The Ford Barn

denis4x4 · 08-06-2012, 09:18 AM

I realize that a lot of guys will get their undies in a bunch over this build from England, but some interesting posts (especially #25) make this good read.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=694548

Terry, NJ · 08-06-2012, 10:00 AM

This is one of the few upgrades I'd consider. One can maintain the outer appearance while having a modern powerplant. Diesel is the way of the future! I have a VW TDI Jetta and I love it. (Like all love affairs, it has a few snags) But 42+ MPG makes it very attractive!
Terry

MikeK · 08-06-2012, 10:44 AM

My undies are in a bunch!!

JoeWay · 08-06-2012, 11:00 AM

Our newest local club member Joel Rapose has a '30 roadster with a diesel engine. You can't tell until you look under the hood. I imagine he'll be along to tell his story.

Joe

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-06-2012, 12:30 PM

Did you read where the guy's dad left the fuel tap (valve) on one night and it filled the exhaust pipe where it blew the muffler open when they tried to start it the next morning? I wonder how that would/could happen based on the fuel induction system he was using??

Pete · 08-06-2012, 12:30 PM

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And for those that care about such things, it is relatively easy to get 250 hp out of a 1.5 TDI engine.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-06-2012, 12:57 PM

I was able to do a lot of traveling in southern France and northern Spain long ago, around 1970. One of the interesting vehicles I discovered was a Model B pickup with diesel 4 banger...pretty sure it was the type used in Benz sedans of the '50's and '60's.
In Andorra, the two local obsessions were hunting and smuggling in a country full of mountain goat paths, so there were jeeps all over the place. There were real wartime MB/GPW ones, Hotchkiss French army MB replicas, and early CJ's...
I stopped at a little repair shop way up the mountain and watched some natives swapping a Benz diesel into one.

Terry, NJ · 08-06-2012, 02:30 PM

AFAIK About 50% of the cars registered in Europe are diesels. Contrast that with just 3% in America. For those who haven't driven one, these are not your father's diesels. Jetta and Passats TDIs with diesels are hard to spot unless you know what to look for. And they can get out of their own way! My Jetta is rated at 90 hp. but it feels like much more. And maintainance is a little pricey. And VW is very proprietory about all it's fluids. But overall it's been a good relationship.
Terry

Terry, NJ · 08-06-2012, 02:34 PM

I was wondering the same thing. How do you fill a manifold with an updraft carburetor ???????
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Did you read where the guy's dad left the fuel tap (valve) on one night and it filled the exhaust pipe where it blew the muffler open when they tried to start it the next morning? I wonder how that would/could happen based on the fuel induction system he was using??

eagle · 08-06-2012, 03:11 PM

I think the backfire/blowup happened BEFORE the engine changeover?

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-06-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle

I think the backfire/blowup happened BEFORE the engine changeover?

Likely, ...but unlikely that it happened how he described.

roccaas · 08-06-2012, 03:51 PM

I heard tell of an elderly engineer in our town who turned his A engine diesel during WWII. Unfortunately he passed away before I could meet him and find out how he did it.

I'm imagining he decked the block to raise the compression ratio, pulled some injectors out of an old truck engine and retrofitted them to the spark holes??

ctlikon0712 · 08-06-2012, 03:54 PM

I recently vacationed in Scotland and rented a turbo Peugeot 207sw, I was very impressed with the power, lack of noise, and MPG I got. I would buy one to drive.

jrapose · 08-06-2012, 04:52 PM

I have an OPEL diesel in my "drive to work" Model A Roadster...it has almost the same torque as the Model A engine does at low speed plus it easily runs up to 6500rpm if needed....I used that for years when I had to drive in Southern California Freeway traffic...I also built front disk brakes for it, 40 Ford in the rear and used the stock 19' wheels. I amusing a stock transmission and rear end...it was almost a bolt in application...with the exception of a custom built input shaft to the transmission....and a mounting plate to the bell housing....weighs 100lb less than a stock engine and develops 65hp naturally asperated...I so have a turbo unit sitting in the garage but it is not needed ..the car runs so well I don't want to change a thing...easily gets over 40mpg and cruises easily at 60 to 65 on the road...makes a nice daily driver. No holes drilled in the body or the frame..

The best part is at the gas station when folks come up and say "your putting diesel in there, it will ruin the engine" I just smile and tell em, "Model A Fords will run on anything"

Joel Rapose
Cjester Ca.

Great Lakes Greg · 08-06-2012, 04:53 PM

Despite my boxers being fairly bunched, this isn't nearly as bad a a small block shivvy.
Actually, I am surprisingly receptive to this swap. Imagine the economy of this engine in a 2300 pound car.

dave in australia · 08-06-2012, 07:58 PM

Twenty or so years ago, I went to the Australian rod nationals, and one of the rods was an A with a four cyl. diesel. I talked a bit to the owner, and he said it got around 40 mpg, and could easily sit on 60 mph.

CarlG · 08-06-2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

I was wondering the same thing. How do you fill a manifold with an updraft carburetor ???????
Terry

You put the manifold on upside down with the carb still attached.

MVal · 08-06-2012, 08:40 PM

This discussion reminds me of an funny incident we had in 1994. We had attended the MARC/MARCA Convention in Tacoma and were heading for Canada via Hwy 9. We decided to stop for gas near the border and as I was leaving the store after paying one fellow in the group told me he screwed up and put diesel in his '29 RP. He was a very astute fellow so I dismissed it and we left for lunch at a nearby restaurant. When he finally arrived, he said yes, he had screwed up. He made a deal with the station to use a garden hose to put the diesel back into their underground tank and refill with gasoline. So there he was parked in the parking lot with a garden hose from the engine compartment running over the concrete slab to the tank inlet for 15 minutes or so which got a few stares. One fellow walked over and asked what was going on and my friend, who incidently had a very good sense of humor, told him "well these darn Model A's get such good mileage that I have to drain some gas off every once in a while to keep it from overflowing"!! Everyone had a good laugh after he explained what really happened and he didn't have any trouble with "vapor lock" the rest of the trip!!!

Chris in WNC · 08-06-2012, 09:58 PM

fortunately my undies are un-bunched.
actually, I'm not wearing any. it's summer. be comfortable.
I like the high mileage diesel engines achieve, but the higher cost of the fuel puts me off.
NJ Terry, how does your cost per mile compare to a similar car burning gasoline?

Kurt in NJ · 08-06-2012, 10:02 PM

A 240D mercedes engine is about the size of an A engine, 60 or so hp, nice heavy iron ---but I think a 190D 2.2 would give the best fuel mileage,in the 190 car with 5 speed they got up to 50mpg , a 2.5 turbo would be a good fit, an 80s Peugot diesel wagon had a closed driveshaft.

The WWII diesel conversions were not real diesels, they heated the fuel very hot, and the carb was heated to vaporize the heavy fuel, actually they were dual fuel, started on gasoline ---I have even seen a Packard that was converted, there was a small 1 gal tank attached to the radiator rods, long shafts for the valves to the dash--2 headgaskets for lower compression-the owner was a boat captain, gas was rationed, fuel for diesel boat was no problem---this conversion tended to be hard on the engine, i later heard that the valve seats were all cracked on the packard( I was 32$ low on my sealed bid, it still was a good deal at 2255$)

i saw a picture of a conversion done to an A, the fuel pipe was wrapped several turns around the ex manifold, there was a box around the carb for heat---I guess a tillotson wasn't very good for this conversion

I have 3 older S class benzes, 2 are diesel, 1 gas, gas 14mpg, diesel 25mpg ---on the road --gas 18 mpg, diesel 32 mpg----an A with a 2.5 turbo would probably get 35mpg at 60-70

Terry, NJ · 08-06-2012, 10:34 PM

Chris, It's been a long time since I figured it out. Actually I figured out a break even price as diesel went up. It was like a $0.50 a gallon differential (IIRC) and we never got that high. However, Where VW gets you is on oil changes. Figure about $35-40 for just oil and filter. The oil is 5qts of 15-40 Synthetic. I was told by the VW dealer that Castrol Syntec is acceptable as a substitute. so I use the Castrol. The filters are a P.I.T.A. They are not the spin ons that we're used to. They are a cartridge filter ala early Ford or Chevy, they go into a canister that must be cleaned before installing the new filter. I've complained more than once about VW's love of proprietory pruducts, Such as brake fluid and ATF. They get $300 to change the ATF. One dealer wanted $600. WTF, It's only 4 quarts! You can't drain it! or fill it! However, The car's handling is superb. It's comfortable. And worth the money if you can put up with these annoyances.
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

fortunately my undies are un-bunched.
actually, I'm not wearing any. it's summer. be comfortable.
I like the high mileage diesel engines achieve, but the higher cost of the fuel puts me off.
NJ Terry, how does your cost per mile compare to a similar car burning gasoline?

Tom Wesenberg · 08-06-2012, 10:51 PM

"They get $300 to change the ATF. One dealer wanted $600. WTF, It's only 4 quarts! You can't drain it! or fill it! However, The car's handling is superb. It's comfortable. And worth the money if you can put up with these annoyances."

That's quite a change from my VW Rabbit, which had easy to do maintenance and was cheap to operate. I always got 55 to 57 MPG on the highway and not much less for local drives. It pulled much better than the rated 48 H.P. would lead you to believe.

Karl · 08-06-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

I recently vacationed in Scotland and rented a turbo Peugeot 207sw, I was very impressed with the power, lack of noise, and MPG I got. I would buy one to drive.

Same experience I was in England last year and rented a VW Passat Turbo Diesel . Man what a car ! Lots of power smooth as silk and fuel economy to die for. The only downside I can see to owning a diesel is servicing costs (and at least in this country extra taxes on diesel owners).

sturgis 39 · 08-07-2012, 01:37 AM

They should make exhaust stacks mandatory on diesel cars. The drought has caused a shortage of corn. Now we have to import corn to meet EPA mandates for ethanol gasoline.

mach0415 · 08-07-2012, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roccaas

I heard tell of an elderly engineer in our town who turned his A engine diesel during WWII. Unfortunately he passed away before I could meet him and find out how he did it.

I'm imagining he decked the block to raise the compression ratio, pulled some injectors out of an old truck engine and retrofitted them to the spark holes??

With that compression ratio, I wonder how he got the crank and rods to hold up

mach0415 · 08-07-2012, 04:19 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

A 240D mercedes engine is about the size of an A engine, 60 or so hp, nice heavy iron ---but I think a 190D 2.2 would give the best fuel mileage,in the 190 car with 5 speed they got up to 50mpg , a 2.5 turbo would be a good fit, an 80s Peugot diesel wagon had a closed driveshaft.

The WWII diesel conversions were not real diesels, they heated the fuel very hot, and the carb was heated to vaporize the heavy fuel, actually they were dual fuel, started on gasoline ---I have even seen a Packard that was converted, there was a small 1 gal tank attached to the radiator rods, long shafts for the valves to the dash--2 headgaskets for lower compression-the owner was a boat captain, gas was rationed, fuel for diesel boat was no problem---this conversion tended to be hard on the engine, i later heard that the valve seats were all cracked on the packard( I was 32$ low on my sealed bid, it still was a good deal at 2255$)

i saw a picture of a conversion done to an A, the fuel pipe was wrapped several turns around the ex manifold, there was a box around the carb for heat---I guess a tillotson wasn't very good for this conversion

I have 3 older S class benzes, 2 are diesel, 1 gas, gas 14mpg, diesel 25mpg ---on the road --gas 18 mpg, diesel 32 mpg----an A with a 2.5 turbo would probably get 35mpg at 60-70

Yep. I have owned 3 Benz with the turbo 5 OM617. My 85 SD gets 27-30hwy. Very nice to drive and good mileage for a car that size.

zoie73 · 08-07-2012, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

i saw a picture of a conversion done to an A, the fuel pipe was wrapped several turns around the ex manifold, there was a box around the carb for heat---I guess a tillotson wasn't very good for this conversion)

I think this is what it looked like.

sturgis 39 · 08-07-2012, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roccaas

I heard tell of an elderly engineer in our town who turned his A engine diesel during WWII. Unfortunately he passed away before I could meet him and find out how he did it.

I'm imagining he decked the block to raise the compression ratio, pulled some injectors out of an old truck engine and retrofitted them to the spark holes??

The model "A" will run on kerosine. I do not think they raised the compression and used injectors.They had tractors in the old days that would start on gasoline and when the engine was warm they would switch to a diesel fuel.

There is a goofy farmer that adds diesel to his gasoline in his S-10 pickup. The crank case is usually overfull because not all of the diesel burns. He thinks he is saving money.

Terry, NJ · 08-07-2012, 09:06 AM

Tom, VW follows an auto industry trend to make us take the cars we buy back to the dealers to empty the ashtrays! They don't want us touching our cars. Actually, I much prefer my SAAB 9000, 200+hp,turbo, 31 mpg, handles like a dream. Runs on anybody's 10-30 oil. trans (5 spd) uses the same thing. Anybody's antifreeze and dot 4 brake fluid. Still looks great after 170k, runs great, and rides great! So why did SAAB allow it's self to be bought out by GM? I knew it was the beginning of the end for SAAB when they were bought by Government motors.
Terry

That's quite a change from my VW Rabbit, which had easy to do maintenance and was cheap to operate. I always got 55 to 57 MPG on the highway and not much less for local drives. It pulled much better than the rated 48 H.P. would lead you to believe.[/QUOTE]

Mart · 08-07-2012, 11:06 AM

Believe me, guys, diesels are the way forward. Developments in diesel design have made leaps and bounds in the last few years.

I'll stick to my Flattys for now, but I don't use them every day.

Mart.

jrapose · 08-07-2012, 11:26 AM

That was one of the deciding factors for me, I need to go modern highway speeds and be able to hard accelerate if needed in that miserable SoCal traffic...I got off work at 10:30 at night and so safety was real important to survival. The bolt in diesel was a great answer...and somedday I will reinstall the original engine...it sure made a driver out of the roadster...quick and nimble..plus easy to service..I converted the filters to spin-on units...and at over 40mpg that 10 gallon tank stays full longer... I like it... I did pressureize the radiator so I could use a hot water heater mounted under the dirvers seat....roadsters get cold in the winter...especially now that I live in the mountains...lots of snow in the winter... just ordered my winter tires yesterday...195 80 16 that I will chain up when needeed. (and run that heater)

Joel in Chester Ca.

tdub2112 · 08-07-2012, 11:31 AM

What I really want is a little diesel pickup. I'm not talking a half ton truck or anything (although they should put them in while their at it) But just a little Ranger sized truck with a little 2.0L. All i need is something that can haul sod on a weekday and dirt bikes on the weekends . . . all the while getting 40+ mpg.

Diesels really are the way of the future. If California would back off on emissions standards (sorry California members, but we all know it's true) then we might be able to get somewhere with small diesels.

Mart · 08-07-2012, 12:03 PM

I'm not sure about this, but the grade of diesel fuel we use in Europe either isn't available in the USA or is only recently starting to become available. The company I work for test diesel cars in the USA but have to make special arrangements for diesel fuel. USA pump diesel is not the same as Euro diesel.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-08-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrapose

That was one of the deciding factors for me, I need to go modern highway speeds and be able to hard accelerate if needed in that miserable SoCal traffic...I got off work at 10:30 at night and so safety was real important to survival. The bolt in diesel was a great answer...and somedday I will reinstall the original engine...it sure made a driver out of the roadster...quick and nimble..plus easy to service..I converted the filters to spin-on units...and at over 40mpg that 10 gallon tank stays full longer... I like it... I did pressureize the radiator so I could use a hot water heater mounted under the dirvers seat....roadsters get cold in the winter...especially now that I live in the mountains...lots of snow in the winter... just ordered my winter tires yesterday...195 80 16 that I will chain up when needeed. (and run that heater)

Joel in Chester Ca.

Joel, specifically which Opel engine did you use, and what year/make/model vehicle did it come out of?

MrTube · 08-08-2012, 10:36 AM

I don't know if I completely agree that diesels are the future.
I drive a Chevy Sonic (if you can't say anything nice............) and its 138HP and will squeak out 42MPG highway with the A\C ON running 87 octane which we all know is cheaper than diesel.

While the Sonic is no sports car 0-60 in 8.8 seconds is fast enough for me.

To keep this discussion proper for the forum, Ford also has some decent gas engines out producing amazing fuel mileage with impressive power.

dumb person · 08-09-2012, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdub2112

What I really want is a little diesel pickup. I'm not talking a half ton truck or anything (although they should put them in while their at it) But just a little Ranger sized truck with a little 2.0L. All i need is something that can haul sod on a weekday and dirt bikes on the weekends . . . all the while getting 40+ mpg.

Diesels really are the way of the future. If California would back off on emissions standards (sorry California members, but we all know it's true) then we might be able to get somewhere with small diesels.

We had those in my country but i think the salt air ate them all.
Diesel was half the price of gas but tax & refinery costs have closed the price gap a little.

2manycars · 08-09-2012, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdub2112

What I really want is a little diesel pickup. I'm not talking a half ton truck or anything (although they should put them in while their at it) But just a little Ranger sized truck with a little 2.0L. All i need is something that can haul sod on a weekday and dirt bikes on the weekends . . . all the while getting 40+ mpg.

My thoughts exactly. VW made a little pickup from the rabbit platform back in the 80's and I wish someone would do it again. A SMALL pickup with a diesel would be great. Ford has stopped production of the ranger, so that is a dead end. Toyota has made their little pickup larger and larger, and dodge does not have a little pickup, it is mid sized. Suburu had the brat, and now has a 4 door pickup, but I would want a 2 door. For some reason, car makers increase the size of everything they make on every restyle.

theHIGHLANDER · 08-09-2012, 07:37 AM

Diesels can be amazing...

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...x/viewall.html

dayid · 08-09-2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manycars

dodge does not have a little pickup, it is mid sized.

Dodge gave all their trucks to their new brand "RAM" - the Dakota is no longer produced under either brand.

Terry, NJ · 08-09-2012, 08:03 AM

In the US, We pay MORE for diesel. It wasn't always this way. Diesel used to be about 70 - 90% of the cost of gas/petrol. Then it went up to about 110-120% of the cost of gas. So in trying to figure this out, I came to the conclusion (Possibly incorrect) that it's in the higher refining casts due to the low sulphur content mandate. also, we can no longer use heating oil in them. For larger vehicles (Small vehicles will be next) there are roadside inspections. And to accommodate the inspectors, they dye anything non road taxed, red. Woe to he who gets caught with red fuel in their tank! and to further accommodate them, they have a short section of clear fuel line. They don't even have to sample it.
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

I'm not sure about this, but the grade of diesel fuel we use in Europe either isn't available in the USA or is only recently starting to become available. The company I work for test diesel cars in the USA but have to make special arrangements for diesel fuel. USA pump diesel is not the same as Euro diesel.

Keith True · 08-09-2012, 08:45 AM

Diesel never really was much cheaper,if at all.It just looked it at the pump.We always had to file our quarterly fuel reports,and send in the tax.In the early 80's it was about 22 cents per gallon.We had to figure the mileage per state traveled in,and pay each state.That is why it was never collected at the pump back then.In the late 80's they went to apportioned plates.The tax was collected at the pump,it was about 25 cents by then,and we filed our fuel reports stating how many miles traveled in each state.Then the state doles it out to the others according to our reports.I went through the red fuel thing a few years ago.I carried a copy of the law after that.It states colored fuel shall be basis for sampling and testing,and not the basis for a fine.Thousands of us used a quart of ATF in each tank at fillups.I never got to see a guy in a black robe about it,I got a letter saying my citation was without merit.My old boss got nailed for around $10,000.His driver had put about 50 gallons of untaxed high sulfur fuel in the dump truck,he used the wrong pump at the shop.He had purchased 2000 gallons of untaxed off road fuel,so the feds figured he had traveled 12000 miles on it with the truck.Not true but there was no way to disprove it.They're starting to bother the veggie oil boys a little too.We're supposed to be paying road tax on miles traveled in those greasecars too.Most are not even aware of that,and the few I know of that are aware are doing nothing until caught.If I had a greasecar that's the category I would be in.

Purdy Swoft · 08-09-2012, 10:30 AM

Though I like the sound of a 318 Detroit winding out the gears, Diesel cars and pickups never thrilled me in the least. I never fretted much over mpg in a fun car. . I never liked the smell of diesel or the rattling sound of the engine. I'm a do em like you want em guy so this is just my personal feelings. If you are a diesel mechanic and like them, diesel could be the way to go. I don't know much about diesel engines. I can fix my model A engines myself. Diesel mechanic work would be expensive. With a few period correct mods, my model A will run plenty fast. If I ever changet to a modern 4 cylinder engine I would go with a Chevy Iron Duke and a 39 transmission.

MrTube · 08-09-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Though I like the sound of a 318 Detroit winding out the gears, Diesel cars and pickups never thrilled me in the least. I never fretted much over mpg in a fun car. . I never liked the smell of diesel or the rattling sound of the engine. I'm a do em like you want em guy so this is just my personal feelings. If you are a diesel mechanic and like them, diesel could be the way to go. I don't know much about diesel engines. I can fix my model A engines myself. Diesel mechanic work would be expensive. With a few period correct mods, my model A will run plenty fast. If I ever changet to a modern 4 cylinder engine I would go with a Chevy Iron Duke and a 39 transmission.

Before anyone makes the comment "modern diesels don't smell" keep in mind ONE DROP of diesel on anything and it will stink for weeks. One drip on your hand while filling up and what a joy the ride home will be. In fact you will enjoy that nice fragrance even after washing your hands 500 times.

Bought our house last year and it had an oil burner in it piped into a plugged chimney. Besides the house stinking from that I learned every little drip I got on something would stink for weeks. Just finished the project finally last week when the oil tank went byebye.

Natural gas, sure, if not vented you won't know it and it will kill you, but at least you will still smell fresh.

jrapose · 08-09-2012, 12:03 PM

My main attraction to the Opel 2.3 diesel was the amazing mileage and the torque curve...it has roughly the same torque curve as the stock A motor yet will wind up to over 6000 if pushed...where the stock motor runs out at about 2200rpm... so I can easily maintain 60-65mph for hours with some power in reserve if needed...plus get 40 plus mpg... yes, it is noisy at idle...rattles and bangs...but above idle it is almost silent...I don't mind the smell (only on a cold morning when it smokes a tad while cold).... it was a fairly easy bolt-in process...plus it is lots of fun..

The Opel diesel is only sold in Europe, I think my motor is a 1976 model... I have a turbo from a Vauxhal but not sure if I want to hook it up...Vauxhal...and Bedford is Opel in England.
The conversion makes a really nice daily driver out of my work car roadster..I also never use RED diesel.... I just don't like cheating ...(I believe in paying taxes)
but that is the Boy Scout in me...

Joel in Chester..

08-06-2012, 09:18 AM	#1
denis4x4 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Durango CO Posts: 1,309	Diesel in a Model A I realize that a lot of guys will get their undies in a bunch over this build from England, but some interesting posts (especially #25) make this good read. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=694548

08-06-2012, 10:44 AM	#3
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Diesel in a Model A My undies are in a bunch!!

08-06-2012, 11:00 AM	#4
JoeWay Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy CA Posts: 752	Re: Diesel in a Model A Our newest local club member Joel Rapose has a '30 roadster with a diesel engine. You can't tell until you look under the hood. I imagine he'll be along to tell his story. Joe __________________ 1929 Tudor since 1962 Feather River A's

08-06-2012, 12:30 PM	#5
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,507	Re: Diesel in a Model A Did you read where the guy's dad left the fuel tap (valve) on one night and it filled the exhaust pipe where it blew the muffler open when they tried to start it the next morning? I wonder how that would/could happen based on the fuel induction system he was using?? __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-06-2012, 12:30 PM	#6
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Diesel in a Model A Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) And for those that care about such things, it is relatively easy to get 250 hp out of a 1.5 TDI engine.

08-06-2012, 10:00 AM	#2
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Diesel in a Model A This is one of the few upgrades I'd consider. One can maintain the outer appearance while having a modern powerplant. Diesel is the way of the future! I have a VW TDI Jetta and I love it. (Like all love affairs, it has a few snags) But 42+ MPG makes it very attractive! Terry

08-06-2012, 12:57 PM	#7
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Diesel in a Model A I was able to do a lot of traveling in southern France and northern Spain long ago, around 1970. One of the interesting vehicles I discovered was a Model B pickup with diesel 4 banger...pretty sure it was the type used in Benz sedans of the '50's and '60's. In Andorra, the two local obsessions were hunting and smuggling in a country full of mountain goat paths, so there were jeeps all over the place. There were real wartime MB/GPW ones, Hotchkiss French army MB replicas, and early CJ's... I stopped at a little repair shop way up the mountain and watched some natives swapping a Benz diesel into one.

08-06-2012, 02:30 PM	#8
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Diesel in a Model A AFAIK About 50% of the cars registered in Europe are diesels. Contrast that with just 3% in America. For those who haven't driven one, these are not your father's diesels. Jetta and Passats TDIs with diesels are hard to spot unless you know what to look for. And they can get out of their own way! My Jetta is rated at 90 hp. but it feels like much more. And maintainance is a little pricey. And VW is very proprietory about all it's fluids. But overall it's been a good relationship. Terry

08-06-2012, 03:11 PM	#10
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: Diesel in a Model A I think the backfire/blowup happened BEFORE the engine changeover?

08-06-2012, 03:51 PM	#12
roccaas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,300	Re: Diesel in a Model A I heard tell of an elderly engineer in our town who turned his A engine diesel during WWII. Unfortunately he passed away before I could meet him and find out how he did it. I'm imagining he decked the block to raise the compression ratio, pulled some injectors out of an old truck engine and retrofitted them to the spark holes?? __________________ 20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have no Cash, no Jobs, and no Hope...please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

08-06-2012, 03:54 PM	#13
ctlikon0712 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,609	Re: Diesel in a Model A I recently vacationed in Scotland and rented a turbo Peugeot 207sw, I was very impressed with the power, lack of noise, and MPG I got. I would buy one to drive. __________________ Wanted: Simmons Super Power Head Craig Likon 1931 150B

08-06-2012, 04:52 PM	#14
jrapose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 249	Re: Diesel in a Model A I have an OPEL diesel in my "drive to work" Model A Roadster...it has almost the same torque as the Model A engine does at low speed plus it easily runs up to 6500rpm if needed....I used that for years when I had to drive in Southern California Freeway traffic...I also built front disk brakes for it, 40 Ford in the rear and used the stock 19' wheels. I amusing a stock transmission and rear end...it was almost a bolt in application...with the exception of a custom built input shaft to the transmission....and a mounting plate to the bell housing....weighs 100lb less than a stock engine and develops 65hp naturally asperated...I so have a turbo unit sitting in the garage but it is not needed ..the car runs so well I don't want to change a thing...easily gets over 40mpg and cruises easily at 60 to 65 on the road...makes a nice daily driver. No holes drilled in the body or the frame.. The best part is at the gas station when folks come up and say "your putting diesel in there, it will ruin the engine" I just smile and tell em, "Model A Fords will run on anything" Joel Rapose Cjester Ca.

08-06-2012, 04:53 PM	#15
Great Lakes Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,369	Re: Diesel in a Model A Despite my boxers being fairly bunched, this isn't nearly as bad a a small block shivvy. Actually, I am surprisingly receptive to this swap. Imagine the economy of this engine in a 2300 pound car.

08-06-2012, 07:58 PM	#16
dave in australia Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,176	Re: Diesel in a Model A Twenty or so years ago, I went to the Australian rod nationals, and one of the rods was an A with a four cyl. diesel. I talked a bit to the owner, and he said it got around 40 mpg, and could easily sit on 60 mph.

08-06-2012, 08:40 PM	#18
MVal Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 69	Re: Diesel in a Model A This discussion reminds me of an funny incident we had in 1994. We had attended the MARC/MARCA Convention in Tacoma and were heading for Canada via Hwy 9. We decided to stop for gas near the border and as I was leaving the store after paying one fellow in the group told me he screwed up and put diesel in his '29 RP. He was a very astute fellow so I dismissed it and we left for lunch at a nearby restaurant. When he finally arrived, he said yes, he had screwed up. He made a deal with the station to use a garden hose to put the diesel back into their underground tank and refill with gasoline. So there he was parked in the parking lot with a garden hose from the engine compartment running over the concrete slab to the tank inlet for 15 minutes or so which got a few stares. One fellow walked over and asked what was going on and my friend, who incidently had a very good sense of humor, told him "well these darn Model A's get such good mileage that I have to drain some gas off every once in a while to keep it from overflowing"!! Everyone had a good laugh after he explained what really happened and he didn't have any trouble with "vapor lock" the rest of the trip!!!

08-06-2012, 09:58 PM	#19
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,458	Re: Diesel in a Model A fortunately my undies are un-bunched. actually, I'm not wearing any. it's summer. be comfortable. I like the high mileage diesel engines achieve, but the higher cost of the fuel puts me off. NJ Terry, how does your cost per mile compare to a similar car burning gasoline? __________________ our next Model A is out there in the unknown......

08-06-2012, 10:02 PM	#20
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,157	Re: Diesel in a Model A A 240D mercedes engine is about the size of an A engine, 60 or so hp, nice heavy iron ---but I think a 190D 2.2 would give the best fuel mileage,in the 190 car with 5 speed they got up to 50mpg , a 2.5 turbo would be a good fit, an 80s Peugot diesel wagon had a closed driveshaft. The WWII diesel conversions were not real diesels, they heated the fuel very hot, and the carb was heated to vaporize the heavy fuel, actually they were dual fuel, started on gasoline ---I have even seen a Packard that was converted, there was a small 1 gal tank attached to the radiator rods, long shafts for the valves to the dash--2 headgaskets for lower compression-the owner was a boat captain, gas was rationed, fuel for diesel boat was no problem---this conversion tended to be hard on the engine, i later heard that the valve seats were all cracked on the packard( I was 32$ low on my sealed bid, it still was a good deal at 2255$) i saw a picture of a conversion done to an A, the fuel pipe was wrapped several turns around the ex manifold, there was a box around the carb for heat---I guess a tillotson wasn't very good for this conversion I have 3 older S class benzes, 2 are diesel, 1 gas, gas 14mpg, diesel 25mpg ---on the road --gas 18 mpg, diesel 32 mpg----an A with a 2.5 turbo would probably get 35mpg at 60-70 Last edited by Kurt in NJ; 08-06-2012 at 10:09 PM.

08-06-2012, 10:51 PM	#22
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Diesel in a Model A "They get $300 to change the ATF. One dealer wanted $600. WTF, It's only 4 quarts! You can't drain it! or fill it! However, The car's handling is superb. It's comfortable. And worth the money if you can put up with these annoyances." That's quite a change from my VW Rabbit, which had easy to do maintenance and was cheap to operate. I always got 55 to 57 MPG on the highway and not much less for local drives. It pulled much better than the rated 48 H.P. would lead you to believe.

08-07-2012, 01:37 AM	#24
sturgis 39 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lead. South Dakota Posts: 963	Re: Diesel in a Model A They should make exhaust stacks mandatory on diesel cars. The drought has caused a shortage of corn. Now we have to import corn to meet EPA mandates for ethanol gasoline. __________________ IF IT CAN NOT BE FIXED WITH BLASTING WIRE, JB WELD OR DUCT TAPE ---IT CAN NOT BE FIXED Do not get me started on the stupidity of ethanol. I think one of the monitors is from Iowa and he will delete the thread.

08-07-2012, 09:06 AM	#29
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Diesel in a Model A Tom, VW follows an auto industry trend to make us take the cars we buy back to the dealers to empty the ashtrays! They don't want us touching our cars. Actually, I much prefer my SAAB 9000, 200+hp,turbo, 31 mpg, handles like a dream. Runs on anybody's 10-30 oil. trans (5 spd) uses the same thing. Anybody's antifreeze and dot 4 brake fluid. Still looks great after 170k, runs great, and rides great! So why did SAAB allow it's self to be bought out by GM? I knew it was the beginning of the end for SAAB when they were bought by Government motors. Terry That's quite a change from my VW Rabbit, which had easy to do maintenance and was cheap to operate. I always got 55 to 57 MPG on the highway and not much less for local drives. It pulled much better than the rated 48 H.P. would lead you to believe.[/QUOTE]

08-07-2012, 11:06 AM	#30
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: Diesel in a Model A Believe me, guys, diesels are the way forward. Developments in diesel design have made leaps and bounds in the last few years. I'll stick to my Flattys for now, but I don't use them every day. Mart.

08-07-2012, 11:26 AM	#31
jrapose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 249	Re: Diesel in a Model A That was one of the deciding factors for me, I need to go modern highway speeds and be able to hard accelerate if needed in that miserable SoCal traffic...I got off work at 10:30 at night and so safety was real important to survival. The bolt in diesel was a great answer...and somedday I will reinstall the original engine...it sure made a driver out of the roadster...quick and nimble..plus easy to service..I converted the filters to spin-on units...and at over 40mpg that 10 gallon tank stays full longer... I like it... I did pressureize the radiator so I could use a hot water heater mounted under the dirvers seat....roadsters get cold in the winter...especially now that I live in the mountains...lots of snow in the winter... just ordered my winter tires yesterday...195 80 16 that I will chain up when needeed. (and run that heater) Joel in Chester Ca.

08-07-2012, 11:31 AM	#32
tdub2112 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Idaho Posts: 9	Re: Diesel in a Model A What I really want is a little diesel pickup. I'm not talking a half ton truck or anything (although they should put them in while their at it) But just a little Ranger sized truck with a little 2.0L. All i need is something that can haul sod on a weekday and dirt bikes on the weekends . . . all the while getting 40+ mpg. Diesels really are the way of the future. If California would back off on emissions standards (sorry California members, but we all know it's true) then we might be able to get somewhere with small diesels.

08-07-2012, 12:03 PM	#33
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: Diesel in a Model A I'm not sure about this, but the grade of diesel fuel we use in Europe either isn't available in the USA or is only recently starting to become available. The company I work for test diesel cars in the USA but have to make special arrangements for diesel fuel. USA pump diesel is not the same as Euro diesel.

08-08-2012, 10:36 AM	#35
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: Diesel in a Model A I don't know if I completely agree that diesels are the future. I drive a Chevy Sonic (if you can't say anything nice............) and its 138HP and will squeak out 42MPG highway with the A\C ON running 87 octane which we all know is cheaper than diesel. While the Sonic is no sports car 0-60 in 8.8 seconds is fast enough for me. To keep this discussion proper for the forum, Ford also has some decent gas engines out producing amazing fuel mileage with impressive power. Last edited by MrTube; 08-08-2012 at 10:41 AM.

08-09-2012, 07:37 AM	#38
theHIGHLANDER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 492	Re: Diesel in a Model A Diesels can be amazing... http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...x/viewall.html

08-09-2012, 08:45 AM	#41
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Diesel in a Model A Diesel never really was much cheaper,if at all.It just looked it at the pump.We always had to file our quarterly fuel reports,and send in the tax.In the early 80's it was about 22 cents per gallon.We had to figure the mileage per state traveled in,and pay each state.That is why it was never collected at the pump back then.In the late 80's they went to apportioned plates.The tax was collected at the pump,it was about 25 cents by then,and we filed our fuel reports stating how many miles traveled in each state.Then the state doles it out to the others according to our reports.I went through the red fuel thing a few years ago.I carried a copy of the law after that.It states colored fuel shall be basis for sampling and testing,and not the basis for a fine.Thousands of us used a quart of ATF in each tank at fillups.I never got to see a guy in a black robe about it,I got a letter saying my citation was without merit.My old boss got nailed for around $10,000.His driver had put about 50 gallons of untaxed high sulfur fuel in the dump truck,he used the wrong pump at the shop.He had purchased 2000 gallons of untaxed off road fuel,so the feds figured he had traveled 12000 miles on it with the truck.Not true but there was no way to disprove it.They're starting to bother the veggie oil boys a little too.We're supposed to be paying road tax on miles traveled in those greasecars too.Most are not even aware of that,and the few I know of that are aware are doing nothing until caught.If I had a greasecar that's the category I would be in.

08-09-2012, 10:30 AM	#42
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Diesel in a Model A Though I like the sound of a 318 Detroit winding out the gears, Diesel cars and pickups never thrilled me in the least. I never fretted much over mpg in a fun car. . I never liked the smell of diesel or the rattling sound of the engine. I'm a do em like you want em guy so this is just my personal feelings. If you are a diesel mechanic and like them, diesel could be the way to go. I don't know much about diesel engines. I can fix my model A engines myself. Diesel mechanic work would be expensive. With a few period correct mods, my model A will run plenty fast. If I ever changet to a modern 4 cylinder engine I would go with a Chevy Iron Duke and a 39 transmission.

08-09-2012, 12:03 PM	#44
jrapose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 249	Re: Diesel in a Model A My main attraction to the Opel 2.3 diesel was the amazing mileage and the torque curve...it has roughly the same torque curve as the stock A motor yet will wind up to over 6000 if pushed...where the stock motor runs out at about 2200rpm... so I can easily maintain 60-65mph for hours with some power in reserve if needed...plus get 40 plus mpg... yes, it is noisy at idle...rattles and bangs...but above idle it is almost silent...I don't mind the smell (only on a cold morning when it smokes a tad while cold).... it was a fairly easy bolt-in process...plus it is lots of fun.. The Opel diesel is only sold in Europe, I think my motor is a 1976 model... I have a turbo from a Vauxhal but not sure if I want to hook it up...Vauxhal...and Bedford is Opel in England. The conversion makes a really nice daily driver out of my work car roadster..I also never use RED diesel.... I just don't like cheating ...(I believe in paying taxes) but that is the Boy Scout in me... Joel in Chester..