Original Headlight socket & connector hardware

[eystein]

Several threads have warned about failures in repro connectors and harness at the headlamp to harness connector.

It is a prfoblem that many cars have had the original wiring ripped out or "repaired" by previous restorers or tinkerers, so that one ( myself included) does not know what it should really look like.

It is possible that anyone who have been looking into this seriously could post some pictures and explanations on where the common repro parts (Brattons Snyders) differ from the originals and tips on any sources for original-like hardware and how to correct the repro parts

[CarlG]

This is a direct quote from the Snyder's catalog:

NOTE: The way that Ford designed the connection for joining the headlight wires to the main lighting harness wasn't one of their better ideas. If you are not a purist, I would suggest doing away with the plastic headlight plugs, gutting the socket assembly and wiring the wires directly. Quite often shorts develop where the two wires join if the lights are hooked up as Ford did.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I like the original connectors on my 1928. My camera battery is low and I can't find my charger, so it might be a while before I can take a picture of an original plug.

[ctlikon0712]

Eystein, I would like to see some pics as well. Thanks for bringing the subject up. Somthing that I have been meaning to do also.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here are three pictures showing my 1928 bulb socket and headlamp connection socket. The wires joining the two sockets are rubber coated, not cloth.
The next two pictures show the plug for the end of the headlamp wire harness. Notice the flat head on the two brass screws that secure the wires to the terminals.

I don't have any repro sockets to compare.

[ericr]

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Originally Posted by CarlG

This is a direct quote from the Snyder's catalog:

Carl I have seen that quote and I'm not directing this at you, but the quote seems like a load of baloney to me. So the Company with all assets, research and engineering abilities produced several million cars, over a multi-year period, each of which with two headlights, and kept a fundamentally unreliable design? Wouldn't dealers have complained and essentially forced a change if it was a serious problem?

The quote in reality applies to repro sockets.

[CarlG]

I only saw that "quote" in Snyder's catalog AFTER I had "fixed" mine. When I bought my truck, these connections had been cobbled together so that there was no way that they could work. My failed attempt to put it back to "original" resulted in my backyard engineering. It was only later that I discovered that what I had done was the way that many others had done it. Then is when I saw the quote in Snyders catalog. I'm with you 100% in that 10 million connectors made that way -- must have done something right. I'm sure that my 2 earlier Model As had the original connectors and they worked fine. Of course that was 50+ years ago.

[d.j. moordigian]

Thanks Tom,

Your photos helped me with my pile of sockets....I see were the problem is
with the repops. My very old repops(best guess) are made as nice as Ford's,
except for the problem..

[700rpm]

My original 1929 sockets work fine and have never been "restored". My repros all had to be reworked to get them to function, but eventually I got them to where they too worked fine. I buy originals whenever I find them at swap meets. I recently bought two of the ugliest light buckets I'd ever seen because they had original '28 sockets (and good fluted lenses) in them. The buckets are good for yard art and not much else. It's always best to keep or use original stuff if you can find it or already have it. Don't replace it just for the sake of a "total restoration", whatever that is.

[KGBnut]

One of the first things I did on my 1930 coupe was rip out the originals and replace them with repops... Nothing but trouble. This was before I found the FordBarn and discovered all this great advice.

I was smart enough to save my originals and would love to restore them, but the insulators that support the spring-loaded connectors are warped and forcing the contacts to touch.

By the way, has anybody really looked at the engineering on these things? It is amazing... Just take a few minutes to check out the TINY, high-precision brass sleeves in those flat insulators. Even if I could find the right material to replace those insulators, I have no idea how I would replace those sleeves. The wires are easy...simply soldered into the spring-loaded contacts.

Until I figure out how to properly restore the originals I simply put some modern female bullet connectors in the headlights. Here is the really good news... those modern connectors are available in .176 diameter. That is within 4 thousandths of the diameter of the ends on the original 3-wire harness (the connectors that go in the little barrel-shaped plug). I didn't have to modify my wiring harness, and haven't had a single problem since.

I still want find good originals, or restore mine, but this is a great temporary solution. (Pop always told me, "if you are going to do something temporary, make sure it is good enough to be permanent...because it probably will be.")

[Special Coupe Frank]

Some observations based on my own '28 which came with repro headlamps and repro connectors... and comparison against an complete, original 1930-31 truck headlamp and other original connector bits I have scrounged:

1 ) The metal bits of both the repro bulb sockets and the repro connector sockets are made from much lighter, more flimsy metal than the originals, so that even if made to the original sizing / tolerances, the metal itself flexes and deforms.

2) the insulating material of the original connector plug appears to be hard, precision moulded/ machined heat-resistant baekelite; repros have modern (not fit for this application) thermo-plastic plugs that soften and deform when they get hot, allowing the contact rivets & springs to mush into each other or the outer shell, causing all sorts of electrical Gremlins.

In short (no pun intended) the original Ford plugs were simply made better, and from better material.

Not to say the originals were 100% trouble-free, but the cheapo repros are absolute junk.

[Steve Wastler]

From my experiences, I have never had issues with ANY original light connections on mine or others I have worked with. I find no fault with the original design and functuality.

[eystein]

I saw a post over at the Swap Meet section from a guy wanting to contact Robert Paul in Colorado to buy headlight parts.

Is Robert Paul really into making reproduction headlight parts in addition to his shock rebuilding service ? - Or is the guy over at the swap meet section mistaken ?

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I went with repop sockets, cut the wiring connector ends off, crimped and soldered Bratton's bullet connectors on the wires of the socket and plugged them into Bratton's double barrelled female connectors and they work fine.

Good temporary fix until I get around to doing the permanent repair. Going on about 6 years now

Exactly what I did

[sethkestenbaum]

cut+crimped = HOURS of time saved dealing with short

just my opinion. I felt aweful straying from "Ford's Way", but just couldn't deal with the shorts any more.

[AL in NY]

I did the same fix as many others by eliminating the 3-wire repro connector. Can someone post pictures(similiar to Tom W's) showing the original 30-31 3 wire connector? Thanks in advance!!

[BrianBurkert]

The repro sockets have the cardboard insulator inserts. I've had them come loose and cause a short. If I have to use the repros, I reinforce the inserts with epoxy so they don't come loose.

[leo]

I used reproduction sockets and plugs from Bratton's and did not encounter any problems with them. I did replace the wire terminal ends to the blunt brass type and my headlight conduits, socket ferrules are originals. Is it possible that parts other than reproduction sockets are the cause of connection problems because things don't line up properly.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've heard some guys have used heat shrink tubing on the contacts so they fit better (tighter) in the insulator blocks.

If you have any bare wires liquid tape works very well. It costs about $5 a bottle at Fleet Farm.

[Special Coupe Frank]

I just had another headlight shorting problem with my '28-'29 repros... dead short on low-beams.

Turned-out to be the spring-loaded contacts in the bulb socket shorting against the side barrel, due to the red fibre insulting disc losing one of its little "ears" and going cock-eyed in the barrel.

Am going to find some Original Ford sockets soon...

SC Frank

[d.j. moordigian]

Frank,

Look at the size of the contacts between Tom's first photo(inside the socket) and
your repops. Are yours about twice as big in diameter? That's were I think a lot of the
problem is.

[Tom Wesenberg]

D.J. Moordigian nailed one of the big problems, and that is the contacts are too large a diameter. Here's a picture of repro sockets for the 1930 AA I'm working on. My friend had the same problem and he filed the contacts diameter down a bit. I'll use my Dremel with a grinding stone to do the same.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Might be worth a try while I'm looking for good originals...

[160B]

Here are photos of 1930-31 original headlight sockets as requested by Al in NY. They have been rewired but the plating is original.

[30Tudor]

I use a piece of drinking straw around each terminal to isolate them from each other. The straw gets compressed when the plug end or bulb is inserted. Has worked for me but is a bit finicky.

[david801]

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DSCN3429.jpg

DSCN3430.jpgI need some clairification from they guys that have made the repop headlight connectors and plugs work.
I purchased my sockets, plugs, plastic wire connector holder thingey, and brass wire terminal ends from Brattons.
If I understand correctly, I should remove the bullet end and solder on a brass terminal end.
Note the second picture, the brass connector end does not fit flush against the end of the connctor thingey. It that normal? Does the connector thingey need the hole drilled out a bit so the brass terminal fits flush?
I see where using a dremel to grind the spring loaded treminal ends helps keep them from shorting as well as using some heat shrink around the base as well.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by david801

Attachment 142250

Attachment 142251I need some clairification from they guys that have made the repop headlight connectors and plugs work.
I purchased my sockets, plugs, plastic wire connector holder thingey, and brass wire terminal ends from Brattons.
If I understand correctly, I should remove the bullet end and solder on a brass terminal end.
Note the second picture, the brass connector end does not fit flush against the end of the connctor thingey. It that normal? Does the connector thingey need the hole drilled out a bit so the brass terminal fits flush?
I see where using a dremel to grind the spring loaded treminal ends helps keep them from shorting as well as using some heat shrink around the base as well.

Bratton's catalog gives you the measurement that should be there from the back of the insulator to the tip of the brass terminal.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by david801

Attachment 142250

Attachment 142251I need some clairification from they guys that have made the repop headlight connectors and plugs work.
I purchased my sockets, plugs, plastic wire connector holder thingey, and brass wire terminal ends from Brattons.
If I understand correctly, I should remove the bullet end and solder on a brass terminal end.
Note the second picture, the brass connector end does not fit flush against the end of the connctor thingey. It that normal? Does the connector thingey need the hole drilled out a bit so the brass terminal fits flush?
I see where using a dremel to grind the spring loaded treminal ends helps keep them from shorting as well as using some heat shrink around the base as well.

David,....this should help......Single bulb headlight question....let us know.

[Steve Wastler]

David, looks like you have the brass end in the wrong side of the plug, letters on the plug go toward the bottom, you can take a rotary tool with a cut off blade and reduce the height of the repop end and it'll work just fine

[david801]

Steve, Im not sure I understand you. The brass terminal in the second picture is in the side of the plug with the color code letters. The holes for the terminal are larger on that end. I tried to insert the brass terminal into the other end but the only way it would fit was with a hammer. The latest Bratton's cataloge(page 80) says "Plastice plug part (20810) with coded letters R,Y,G are facing the headlight bucket".
I think the previous posting about the overall length of the plastic plug and brass terminal together are .680", so the brass terminal must stick out above the plastic plug? Thanks eveyone for the comments.

[rscardina]

I found this on Mac's website and was considering this option. Any advice?

[david801]

d.j.; my configuration has the three wires in the socket and is a repo all the way from the harness to the bulb. So its not very similar to what you have.


rscardina, That diagram is helpful. The main point I missed was that the combined langth of the black plastic socket with the bullet or brass terminal installed is 11/16 or .680". I cut off the bullet ends and soldered on the brass terminal ends. They look like they will make a better contact than the bullet style. I was trying to make the terminal end flush with the end of the black plastic socket. After reading everyones advice, I got the socket done. I ground down the diameter of the contacts inside of the main socket and the center bulb socket. Then I cut some heat shrink tubing about 1/4" long and put it around each of the springs behind the contact and heated it up with a pencil style soldering iron. Hopefully this will keep it from shorting. I just got it all assembled and and the lights work fine. It will be interesting to see how it holds up after a few years.

[ericr]

the extraordinary number of views, and comments, on this subject sure indicate an intense interest in resolving difficulties with these repro sockets. I sure hope I live long enough to see a quality reproduction...but they better hurry LOL.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Eystein,

On 02-18-2013 - 10:53 p.m. wrote an article herein entitled:

Sockets for Original Headlights

Extremely poor quality of "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets stories appeared to be a type of Forum Religion that if one bought them, their headlights would never function correctly -- true salvation to "see the light" came only through obtaining "Originals" on E-bay, swap meets, etc. -- then, after several years of this preaching, "Originals" were close to impossible to find.

My original sockets were too far gone because of former makeshift repairs with solder, & new wire wrapped with cloth tape.

The old religion was most accurate when repro parts a few years ago were pure junk; however, I called Mr. Walt Bratton who replied that in the past 6-7 years he had no complaints with the "NEW REPRO" sockets he currently offered -- he said if they were not good, customers would have called him to complain or would have returned them -- he said if I was not content with them, just return them for a refund.

Trusted his honest reply -- bought some from him & first tested durability by shaking them vigorously with bulbs inserted while connected to a 6-V lamp battery -- could not make them fail no matter how hard I shook them.

Soldered a ground wire on each to route back through the light conduits to a ground on the radiator.

After installing, absolutely no problems with his "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets.

Have no idea if other vendors offer these same "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets.

Just hope this helps someone who may be interested in trying to find replacement Model A headlight sockets.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Eystein,

On 02-18-2013 - 10:53 p.m. wrote an article herein entitled:

Sockets for Original Headlights

Extremely poor quality of "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets stories appeared to be a type of Forum Religion that if one bought them, their headlights would never function correctly -- true salvation to "see the light" came only through obtaining "Originals" on E-bay, swap meets, etc. -- then, after several years of this preaching, "Originals" were close to impossible to find.

My original sockets were too far gone because of former makeshift repairs with solder, & new wire wrapped with cloth tape.

The old religion was most accurate when repro parts a few years ago were pure junk; however, I called Mr. Walt Bratton who replied that in the past 6-7 years he had no complaints with the "NEW REPRO" sockets he currently offered -- he said if they were not good, customers would have called him to complain or would have returned them -- he said if I was not content with them, just return them for a refund.

Trusted his honest reply -- bought some from him & first tested durability by shaking them vigorously with bulbs inserted while connected to a 6-V lamp battery -- could not make them fail no matter how hard I shook them.

Soldered a ground wire on each to route back through the light conduits to a ground on the radiator.

After installing, absolutely no problems with his "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets.

Have no idea if other vendors offer these same "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets.

Just hope this helps someone who may be interested in trying to find replacement Model A headlight sockets.

H.L., are you saying that Walt has different sockets than other dealers?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Eystein,

1. "H.L., are you saying that Walt has different sockets than other dealers?"

A. Not at all ............ but, Mr. Bratton says he has offered "different" "New Repro" sockets for at least the past 6-7 years from those that he offered in the past, & as I stated above in message #35; & furthermore stated that:

B. "Have no idea if other vendors offer these same "NEW REPRO" headlight sockets."

3. In my opinion, these often herein mentioned respectable Model A vendors are always striving to provide the best available Model A parts available at the time -- always appears rewarding to try to do the right thing.

4. Not a bad idea to call or e-mail questions to persons "in charge" of a Model A vendor's company to see what is available at a particular time. Sometimes best to go with vendors who also offer original parts -- & each to his own.

Just hope this helps you & others.

[ericr]

well, H.L., five lashes with a Model "A" terminal box-to-generator wiring harness for me (the '30-'31 version), I should have read your comments more thoroughly. I confess this subject has been a source of huge frustration for me and I jumped the gun.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi,

We all learn as we go & we will never quit learning if we continue to seek helpful solutions to problems.

Bottom line is:

1. It appears that it may be quite possible to be able to put an end to this continuing Model A "Repro" headlight socket problem if one orders sockets from either Mr. Bratton, or any of one's favorite Model A vendors, "providing" that they promise that they can supply the exact same repro sockets as Mr. Bratton, or can supply better sockets than those sold by Mr. Bratton. Really have no idea who has what.

2. After reading so many messages about terrible, repro junk headlight sockets on this Forum & the other Forum for many years, I called Mr. Bratton for his advice, & found that his "latest" headlight sockets worked well!

3. Even though his were available for 6-7 years, with many satisfied customers, appears nobody took the time to report that these sockets worked well.

4. Then after testing & finding out that they performed well, just to help others, I wrote a headlight socket message mentioned above, (maybe number 9,673 or so), just to alert Model A owners with what appeared to be refreshing Good Headlight Socket News.

[Nodakwalleyer]

H.L., in post #35 you stated you ran a ground wire back to ground at radiator, I am switching from sealed beams back to original but need sockets, my sealed beams were grounded to headlight bucket, how were the originals grounded, thanks for all your info.

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree with Snyders suggestion. I wire mine direct with bullet ends and double female connectors. I can really see no reason to struggle with a sometimes difficult attachment that doesn't show. I have found the direct connection to be fail safe.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi,

We all learn as we go & we will never quit learning if we continue to seek helpful solutions to problems.

Bottom line is:

1. It appears that it may be quite possible to be able to put an end to this continuing Model A "Repro" headlight socket problem if one orders sockets from either Mr. Bratton, or any of one's favorite Model A vendors, "providing" that they promise that they can supply the exact same repro sockets as Mr. Bratton, or can supply better sockets than those sold by Mr. Bratton. Really have no idea who has what.

2. After reading so many messages about terrible, repro junk headlight sockets on this Forum & the other Forum for many years, I called Mr. Bratton for his advice, & found that his "latest" headlight sockets worked well!

3. Even though his were available for 6-7 years, with many satisfied customers, appears nobody took the time to report that these sockets worked well.

4. Then after testing & finding out that they performed well, just to help others, I wrote a headlight socket message mentioned above, (maybe number 9,673 or so), just to alert Model A owners with what appeared to be refreshing Good Headlight Socket News.

H. L., not to prolong your agony with me, but the fact that numerous guys have written in to relay various jerry-rigging with sockets, from using soda straws, Dremel grinding etc., seems to indicate that not everyone is selling the Bratton version. And as far as asking any vendor if they carry the quality version....would you like to buy a bridge between San Francisco and Oakland?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi ericr,

Agree with you that after reading many messages for years that there appears that quite a few Model A owners had bad luck in the past with trying to make poor quality Model A repro headlight sockets function properly & I have no idea where they bought sockets in the past.

If you do not have time to inquire & investigate if other vendors may have quality headlight sockets, just try calling Mr. Bratton.

With your offer to buy a bridge, I bought one a few years back -- the vendor was my dentist. LOL

[H. L. Chauvin]

In response to Message # 40 above, my original single bulb headlights functioned without any separate "added" ground wire at all; but upon reassembly, with new wiring harness & new sockets, I added new ground wires.

Right out of the shipping box, Mr. Bratton's new, complete wiring harness, with headlight wire connectors, connected & worked great with his new repro headlight sockets. No Dremel tool work required -- I feel sure he tested these components first to make sure that they would work. Might add, his intake & exhaust manifolds from the exact same manufacturer also align perfectly.

Possible Headlight Grounding Tips -- (Just one (1) method):

1. Prior to soldering a ground wire to the new headlight sockets inside the buckets, assemble a headlight with original reflector in the bucket, with headlight wiring, & with headlight socket holder installed to "see" where to place the solder for the ground wire so as not to interfere with the reflector installation & headlight socket holder installation.

2. Cut ground wire about 6" - 7" long to be able to rotate headlight socket holder so the single bulb can be positioned correctly to accommodate correct bulb filament positions.

3. Provide & solder a bullet wire end on one end of the ground wire so it can be connected to standard Model A wire connector. This wire connector inside the bucket can be connected to a bullet end soldered to a longer ground wire running from inside the bucket, through the conduit, & further grounded on the side of the radiator.

4. With single bulb lights, & using the 1930-31 three (3) hole headlight wire plug, one can use (1) hole for bright light wires, (1) for dim, & (1) for the ground wire.

5. Take your time & do it once.

Hope this helps.

[Nodakwalleyer]

Thanks for the reply H.L., much appreciated.

[H. L. Chauvin]

You are welcome.

[Marshall57]

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I have dealt with only 30,31 connecters and had the same trouble you folks are talking about. Not knowing what to do I sent a question to the tech section of the Restorer Magazine, it was answered, and the best illustration was in the Bratton's catalog. The problem I was having was that the part that holds the three wires and connects to the headlight buckets was built incorrectly. It is an easy fix but takes a little care. The problem was that the button ends of the wires did not slide into and seat into the fiber holders, they were sticking out too much and wouldn't let the thing lock together. The fix was to drill the fiber holder just a little to allow the buttons to fit down into the fiber holders, I had to look at the originals to see just how far and how big the holes are to be drilled. When I fixed them all worked as designed,,, no problems again.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by Marshall57

I have dealt with only 30,31 connecters and had the same trouble you folks are talking about. Not knowing what to do I sent a question to the tech section of the Restorer Magazine, it was answered, and the best illustration was in the Bratton's catalog. The problem I was having was that the part that holds the three wires and connects to the headlight buckets was built incorrectly. It is an easy fix but takes a little care. The problem was that the button ends of the wires did not slide into and seat into the fiber holders, they were sticking out too much and wouldn't let the thing lock together. The fix was to drill the fiber holder just a little to allow the buttons to fit down into the fiber holders, I had to look at the originals to see just how far and how big the holes are to be drilled. When I fixed them all worked as designed,,, no problems again.

so you removed the button terminals and the wires going into them to be able to hog out the holes in the fiber holder?

[Marshall57]

yes, exactly.
but they need only to go into the fiber holder to a certain depth. Also I may have had to use a larger drill but to seat the actual button into the holder,,, this part is critical because you must have enough to make contact but not too much to prevent the connection when putting the part back on the headlight bucket.

In my case the fiber holders were broken and had to be replaced so I had no choice but to use what was left of them as a template.
Also they are cheep, buy a few of them when ordering and if you over do it you can try again.

[Marshall57]

Also in my case the fiber holders had slots in them on the sides to allow the wire to be fitted into the fiber from the sides so the buttons stayed with the wires. They were good so I didn't have to do anything to the wires themselves.