Borg Warner Overdrive removal questions

[P.S.]

Hi Gang,

OK, here's the deal.

My Tudor came with a Borg Warner overdrive unit installed. It didn't work. Found wiring problem, and repaired wiring. All is good until we fast forward to my wife learning to drive the A. She was so confused with the operation of the OD, that it could possibly be more trouble than it's worth. She won't drive the car because she's terrified of breaking it with the OD in it (if you back up, you shatter it).

So after a LOT of thought, decided to get rid of the overdrive and just go all stock. Fine with me since I'd prefer an all-stock car, and wife would feel OK driving the A afterwards. Yes, I am aware that it won't be a "freeway car" anymore, and I really don't care. We never go very fast in it anyway.

So, a guy about an hour away with a lot of A experience has the stock parts, a workshop with enough room to do the work, and wants to help me swap out the OD for a stock rear end. In exchange, he wants to keep the OD. The question I have is- What is a really used Borg Warner overdrive worth? Am I giving away the farm (so to speak)?? Or, is this a good deal in exchange for the parts and his expertise in doing this? This guy is one of those extra nice people that has been super helpful to me in getting the A finished and road worthy. I feel like I owe him already anyway.

Thanks in advance

[Jim Brierley]

I doubt that you'll get many replies on this? The bottom line is, what is it worth to you? The BW OD with drive shaft & controls is worth somewhere between $500 and $1,000. If the guy warrants the rear end, and you are happy, go for it. Ask what ratio the 'new' unit will be, and if you have a choice go for a 3.54:1 but no less that the standard 3.78:1.

[MikeK]

I wouldn't want to give up a working BW O.D. Simple answer- Move the switch off the shift lever to a remote location just for you and just never have the wife use it. She can forget all about it.

The more complex answer, exactly how is it wired? If it has all the original parts and you have a lockout switched from the tranny, you'll never have the reverse problem. Here's a link to the complete original manual: LINK

[Dodge]

I'm with Mike, I'd keep the overdrive and just disable it when she is driving it.
But it is close to a days work to do the swap over so its probably a fair trade if
you do go that way.

[c125bob]

I went through this a few weels ago. The BW was spliced into the middle of the drive shaft. It was just to much (33%) for my car to be of much use to me. The car had a 3:54 ring and pinion so it just fell on its face when the OD was activated. In addition the OD oil was leaking down the drive shaft and filling up the rear end. I want to keep the car original and this was the only change on it. I don't miss it one bit.

If you decide to take it out make sure the rear end you get is a good one !

[1931 flamingo]

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Would you not just have to change the driveshaft and torque tube??
Paul in CT

[Richard Wilson]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Would you not just have to change the driveshaft and torque tube??
Paul in CT

That would be correct. You do not have to replace any other pieces. I installed and removed a BW overdrive conversion several times in my roadster back in the 80's. Hardest part is getting the cotter pins out of the brake rods. Unless you are in the flat lands, you will never miss it. I have never missed mine. Sold it for $200 and was happy to see it go.

[P.S.]

Thanks for the input guys.

It's all rolling hills for 30 miles in any direction from here, so the OD is worthless to us. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't taking advantage of my pal. The rear end stuff he is offering me is completely rebuilt, looks brand new.

The decision to pull the OD is already made, that's a given. I already pulled out all the wiring and the cable. Unless you crawl under the car, you cannot tell it has an OD. Wife may have assumed the OD is already out, the topic didn't come up.

Based on the appearance the OD is out... The wife did GREAT driving the car today! She even shifted from 1st to 2nd many times (never got fast enough to grab 3rd), and is almost getting the hang of the downshift. She recorded a video of the starting procedure to make sure she gets it right. Pretty slick. I don't want to do anything to discourage her enthusiasm!

After we got home from her lesson (she drove home), she said she wants a Model A truck now.

[columbiA]

When I installed Columbia O D,s in both my A,s I went to 4.11 gears for more power in high gear and the 28.5 % O D gives a 2.94 ratio for easy cruising & will still climb most hills in O D. with a B engine with 5.9 head.I dont feel safe going down a busy hiway without O D.I dont bother with O D unless Im going over 40 mph.

[Chris in WNC]

what's all this about an overdrive only being of value in flat country?

I have had Mitchell OD in both flat Florida and mountainous NC. it is GREAT in both situations for different reasons.......j.m.h.o....

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

what's all this about an overdrive only being of value in flat country?

I have had Mitchell OD in both flat Florida and mountainous NC. it is GREAT in both situations for different reasons.......j.m.h.o....

A Mitchell would be helpful in hilly country because it will allow you to still use some engine braking, even while engaged. The Borg Warner just "freewheels" when you let up on the accelerator. Gets REAL scary on a loooong downhill!

[southfork]

When you run across a R-10 or R-11 overdrive unit that is not still in the car, how do you tell if it is for Ford, Studebaker, Nash or Lincoln, etc.? What quick and dirty clues do you look for to make sure it will fit Ford?

BTW, Thanks MikeK for the link to the original Warner overdrive manual.

[Model A Man]

I am going to hijack the thread for just a moment. Even though I don't know you or your wife, tell her for me how proud i am of her and you. she should be so proud of herself for learning to drive the model A, and to you for being willing to teach her. In our club I can only think of 2 ladies that drive model A's, one being my wife. I love it when my wife is behind the wheel of her model A. I taught her to drive her model A and she does such a great job of up shifting and down shifting. She even takes her roadster out by herself. I get such a joy of seeing her smile when she is driving. I even taught her how to drive her 1930 chysler coupe. we were once in a parade and heard a by stander say "hey look it's a lady driving that car". I wish more ladies would drive the old time cars. We have such a great time with our old time cars. Thanks for letting me hijack the thread.

[glenn in camino]

Tom Endy in SoCal is the guru on BW overdrives.

[c125bob]

You do "only" have to replace the drive shaft and tube but...... the pinion gear has to come off off the BWOD shaft and go back on the "new" shaft. This requires resetting the pinion bearing load (12 inch lbs) and getting the pinion out can be testy ! It's best to keep the ring and pinion gears matched up. A different pinion may not get along well with the existing ring gear due to different wear patterns etc. X2 on the brake rod cotter pins !!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris in WNC]

[QUOTE=c125bob;524934]Yo do "only" have to replace the drive shaft and tube but...... the pinion gear has to come off off the BWOD shaft and go back on the "new" shaft. This requires resetting the pinion bearing load (12 inch lbs)

there is a tool available which allows you to pull the pinion race from the banjo without loosening the pinion nut or affecting the preload. speeds up the process nicely.

[c125bob]

If you move it to another drive shaft wouldn't you have to reset load? Just asking, I'm learning everyday !!

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by c125bob

If you move it to another drive shaft wouldn't you have to reset load? Just asking, I'm learning everyday !!

as long as the two big nuts that hold the bearings in place are undisturbed, the preload stays put.
the drive shaft is removed/replaced by removing & putting back the smaller nut that holds the whole shebang on the driveshaft.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by southfork

When you run across a R-10 or R-11 overdrive unit that is not still in the car, how do you tell if it is for Ford, Studebaker, Nash or Lincoln, etc.? What quick and dirty clues do you look for to make sure it will fit Ford?

BTW, Thanks MikeK for the link to the original Warner overdrive manual.

I'm not sure if it matters what car it came out of. "Back in the day" (late '50's) I had a 53 Merc with an OD. Used Studebaker parts to fix it once. All the same unit.

[c125bob]

OK Chris I got ya ! I didn't have "that tool" when I did mine and had to disturb the big nuts. Good to know......... like I said, this A model has convinced me that I just thought I knew something about mechanics ! I won't tell you about the puller I used to get the pinion out.