old strainer still in the bulb and rusted to the top part of the bulb. Took old part of the strainer out, cleaned out a lot of rust inside the bulb and put everything back together. Added new gas and started the rig. Ran fine.

Guess my uneducated guess of what happened to me when it quit on me during my 10 mile run is: To many very fine rust particles that got through all the filters, got built up in the carb and the shut down the amount of gas getting to the carb. So I think my again unprofessional solution at this time is to get a new type of glass sediment bulb so I can capture some of the very fine rust that is getting in from the tank. I know, I should pull the tank and clean it but my theory is that the glass bulb will give me an idea how much rust is getting through. Due to the fact this car was not used much in the past few years, I assumed this rust was produced in the tank and now it is starting to work its way out. I hope the glass bulb will pick up this stuff, I can see it and throw it out and hopefully it was go away over a period of time. Guess if it doesn't, I can always pull the tank and clean it.

So anyway, this may be my solution to what I assumed was "vapor lock". Time will tell when I get it back on the road.

[700rpm]

Fred, hang onto that cast iron bulb if you decide to go with a glass one. You'll be glad later.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Fred, hang onto that cast iron bulb if you decide to go with a glass one. You'll be glad later.

Ray, I plan to. BTW I did get the radiator thing solved. I decided to get a 1929 chrome shell from Bert's and use the old radiator. It works great. This rig is going to be a driver anyway.

[Junior]

700rpm Just replaced by cast iron bulb with glass one. I like the idea of seeing the gas to make sure it's clear. It did keep the original cast iron bulb. Is there a known issue with the glass bulbs? Just trying to soak up all the info I can about the A.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Junior

700rpm Just replaced by cast iron bulb with glass one. I like the idea of seeing the gas to make sure it's clear. It did keep the original cast iron bulb. Is there a known issue with the glass bulbs? Just trying to soak up all the info I can about the A.

There have been reported problems with the gaskets and ethanol, but other than that, no issues I know of. I just think it's a good idea to hold on to stock original stuff, and the cast iron bulbs aren't being remade.

[columbiA]

If I had an "A" with a C I sediment bulb ,I would keep it as it is easy to drain some gas out to remove rust particles or to drain some into a gallon can to drain the tank without disturbing the gasket each time as would be the case with the glass bowl.

[Fred K-OR]

I think if I remember correctly, the glass bowl started to be used in late 1929. So if I read that correctly, they would have be "original" as of that date.

But I am going to keep my CI one because that is what was on this rig when I got it. But in the mean time, I want to see how much "junk" is comming out of my tank and getting in my carb. I hope this will show me if I have to remove the tank to clean it. I did order another gasket that is suppose to be one to use with the current crapgas and so that way I will have a replacement.

Thanks for all the ideas. I hope I have found my problem with "vapor lock".

[Karl]

Maybe I'm dumb but on all my long trips I've only ever carried the standard tools the car came with when new . The only addition I have made is a small length of safety wire -which served me well when I had to bypass the ammeter when it failed. I have a spare dizzy and carb but they sit in my shed at home. The Model A is pretty rugged.