Stockholm Plant Badge

[dean from bozeman]

Recently I purchased a Stockholm Plant Badge. Since I own A495 I thought that it would be neat to have the pin.

A question: If the Ford plant was in Stockholm, Sweden then why isn't the name Stockholm in Swedish?

I'd like to know more about it. Any information about it would be very helpful.

Thank you.
Dean

[WTSHNN]

And shouldn't it be "Fjord"?



-Tim

[Gary in MN]

Hello Dean : If you do a search on this fourm for " Employee badges " you will find some opinions on the Stockholm plant badges. I will try to post pictures of my Stockholm badge tonight.
Gary in MN

[Joop]

A question: If the Ford plant was in Stockholm, Sweden then why isn't the name Stockholm in Swedish?

As Stockholm in Swedish is Stockholm!

[dean from bozeman]

Gary in MN, thank you for the info to do a search for "Employee Badges". If I only knew earlier...

Hopefully this will keep others from getting ripped off.

[plind]

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Hello Dean...
Model A in Scandinavia, came almost fully assembled to Denmark from the United States. The final assembly work was done in Copenhagen. Ford made ​​an assembly plant in South Harbour Copenhagen 1924 and mounted Model T until the new Model A came on the assembly line 17th Juli 1928th The first Model A was released in Denmark 09.feb 1928, it came almost fully assembled, wheels and fenders and bumpers and lights were installed in the DK .. I know that Ford headquarters in Scandinavia was Copenhagen. Have never heard of the assembly plant in Stockholm (Sweden), Model A has not been collected in Sweden. All Model A went through Copenhagen to be finish assambled and shipped to Sweden, Finland, Norway, Baltic countries and Germany (Start of production) Ford's assembly plant in Berlin started up later.

That is all i remember i this moment, i will follow up later..

Per

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by plind

Hello Dean...
Model A in Scandinavia, came almost fully assembled to Denmark from the United States. The final assembly work was done in Copenhagen. Ford made ​​an assembly plant in South Harbour Copenhagen 1924 and mounted Model T until the new Model A came on the assembly line 17th Juli 1928th The first Model A was released in Denmark 09.feb 1928, it came almost fully assembled, wheels and fenders and bumpers and lights were installed in the DK .. I know that Ford headquarters in Scandinavia was Copenhagen. Have never heard of the assembly plant in Stockholm (Sweden), Model A has not been collected in Sweden. All Model A went through Copenhagen to be finish assambled and shipped to Sweden, Finland, Norway, Baltic countries and Germany (Start of production) Ford's assembly plant in Berlin started up later.

That is all i remember i this moment, i will follow up later..

Per

Contained in the April 1931 issue of Ford News were these headlines: "The New Ford Plant at Stockholm".

It does not indicate that it was an "assembly plant" per say BUT it indicates that "Cars from the Ford transport ship at the quay, from Copenhagen, rolled into the storage department...". "Within the plant, facilities for housing 340 cars and trucks at one time provided by the car storage department". "The craneway is equipped with a 3-1/2 Ton traveling crane, and is lined with the plant's stock of spare parts in specially constructed steel bins".

I think it was just refered to as a "service plant".

Pluck

[Joop]

There is a good chance that your badge is original Dean

More info:
Click here: Ford's System of Branch Assembly Plants

Ford's branches overseas also made the transition to assembly. The first non-North American Ford assembly plant was opened by Percival Perry at Manchester, England, in 1911. The company expanded into the southern hemisphere by opening an assembly plant in Buenos Aires in 1914. During World War I, Canadian-made Fords served as ambulances for Canadian troops, British-made Fords carried ammunition, and American-made Fords accomplished many tasks for Americans. To meet the growing post-war market. Ford opened two new assembly plants, one in Copenhagen and one in Cadiz. By 1924, Ford had opened assembly plants at Trieste, Antwerp, and Stockholm. The company replaced its Copenhagen plant with a larger waterfront structure in 1924 as well, because Copenhagen was to serve as Ford's gateway to Russia and the Baltic countries. In 1925, Ford opened an assembly plant in a suburb of Paris and the following year a plant in Berlin. Meanwhile, Ford of Canada paralleled the growth of its parent in the U.S., adopting the five-dollar day and expanding across the country, opening branches in Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary, and Vancouver. Farther south, the Ford Motor Company opened assembly plants in Brazil and Mexico. Ford entered the Asian market in 1922, building an assembly plant at Yokohama, Japan.

[foxfire42]

It's very likley the badges were made overseas rather then the same manufacturer as the US badges. If this is the case isn't it possible there could be slight design differences? I've seen what is politely called Fantasy badges (Fake) but the pin on the back is usually not as well made.

[Gary in MN]

Hello again: Here is some interesting info about Ford plants.
Stockholm is mentioned.

Gary in MN.

http://fordmotorhistory.com/factories/branch_system.php

[Gary in MN]

Hi Dean: Here are a couple of observations on the Stockholm and the Fordson plant badges shown below.

Stockholm: There are less fins, the badge is flat and does not rock when placed face down on a flat surface. I have the same clasp on the back that you have. The one thing I have noticed, the Stockholm numbers are all different, and I seen a few of them.

Fordson: This badge has the same number of fins as the USA plant badges. This badge does rock when placed face down on a flat surface. The clasp is similar but not the same, and the pin is too long. This badge has sterling stamped into the back. This badge has been reproduced, Fordson 248T shows up on the bay from time to time.

Gary in MN

Stockholm & Fordson.jpg

[Brad in Germany]

Though I can not confirm it, I was told that the flat Stockholm Ford badges were used up even into the 1960's supposedly (I have my doubts). I have seen a rounded one that is more the shape of the US ones that I suspect is the older one.

Here are some others ....including one from Copenhagen:



Note the one to the lower right in the above photo with no number!

Here are a couple more (note the odd cone shape of the radiator top of #20 in this photo):


....now what number was it that you wanted on your badge :


I purchased the above two badges on an internet auction site five years ago. Neither one has a pin on the back.

Not to be a buzz kill....but rumor has it that there is a bucket of these Swedish badges that was "found" about a decade ago.....and they are slowly being pieced out to maintain their collector value. As far as I can tell, all are from the same "bucket" source.

Can anyone else provide any further details?

Fordially,
Brad in Germany now in Maryland

[dean from bozeman]

Gary, the front of my badge is identical to yours. What does the back of yours look like?

Brad, was the bucket full of original badges or fake ones? By the way, I cannot open your photos.

Thanks.

Dean

[Gary in MN]

Hi Dean: Here are the back of the badges.

Left to right: 1066 Stockholm, 248T Fordson, N1242 Rouge.
Gary in MN.

badges 003.jpg

[dean from bozeman]

Gary, I believe that my 495 Stockholm badge is identical to your 1066 Stockholm badge. Can you confirm it originallity?

Can anyone confirm or deny the originality of these Stockholm badges?

Vince by "also a reproduction" do you mean that both of these are reproductions?

Dean

[foxfire42]

Wish I had picture but for those wondering about the city spelling on some badges the Copenhagen is actually spelled as follows: I've seen, touched it, and it was traded for a Seattle badge.

København

[dean from bozeman]

Below is a letter and photo that I received from the man who I bought the badge from. I feel more comfortable now and will keep the badge.
Dean
P.S. Hey Foxfire, check the second row.


I'm 100 % sure that this badge was owned by ford motor company in Sweden.
Ford Motor Company started in Sweden 1924, they started to use the badges a few years later.
The very first badges with low numbers were made in England by Wolewis Badges LTD in Birmingham, but all the numbers around 300 and up, like yours
is made by Sporong wich is a Swedish company that made a lot of different badges, pins etc for many companies.
I've personally met the man that worked for Ford and bougt a box at an oction Ford had, when they moved into their new office, with all the badges that Ford had left, it was about 1970.
They used the badges up to around 1960 and then took them in, so the workers could not keep them, even if I think that some did.
They have all different numbers. I have one with a small # 2 at the bottum which means that the owner lost his first one and Ford have to give him a second. Same system Ford used in US.
There has never been any other Swedish badges then the radiator badge with Stockholm on.
But the really early once were a little kurved and had another pin on the back, I've some of them in my collection.

Workers badge is not a big thing here in Sweden, becase there was just Ford that used them, what I know of.
And not many people know what it is.
The first stockholm badge I saw was in US at Hershey. From that I started to researce were it came from. The man I talked about before he had several I would guess 100+ of them and had started to trade them with a man in Michigan in about 1993.
I found the man in Sweden and we becam good friends and he told me a lot about Ford history which I'm verry interested in.
The Stockholm badges I have and have had for sale have all come from him.

I enclose some picture of my collection, and if you want you can send some of yours?

If you think about it what would the cost be to make fake once with different numbers?
The faked US badges that have showed up in US have all the same numbers.
I'm sure you know about that and have read articels about faked badges written by Tim Ocallaghan.
I have sold 2 on Ebay this winter one to you and one to a man in Arizona he also sent me a letter and asked if it was a genuine badge.
I did the same explanation and he keept his badge.

That was a long explanation, I've put a lot of time into reserch about Ford badges and are much found of the history.
What is it that makes you think it´s fake? I would be very interested to hear that, and were the rumer comes from.
But I can guarente that the badge you got from me is an old genuin Ford badge one time owned by Ford Motor Company Sweden.

Do you still want your money back?

[Gary in MN]

Hi Dean: I was under the impression that my Stockholm badge was an original. I based that on the number of different Stockholm badges I have seen and have not seen the same number twice. Time to revisit that thought process.

Both Vince F. and Luke D. say the Stockholm badges are reproductions. I have no facts to dispute their claim.

Oh well live and learn. I still think it is a neat badge. Gary in MN

[foxfire42]

Dean, Great collection of Badges. I don't see the style with the oval on top with the badge number. You aren't the one that gave up the Seattle for the København are you?

[dean from bozeman]

Foxfire, this collection belongs to the gentleman in Sweden who I bought the Stockholm badge from. It is my belief that he is a knowledgeable collector looking at his collection.

Gary, I am under the impression that they may be legitimate badges. Please read the letter from Sweden that is in my post #283 up above.

Dean

[HoarseWhisperer]

Dean,

I noticed the Canada badge in the photo.

Does this collector sell online?

[dean from bozeman]

Hoarse Whisperer, he sells on eBay I know that. Why do you ask?

His handle is:
pxz019 ( Feedback Score Of 44)
100% Positive feedback

On both the badge I bought and another sold by him there was the same bid by
t***n( 964) on both. Therefore, the final price was the same. Is it shilling or a bidder wanting to buy one of the two badges...I don't know.

[Gary in MN]

Hello Dean: I was in the process of posting a responce to #16 post. However I was called away and by the time I finished typing you had posted the "letter". Very interesting letter and nice Ford collection. Now we can wait and see if Vince F. and Luke D. expand on their opinion on the Stockholm badges.

What publication did Tim O'C. article on plant badges appear ?? Gary in MN

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by dean from bozeman

Hoarse Whisperer, he sells on eBay I know that. Why do you ask?

I presumed the photo that you posted was from his collection and wondered if the Canadian badge was available.

Did I make the wrong assumption?

[dean from bozeman]

Gary and Hoarse Whisperer, I will contact him and relay each of your questions to him.

I do not necessarily want to act as an intermediary but feel that until he wants (if he ever wants) me to reveal his name/e-mail , I will keep it private.

Personally, I like the fact that we can openly and quickly discuss these things from various parts of the world. The Internet is a wonderful tool.

Dean

[LukeDahlinger]

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Originally Posted by Gary in MN

Hello Dean: I was in the process of posting a responce to #16 post. However I was called away and by the time I finished typing you had posted the "letter". Very interesting letter and nice Ford collection. Now we can wait and see if Vince F. and Luke D. expand on their opinion on the Stockholm badges.

What publication did Tim O'C. article on plant badges appear ?? Gary in MN

My opinion is this- I still think the badge is a fake regardless of who said what. Henry Ford was very anal, in today's language we'd call it OCD. It's very doubtful he would allow that abortion of a radiator shell design on items that represented his company and his mistress- the Model T.

Why would Ford have these badges made overseas when he had one of his Village Industries plants stamping out these badges by the hundreds daily?

After Henry Ford II closed down alot of the Village Industry plants badge production was contracted to outside suppliers, but this applies more to the more common 1937-63 style badge and not the Model T badges as they were phased out by that time.

I would welcome any supporting authentic documentation proving that 1) badges were made overseas and they were made with an incorrect radiator profile. Based on what I see I personally have no reason to believe any of those Stockholm badges are original.


Here's a page by Tim O Callaghan that shows some fakes. More types have been placed on the market since this page was written.
http://fordairplane.duvoy.com/fordfakes5.htm

Also worth noting-

1) I'm looking at this badge thru pictures posted on the internet, I can't physically examine it so I'm possibly missing something.

2) I do not claim to be an expert of any kind. I am merely a serious collector of 1908-1950 Ford Memorabilia and have been collecting for over 20 years Ford memorabilia of all types. Badges, Factory pieces(such as a piece of steel truss from the old B building at the Rouge, a brick from Highland Park plant etc) Fluid cans, signage, dealership items, tableware, and in certain cases literature.

So that's my opinion! I'm always looking to add information to my files, so if anyone has something I might be interested in along this line, feel free to send me a PM.

[WTSHNN]

Originally Posted by Gary in MN

What publication did Tim O'C. article on plant badges appear ?? Gary in MN

I have a photocopy of an article by Tim O'Callaghan that was included in the Nov/Dec 1988 issue of "The Way of the Zephyr." He also has a good website here http://fordairplane.duvoy.com/fordfakes.htm and here http://fordairplane.duvoy.com/fordfakes4.htm

I also have a series of reports done by a man named Jim Krucki about the various Ford badges.

Both of these were given to me at Hershey this past year by a guy who I had bought this from.

This badge is a security badge from the Ford Aircraft Engine Division in Chicago during the Korean War, a plant that was only a few miles away from where I currently live.

The same seller was also the one selling the thousand plus tool checks on a board.


-Tim

[Brad in Germany]

I have gone ahead and fixed the photos from my original post (see #12 above on page 1 of this thread):

Originally Posted by Brad in Germany

Though I can not confirm it, I was told that the flat Stockholm Ford badges were used up even into the 1960's supposedly (I have my doubts). I have seen a rounded one that is more the shape of the US ones that I suspect is the older one.

Here are some others ....including one from Copenhagen:



Note the one to the lower right in the above photo with no number!

Here are a couple more (note the odd cone shape of the radiator top of #20 in this photo):


....now what number was it that you wanted on your badge :


I purchased the above two badges on an internet auction site five years ago. Neither one has a pin on the back.

Not to be a buzz kill....but rumor has it that there is a bucket of these Swedish badges that was "found" about a decade ago.....and they are slowly being pieced out to maintain their collector value. As far as I can tell, all are from the same "bucket" source.

Can anyone else provide any further details?

Fordially,
Brad in Germany now in Maryland

[swedbob]

They made cars in the fourties, 1949 I think, ford vedette and those kind with ford V8.
Maybe the badges are from a different time period. I have seen this badges for many years, and also old people have had them for years. On the thirties, take a look at the storage and spare part facillities.




Inside

[swedbob]

Ford clock, advertisement, probably from 1931



There is also a brochure from 1931 specificly for the Ford inauguration in 1931.
Take alook at this fil strip, how the cars where "packed up"

http://www.filmarkivet.se/sv/Film/?movieid=80


And below a mark from sporrong. I got this from a family member to the previous chief staff. As you can see its marked with a specifik number, absolute genuine. Think I have the reson/occation for it somewhere in my documentation.




This above came from sporrong sweden. Pins came from several locations. I know for sure that "ordinary" Ford pins was ordered from Denmark from Erik Lonquist Norrebrogade 163 Copenhagen. This is mentioned in my origin letters from Ford Motor Company to the car sellers on swedish 26 Aug 1930. Have a hundred of them between 1927 to into the forties. They tell all about the competitions and and the swedish "Ford News", and prices etc, a lot of advertisement material.