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Old 08-27-2017, 12:03 AM   #1
BillCNC
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Default Up Grades?

Hello All,

Well I have been driving my new 31 Tudor and am loving it, ... Although I do admit, the timing advance lever does take a bit of getting used to. I'm now going over the car and I'm making my hit list of things I either need to repair, alter or redo. One good thing, … the list is small so far and with my fingers crossed, it'll stay that way.

I am thinking of a few upgrades and wanted your opinions or experiences. Also since I'm still learning, are there other upgrades I should think about as well? Please keep in mind my main goal is to keep the car as stock looking as possible.

1). Mitchell Overdrive http://mitchelloverdrivemfg.com/prod...l-a-overdrive/
2). Mitchell Synchronized Transmission http://mitchelloverdrivemfg.com/prod...-transmission/
3). Electronic Ignition with the stock look, … Any recommendations?
4). From 6v – 12v, … Any recommendations?


Regards
Bill
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:05 AM   #2
J Franklin
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Default Re: Up Grades?

skip #4, defer #2 & #3. Learn to drive the A successfully before those mods or you will never learn the proper way to drive a Model A. You then may decide you like it stock.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:53 AM   #3
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: Up Grades?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCNC View Post
Hello All,

Well I have been driving my new 31 Tudor and am loving it, ... Although I do admit, the timing advance lever does take a bit of getting used to. I'm now going over the car and I'm making my hit list of things I either need to repair, alter or redo. One good thing, … the list is small so far and with my fingers crossed, it'll stay that way.

I am thinking of a few upgrades and wanted your opinions or experiences. Also since I'm still learning, are there other upgrades I should think about as well? Please keep in mind my main goal is to keep the car as stock looking as possible.

1). Mitchell Overdrive http://mitchelloverdrivemfg.com/prod...l-a-overdrive/
2). Mitchell Synchronized Transmission http://mitchelloverdrivemfg.com/prod...-transmission/
3). Electronic Ignition with the stock look, … Any recommendations?
4). From 6v – 12v, … Any recommendations?


Regards
Bill
1) Unless you intend to get into real heavy long distance touring I would forget the Mitchell overdrive and put 3.54 gears in the rear end as a low priority. Of course check to see that you don't already have them. Tom Endy is the "go to" guy for rear end rebuilding in Southern California. Search on his name.
2) Since I have never had problems driving my A with double clutching I wouldn't personally spend the money on the synchronized transmission.
3) When it comes to the distributer I am get wild. I have a Model B distributer in my truck. Put on a Model B timing cover and then timing the distributer is the same as a stock Model A. The centrifugal advance of the Model B distributer makes it easier for other people to drive my truck and a little more pleasant for me. It looks the same as a Model A except the advance rod is missing and the condenser is in a slightly different location.
4)There is only one good reason to change to 12 volts. You can get some very bright headlights. Otherwise 6 volts is fine. Whatever you do don't go to an alternator. They look like &%@* (at least to me). If the headlights are dim be sure all your grounds and contacts are clean, the wires are the right size and get the reproduction headlight reflectors from Bratton's Ford Parts, (301) 829-9880 (no other company has the high quality ones you need). The parts suppliers also have more powerful (compared to standard) headlight bulbs. If the engine cranks over slowly be sure the battery cables are designed for 6 volts (they are heavier than the 12 volt cables). Start with the reflectors as you will want them if you go 12 volts anyway. Two higher powered headlights bulbs are not that expensive to try. If you end up at 12 volts check out the "brite" bulbs from Ron Francis Wire Works, https://www.ronfrancis.com, (800) 292-1940.

Now for a couple of things I would do:

1) Make sure the brakes are 100% (as I mentioned before contact Randy Gross)
2) Check the date codes on the tires (see archives). I would make sure they are newer than 10 years before you do any high speed driving. Some people recommend less but you might want to research it. If you need to replace the tires consider blackwalls. It is a personal thing but I like them better, they are less expensive and they are easier to keep clean. I like your existing tires and rims (I assume they are 1935, 16 inch wire wheels with 1932 4 cylinder hub caps) but if you want to go back to the original 19 inch rims be sure to do it at the time you replace the tires.
3) Be sure you have two tail lights in the rear (they came with one). One is all that is legally required but a second one might avoid an accident.
4) Add turn signals. California drivers are crazy and nobody knows what hand signals mean anymore. Besides that, hand signals don't work very well at night. Some people use the cowl lights for the front turn signals but era correct fog lights work also.
5) Add a fuse to the electrical system. Be sure to get a quality one, there are some cheap ones out there.
6) If you still have an original 2 blade fan replace it with a reproduction 2 blade aluminum one. The original ones have an unacceptable (at least to me) failure rate (see archives)
&) Make sure the rear axle nuts are tight. I have seen torque specs going from 100 pounds to about 200 pounds. I go with the higher number. If the axles won't take it they need to be replaced. Read the archives.
7) If you need to remove the rear hub/drum assembly be sure to use the correct puller. I use the reproduction KR Wilson puller. Cheap pullers will do a lot of damage.
8) Add a high compression aftermarket cast iron head, but ONLY if you have the head off for some other reason.
9) Consider adding a trunk and moving the spare tire to the rear if you intend to tour with more then 2 people.
10) Buy a copy of the judging standards from MARC/MAFCA and consult it when you buy parts. Frequently the right part cost the same as the wrong part so you might as well have the right part on your car.
10) Check out any major suppliers and builders in the archives before you commit. As with anything today there are a lot of flakes out there.
11) Please respond to my email on that other topic, I need to close it out.

Keep in mind that if you make too many changes you lose all of the "charm" of the Model A and you might as well go out and buy a Honda (which I think is a very good car). Go very slow on your changes. Remember "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I am sure you will get other equally valid suggestions and opinions.

From your pictures on the other thread it looks like you have found a very good car.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 08-27-2017 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Up Grades?

As far as changes, not every change is an upgrade.

I like an electronic voltage regulator for the generator, counterweights on the crankshaft, a higher compression head, and a 3.27 rear end. Right now I'm all stock except for the EVR inside my generator, and my car does fine. Once you are good at double clutching, there is no need for a synchro tranny.
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Up Grades?

While many may say otherwise, the fact is a rebuilt to factory specs A can run 60 MPH all day long. But, it is not easy, quick or cheap to return the A to factory specs.

My first question would be can you drive the car comfortably up over 55 MPH?
Does the engine vibrate a lot?
Do you know if the engine was rebuilt by someone that really knows how to do the bearings and balance all the rotating parts?

The secret to a good running A is to keep as close as possible to Ford tolerances in the moving parts. Avoid most modern improvements as they are not usually much of an improvement. You want a burn out proof condenser, you may want to consider a generator regulator (not critical), and Halogen direct replacement head light bulbs for night driving.

Things like points consider this. My brothers car is still using the same points that came with the car in 1970. This is the car my brother does not think twice about running 60 MPH and never has. His biggest problem is the batteries only last 6 to 10 years and it needs gas added. Well that and as a 15 year old he did not know so much about paint and that is looking pretty bad.

You need to concentrate on knowing the A as it is. That will be the most reliable car you can have and it will run highway speeds. As mentioned you focus should be suspension and brakes as they are often not restored properly. If your car does not have shocks and you can drive it comfortably over 25 MPH then your suspension needs to be gone over cause you springs are dead. Then you will need good shocks. Brakes are not easy or cheap to get right. unless you have access to special tooling you are best paying some of the places like Mel Gross, Bert's, Synders, Bratton's and such to make up drums and matching backing plates ready to install.

A final note. Read the owners manual carefully. It really tells you about the proper care and feeding of the A. Keep in mind you can get the correct 600w oil today, but you have to be careful as some places make up something with STP. Engine oil today is much better. Use something with additives and it is ok to go a couple thousand miles or a couple of years between changes if you are not running dirt roads all the time.
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:10 AM   #6
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Of your list of 'improvements' these are my thoughts. I am going to install a O/D at some point so I can drive the car long distances without the RPM's being high, which inturn saves the engine's life a bit. The synchro tranny is really only good for intown driving. Like where I live the lights like to change on me so I have to slam the brakes on or sail on through a red light. And something tells me the cameras aren't going to let me off do to the age of the car. It just helps go from 3rd to 2nd faster that is all.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:16 PM   #7
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There are a couple of more important things that need to be attended to. Get the title in your name. The DMV will charge a penalty if this is not done fairly quickly. A more important reason is that if there is a problem you want to get back to the seller before he spends your money. If it is a currently registered with a California title you might not need an inspection but be sure that the numbers on the vehicle match the title. A very few California cars are still registered with the engine number. Most are registered with a tag that DMV installed on the door jam (see photo). It might also be a tag from another state. The number on the frame cannot be seen without raising the body or cutting the floor. Be very suspicious of a number anywhere else.

The second thing is insurance. I insure mine with AAA that has my regular insurance. They have a division that deals with low usage antique cars. If you go with some of the companies that specialize in antique car insurance be careful that their restrictions do not conflict with your intended use of the car.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Up Grades?

1). Mitchell Overdrive ...YES for easy highway cruising, longer engine life.
2). Mitchell Synchronized Transmission ...NO learn to double clutch
3). Electronic Ignition with the stock look, … NO not needed
4). From 6v – 12v, … NO not needed
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:05 PM   #9
George Miller
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I say skip all 4. that will save you a lot of problems. But it is your car so do what you feel you want.
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:02 PM   #10
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Smile Re: Up Grades?

The high compression head will give you the most "bang" for the buck. An electronic or the Nu Rex centrifugal advance set up will eliminate the hassle of the advance lever. Depending on your location and the travel you want to do the Mitchell overdrive is an excellent choice. Since I've driven a Model A all my life I don't have a problem with the transmission being stock but you do have to get use to the shifting with out syncros.

You will get a lot of input about keeping it stock or making modifications. Like I said I've driven for over 50 years and make some trips of 6 or 7 thousand miles in the matter of 5 or 6 weeks, so I have experience about what works and doesn't on the Model A. Now besides the ones you listed you might want some creature comforts, my sedan in the picture has all the items you listed and a few you didn't. It has A/C, heated seats and a hidden stereo, oh yeah and cup holder!
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:09 PM   #11
marc hildebrant
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Default Re: Up Grades?

Bill,

I too have a 1931 Tudor that is 99 % Stock. As stated, first learn to be comfortable with your car as is and make sure that you read and use the original Ford Owners book.

Are you owning the car to enjoy the way it is, or are you owning the car to turn it into a modern car ? The Model A can be made to be a very reliable car without modifications to the original design.

Marc
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Up Grades?

I think a lot depends on how you plan on using it.....just short rides around town, not on the freeway? I also live in S. Calif., and get on the local freeways frequently, so I absolutely love the Mitchell OD, and I use it on all our surface streets when I hit 40-45 mph. It really is like a 4th gear, and quiets the car down. I also did a HC head, but my trans is stock, as is most everything else. Probably a good idea to drive it awhile and maybe ride in other A's to compare. Good luck!
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: Up Grades?

Hello Folks,

Thanks for all the input, ... I'm surprised that most of you are saying no to the upgrades. Well, double clutching is nothing new to me as I have had plenty of experience with the military vehicles I drove (Heavy EQ. Opp. in the Sea-Bee's on Korean war and Vietnam era EQ.). Also I have owned my share of beat up cars that had no business running and had to double clutch a few of them so If I never double clutch again in my life, ... I surely wouldn't miss it.

I live in the High Desert and there are hills in some of the areas I go and then there is the Cajon Pass to deal with if I ever go to any car shows of travel out of the desert so I will be putting in a gear splitter overdrive. I also wouldn't mind ditching the timing advance lever. Please note, I WILL be keeping all the original parts so when I sell it, I have both sets of parts. As far as the timing lever on the steering column, I would not remove it, just make it non functional under the hood.

Charlie; As far as your answer, I wont know until tomorrow.

Mike; I want the splittter for the same reason, ... Most of the streets around here are 50mph except the Main St. which is 35mph and there are hilly parts that I do travel. For the most part, EVERYWHERE up here is long distance with not many stop signs or lights. I already have to drive most of the street up here with my foot on the floor so the motor is reeving more than I like.

John Lavoy; It's my understanding tht to have the best running car is to add a high comp head WITH a Mitchell Overdrive.

Marc; The closer to show room condition, the better. I DO NOT want a hot-rod and no more chrome than I already have.

Stock, stock stock, ... They just look so much more classy that way.

One thing is, everyone is saying no to an upgraded ignition, ... Why, is it just because of keeping it stock functioning? I would think switching out to an electronic ignition would be so much easier on the motor than someone having to constantly play with it while driving, especially in large city driving with a bunch of traffic lights, stop sign and traffic.

Regards
Bill

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Old 08-27-2017, 02:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Up Grades?

Stock ignition is very reliable and so easy to diagnose if you have a problem. If you want automatic advance, just install a B distributor. Two of my cars came with B distributors, but I installed the stock A distributor before even starting the engines.
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Up Grades?

As far as the ignition goes if it is stock then you can fix it easily by the side of the road ( swap points/condensor). If you use the 12v system and it breaks call AAA and go home and put the stock one back in. Plus when I drive I retard the spark, start, advance the spark and leave it alone and she does just fine.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 1930artdeco View Post
As far as the ignition goes if it is stock then you can fix it easily by the side of the road ( swap points/condensor). If you use the 12v system and it breaks call AAA and go home and put the stock one back in. Plus when I drive I retard the spark, start, advance the spark and leave it alone and she does just fine.

Mike
Hi Mike,

Don't you have to play with the timing lever while shifting because the engine RPM's changing?

I have seen the plates you stick in the stock A keeping it stock looking. Couldnt I just keep the spock plate in the car and if there is an issue, swap it out. As I said before I will be keepoing all the parts I swap out or remove.

I'm trying to upload a bunch of pictures but I'm getting some security error message so I sent off a PM to the masters that control us.

Regards
Bill
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:12 PM   #17
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I have the Premium AAA membership, so I'm covered for anywhere I travel. Besides, when the battery is dead on 6v or 12v, ... Don't you just push or crank? That was my plan and if that didn't work, then AAA.

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Bill
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:18 PM   #18
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For the ignition, I was thinking of something like the Zipper http://www.fsignitions.com or making one out of my distributor as it should be non invasive.

Regards
Bill
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:28 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BillCNC View Post
Hi Mike,

Don't you have to play with the timing lever while shifting because the engine RPM's changing?

I have seen the plates you stick in the stock A keeping it stock looking. Couldnt I just keep the spock plate in the car and if there is an issue, swap it out. As I said before I will be keepoing all the parts I swap out or remove.

I'm trying to upload a bunch of pictures but I'm getting some security error message so I sent off a PM to the masters that control us.

Regards
Bill
Read about spark control on page 10 of the link.http://www.motormayhem.net/wp-upload...ion-Manual.pdf

Bob
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:30 PM   #20
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: Up Grades?

Really you want a nice reliable stock ignition.

Electronic ignitions arevoltage sensitive where you can crank or push start on a marginal battery you are stuck with electronic. It does not buy you enough advantage over stock unless you are going radical high compression.

You really need to establish what was done to your engine before contemplating changes. So many arebuilt out of balance.

You should also keep in mind the A was built to very tight specs. When working with parts of it you well need a good quality micrometer if you want to do it right. Also bear in mind many threads are done to a tighter tolerance and you must not use standard tap and dies on them.
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