Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2016, 07:25 AM   #1
bobbycoke
Senior Member
 
bobbycoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: pawlet vt/ port jefferson sta. ny
Posts: 183
Default Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

I have the fuse on the starter and have just started blowing the fuse ???? I checked all connections [for tightness] and now wonder where or how to isolate the short.........I do not want to use the copper buss and watch for the smoke!! I am running a FS ingnition [in distributer] and a 6 volt pos ground alternator..... how can I test ampmeter , coil etc ............thanks for all your help ... bobbycoke
bobbycoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:40 AM   #2
1930-fordor
Member
 
1930-fordor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: nc
Posts: 97
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

May not be the same but, one time when I was setting the timing I left the key in the on position overnight. That cooked the coil without me noticing. Next day my fuze kept blowing. I could not find the problem, so I did the unthinkable(tinfoil fuze) smoke came from distributor. Thankfully it only cooked the points.
1930-fordor is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-17-2016, 07:50 AM   #3
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 9,389
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Try disconnecting the headlight circuit and try fuse again.
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:53 AM   #4
chl
Member
 
chl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Nicholson, Pa.
Posts: 84
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

check to see that no connections came loose in your light switch.
chl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 11:02 AM   #5
ItsA31
Member
 
ItsA31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 77
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Not to sound too simplistic but, what size fuse are you using?
__________________
G. Alexander (Alex) Chompff
Fervently Maintaining a 'State of Arrested Decay'
ItsA31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 11:56 AM   #6
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Use the wiring diagram as your guide, but as Paul mentioned disconnect the lighting circuit as well as all the wires from your alternator... If the short is still present head upwards towards the junction box....
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg image.jpeg (105.5 KB, 29 views)
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 06:55 PM   #7
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Is this a new fuse install?
If so be sure you have the fuse block wired so the starter current does NOT flow through the fuse. This miss wiring has happened a couple times.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:53 PM   #8
bobbycoke
Senior Member
 
bobbycoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: pawlet vt/ port jefferson sta. ny
Posts: 183
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Tom,It is not a new fuse block, had ran the old fuse for years........itsa31 -20 amp fuse...tomorrow I will disconnect the alternator,lighting circuit this will help me locate it I hope ,it is just when I have a mechanical problem no sweat, but those electron and protons make my head hurt, and my eyes glaze over I do not know why as I understand electrical theory and such but I guess I lack the confidence in it.......I have a new coil so I will swap that out if it indicates it is in the primary ignition circuit .....I need to buy more fuses any one know a wholesaler !!!!!!.......bobbycoke
bobbycoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:27 PM   #9
eagle
Senior Member
 
eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eagle Bend, MN
Posts: 2,025
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Put an in-line ammeter on it and start isolating circuits. DON"T just start throwing parts at it, you'll soon have multiple problems. Use the diagram given above and remove the different branches and check current draw on each one. Its not hard, just takes some logical thought and a little time.
__________________
"There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."
eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:30 PM   #10
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Or just use a resettable circuit breaker along with a testlight so your not blowing up a bunch of fuses.

Most volt meters have an OHMS scale which can prove out a circuit for resistance /short
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:49 PM   #11
ItsA31
Member
 
ItsA31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 77
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbycoke View Post
Tom,It is not a new fuse block, had ran the old fuse for years........itsa31 -20 amp fuse...tomorrow I will disconnect the alternator,lighting circuit this will help me locate it I hope ,it is just when I have a mechanical problem no sweat, but those electron and protons make my head hurt, and my eyes glaze over I do not know why as I understand electrical theory and such but I guess I lack the confidence in it.......I have a new coil so I will swap that out if it indicates it is in the primary ignition circuit .....I need to buy more fuses any one know a wholesaler !!!!!!.......bobbycoke
Darn, I see you have an alternator. There goes my idea of cutout points being stuck closed. At least if your alternator ever goes bad, the diodes will typically blow to the 'open' failure mode, rater than short out. BTW, I'm running a 20 A fuse too and that's been working fine for me as well (no accessories).
__________________
G. Alexander (Alex) Chompff
Fervently Maintaining a 'State of Arrested Decay'
ItsA31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 09:28 PM   #12
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Before removing the coil, there is a very easy way to test the amps it draws. Just stop the engine with the points open (or slip paper between the contacts) then turn the key on and connect an ammeter between the points contacts. It should draw about 4 amps.

Actually it gets even easier than that. Just leave the key off and connect your ammeter between the red coil wire terminal and a ground. This will complete the coil circuit and show the amp draw.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 08:56 AM   #13
jg61hawk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 395
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

The brake light switch has been known to short out internally. A quick place to check, just remove the wire.
jg61hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:22 AM   #14
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

#2 has a novel way to trouble shoot....create a dead short and wait for something to smoke or catch fire.
Many of us are running a 30 amp fuse. Cannot tell from your response just what fuse size you have... "31 -20 amp fuse"

with a test light or a VOM you can find your problem pretty quickly. As was mentioned, the headlight circuit is known for problems
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:37 AM   #15
TinCup
Senior Member
 
TinCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok.
Posts: 1,977
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

By finding out what it isn't you find out what it is. As others have stated start with headlights then move to horn then move to brake light switch and so on. I haven't heard if anything has changed on the car. Good Luck!
TinCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:57 AM   #16
jrelliott
Senior Member
 
jrelliott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pine, AZ
Posts: 792
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Make yourself a test light which is a small bulb for the voltage you have in the vehicle, Attach alligator clips with wires to the bulb then connect this across the fuse holder. Start removing wires for the alternator, headlights, horn, brake, etc. When the light goes out, you have found the short.
jrelliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 10:23 AM   #17
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

that may be the easiest testing in the world!

use the short to light the bulb
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 02:59 PM   #18
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
#2 has a novel way to trouble shoot....create a dead short and wait for something to smoke or catch fire.
Many of us are running a 30 amp fuse. Cannot tell from your response just what fuse size you have... "31 -20 amp fuse"

with a test light or a VOM you can find your problem pretty quickly. As was mentioned, the headlight circuit is known for problems
The year I taught Auto Mechanics at the Vo Tec there was another instructor who told the students to do exactly that.
I told the students to use a bulb or resistor and flasher in series connected to the fuse terminals. Then Move an inductive ammeter (or even an ordinary compass) along the suspect wiring harness and watch the needle move each time the flasher passes current. When the needle stops moving then they have just passed the short.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:36 PM   #19
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Tom, you are just such a wild guy, using logic and all like that stuff
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:56 PM   #20
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
The year I taught Auto Mechanics at the Vo Tec there was another instructor who told the students to do exactly that.
I told the students to use a bulb or resistor and flasher in series connected to the fuse terminals. Then Move an inductive ammeter (or even an ordinary compass) along the suspect wiring harness and watch the needle move each time the flasher passes current. When the needle stops moving then they have just passed the short.
Thats basically what I use. a circuit breaker and a inductive meter..the meter points towards the short and when u pass it the meter points in the opposite direction.
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 03:57 AM   #21
C26Pinelake
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto.
Posts: 5,800
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
#2 has a novel way to trouble shoot....create a dead short and wait for something to smoke or catch fire.
Many of us are running a 30 amp fuse. Cannot tell from your response just what fuse size you have... "31 -20 amp fuse"

with a test light or a VOM you can find your problem pretty quickly. As was mentioned, the headlight circuit is known for problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
The year I taught Auto Mechanics at the Vo Tec there was another instructor who told the students to do exactly that.
I told the students to use a bulb or resistor and flasher in series connected to the fuse terminals. Then Move an inductive ammeter (or even an ordinary compass) along the suspect wiring harness and watch the needle move each time the flasher passes current. When the needle stops moving then they have just passed the short.
It doesn't get easier. Thanks Tom.,. Wayne
C26Pinelake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 10:00 AM   #22
old31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,088
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Mitch do you have a photo of the circuit breaker and a inductive meter that you are using?
old31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-19-2016, 11:43 AM   #23
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Originally Posted by old31 View Post
Mitch do you have a photo of the circuit breaker and a inductive meter that you are using?
The first pic is my fancy snap on circuit breakers with the inductive meter ...the needle on the meter points towards the short... If you pass by the short it will point the other way.. This has to be against the harness / circuit that your checking


Second pic is my fancy power probe short finder... This powers the circuit then you use the receiver to run along the harness till you find the short.. The beauty of this is you don't have to remove things to locate as the receiver can hear through rugs, moldings etc.....




Last edited by Mitch//pa; 09-19-2016 at 12:18 PM.
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 12:06 PM   #24
31 Model A
Senior Member
 
31 Model A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Here I am in front of Todd's Grocery in 1931 selling Grit newspapers
Posts: 2,548
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

I've been following this thread waiting for someone else with a female Model A like Elizabeth and Sarah............

Just give her a slap or two...............

Cheers,

Male chauvinist pig!!!!!
__________________
"Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with Age and Experience"

"Hey Lady, ya wanna buy a Grit?"

"If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old" Will Rogers
31 Model A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 12:51 PM   #25
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Mitch you are having waaay too much fun with real tools while the rest of us limp along with stuff whittled from old wood fenceposts
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 07:55 PM   #26
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Ha Dave I just did a toe in set with a fence post hehe
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 08:44 PM   #27
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,011
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Cannot tell from your response just what fuse size you have... "31 -20 amp fuse"
I read it as a '31 Model A w/a 20 amp fuse.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 11:03 PM   #28
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

20 prolly won't work
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2016, 07:41 AM   #29
pgerhardt
Senior Member
 
pgerhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Danbury Ct
Posts: 1,254
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

If anyone want one, I can sell you a box of 30 amp fuses for $5. PM me if interested,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 8.40.18 AM.jpg (77.0 KB, 12 views)
pgerhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2016, 04:53 PM   #30
Rancho Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Rancho Deluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 145
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Here’s my short circuit story. Just a few days ago my 1930 fordor stopped dead on the highway. It has 2K miles on a complete restoration and has been owned by me since 1956. Lots of trips with “adventures” but never before has this car left me totally disabled on the road. It happened after passing thru a brief but intense rain squall. After numerous roadside checks I could not find the short so with darkness near I used my auto club towing service for the first time ever. No fun, but the operator acted like he towed 80+ year old cars every day.
I needed two days to sleuth out the problem with a multimeter, wiring diagrams, and expert interstate advice. Just about everything got checked. The flaw turned out to be in what you’d least expect – the one part intended to protect all the rest from short circuits. My fuse holder is a recent item from a parts house (can’t remember which one). It has a badly flawed design and differs from others I have seen. The car wiring end, not the battery connection end, has a bolt fastened thru the sheet metal bracket and the actual fuse holder. See the photo. Three small plastic washers insulate the bolt and first nut from the sheet metal. Less than 1/32 inch clearance is there between the bolt head and the nut sides and the bracket. Somehow moisture, a small amount of corrosion, dirty engine compartment dust or crud, or something shorted this fastener to the bracket and thus the car. When wiring was disassembled for checks the short was not observed. Upon reassembly the fuse would blow. This bolt and insulator design is just a temptation to Murphy’s law.
All of us using a fuse device should check for this flaw. It’s easy to fix. Just cut off part of the bracket with the bolt mounting hole and fasten the bolt and car wiring only to the actual fuse holder, itself.
Good Luck, Rancho
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20160920_164202 (1024x695).jpg (52.8 KB, 27 views)
Rancho Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2016, 05:04 PM   #31
ItsA31
Member
 
ItsA31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 77
Default Re: Miss Elizabeth popping her fuse !

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
20 prolly won't work
My '31 is running 20A, and so is Miss Elizabeth. No Problem.
__________________
G. Alexander (Alex) Chompff
Fervently Maintaining a 'State of Arrested Decay'
ItsA31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:30 PM.