brake adjustment

[wbs]

hello-ques from a beginer- i saw the following on bently's model a website-"I like to use a bungee cord to pull the brake pedal back until it just clears the floorboard, then adjust the clevis on the connecting rod to assure the stop is against the cross member.-"-------
can anyone explain pulling the pedal back til it clears the floor? i thought it would not go that high


also another web site says there is a pdf brake download from texstparts.com -which i could not find but i would not see why an 'A' brake diagram would be on 'T' site.

can i just raise the front and rear separately when making adjusments instead of simultaneously?

finally, is the srervice for low speed braking vs. emmergency for hi speed with full pedal depression? what is relation of hand brake to emmergency braking? sorry to be so basic -bought my car but i have yet to get it running.

finally , if anyone knows of good pix , pls point me to them


thank you

[Brentwood Bob]

This bungee application is probably for pulling the brake pedal inward toward the driver so that one person can adjust the brake rod correctly by himself.
A length of cotten rope, or twine, tied to the bottom of the steering wheel would also do this.
Bob

[700rpm]

The hand brake should not be used for emergency braking (though it often is). It should be used as a parking brake only. I also use mine when stopped at a light going uphill, to hold the car as I begin forward when the light changes. Dad told me this was easier on the clutch when I was learning to drive my Model A ...55 years ago!

[Charles Coe]

wbs, Yes you can raise the front and rear separately when making adjustments.

[Bob C]

The Service Bulletins have good instructions for adjusting the brakes.
http://www.brattons.com/prodtype.asp...ageHistory=cat

Bob

[Jim/GA]

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Lots of questions here. I will try to break them down.

hello-ques from a beginer- i saw the following on bently's model a website-"I like to use a bungee cord to pull the brake pedal back until it just clears the floorboard, then adjust the clevis on the connecting rod to assure the stop is against the cross member.-"-------
can anyone explain pulling the pedal back til it clears the floor? i thought it would not go that high

If you don't have it already, you should buy a copy of Les Andrews' "Model A Ford Mechanic's Handbook - Vol. 1" to get a good explanation of all the procedures for adjusting and rebuilding the various systems on your car.

also another web site says there is a pdf brake download from texstparts.com -which i could not find but i would not see why an 'A' brake diagram would be on 'T' site.

Lots of Model A guys are also Model T guys.

Get Les Andrews' book. It is designed to be taken out to the car with you as you work on it.

can i just raise the front and rear separately when making adjusments instead of simultaneously?

It can be done, but you will get a better adjustment setup if you raise all 4 wheels at the same time. I guess that means you have to buy or borrow a second pair of jack stands.

To get the desired front/back braking force split, it helps to be able to feel the relative resistance at each wheel when the brake pedal is depressed in increments.

finally, is the srervice for low speed braking vs. emmergency for hi speed with full pedal depression? what is relation of hand brake to emmergency braking? sorry to be so basic -bought my car but i have yet to get it running.

No it is not. It sounds like you might have read someone's Model T pages.

On a Model A, the foot pedal brake is for all braking. When the brakes are right (rebuilt properly, good linings, good drums, adjusted properly) you can skid all 4 wheels on dry pavement. You can't stop any faster than that. Actually, you can... if you release the brakes a bit and try to get the wheels to not skid. that's your best braking point, compared to skidding.

As mentioned by 700rpm, consider the hand brake as just for parking and as a hil holder when starting out on an incline, so you don't roll back as the clutch is engaging. (A good exercise to practice, once you have starting out on a level surface mastered.)

To help you in the "get it running" and to learn more about your car, buy Les' book and see about joining a local Model A club. If you add your location to your profile, we can help you find knowledgeable people near you.

finally , if anyone knows of good pix , pls point me to them

thank you

Les' book is a good place to start.

Also look at the sticky at the top of the list of threads of the Model A page. Lots of good material there.

Both national Model A clubs have technical experts that enjoy helping new owners get familiar with their cars. So join one or both of the clubs and take advantage of that also.

[Brentwood Bob]

Actually, the les andrews manual is a little vague on the first question related to adjustment of the short brake rod from the pedal to the main brake cross shaft.
I think les assumed that this would be straight forward and the goal of eliminating any play in the system from loose linkages which starts at the pedal and ends at the brake shoes.
Difinitely seek a local club and its resources. You may be an expert in you occupation, but the model A is not a Honda, or a model T. There is no substitute for experience. You want the best brakes you can depend on with your life and those you haul with you on any trip.
Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here is the way to adjust the brakes and rods in brief.
Start with the 4 pins removed from each brake rod clevice.
Put the front and rear alxes on jack stands.
Adjust each wheel until it locks, then back off a few clicks to a slight drag.
Lightly pull each brake lever towards the center of the car to remove freeplay.
Lightly pull each brake rod away from the center of the car to remove freeplay.
Adjust each clevice rod so the pin just slips into the clevice, then tighten the lock nut.
Lube each moving part.

[Purdy Swoft]

There is a lot of confusing info about brakes in the mechanics hand book, service bulletins and other places. This is why many have problems with setting up and adjusting brakes and mostly end up with less than optimum brakes. It takes a lot of typing to explain the procedure and most really don't want to take the time. I have explained how to set up and adjust the brakes here many times. I don't adjust the rear brakes with the wheels in the air. If you adjust the rear brakes with the wheels in the air, they will drag when the wheels are on the floor-road and they will have to be readjusted . Do A search on this site for brakes and adjustments . Pay no attention to anyone that says that the brake rods must be adjusted to a certain length or you will end up with very poor brakes. All of the slack must be adjusted out of the brake rods at the clevis.

[tbirdtbird]

Tom and Purdy have it sewed up the best so far. Purdy has posted very detailed instructions many times. Start here:

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search...archid=4785904

Agree it would help to put your location in your profile and join your local club. A Model A ain't no Ford 302.
Also, the brakes on a Model T bear no resemblance to a Model A in any way.
And using the hand brake as a parking brake only is good advice....if you throw the hand brake on while driving you will severely distort and ruin the hand brake backing plate inside the drum...it will contort all to h*ll.

I see a lot of conversions to juice brakes but I gotta say if your mechanical brakes are set up correctly they will stop very well, indeed

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

The hand brake should not be used for emergency braking (though it often is)....

.
A pedant speaks..... " Of course you should use it in emergencies (assuming you're not using the term emergency so loosely as to include non-emergency situations).....It's an emergency brake - it is for use in emergencies . It is also used as a parking brake" I'd rather use the emergency brake than crash the car over the cliff

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

.
A pedant speaks..... " Of course you should use it in emergencies (assuming you're not using the term emergency so loosely as to include non-emergency situations).....It's an emergency brake - it is for use in emergencies . It is also used as a parking brake" I'd rather use the emergency brake than crash the car over the cliff

john then you take the risk of damaging the E-brake carrier

[AlfinVA]

tbirdbird, please check your link. I've tried it and get a "can't find it message". I'd like to read Purdy's explanation. Thanks.

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

[/COLOR]

john then you take the risk of damaging the E-brake carrier

Ah yes, hadn't appreciated that! -( had my eye on a total-write-off insurance claim!)

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

There is a lot of confusing info about brakes in the mechanics hand book, service bulletins and other places. This is why many have problems with setting up and adjusting brakes and mostly end up with less than optimum brakes. It takes a lot of typing to explain the procedure and most really don't want to take the time. I have explained how to set up and adjust the brakes here many times. I don't adjust the rear brakes with the wheels in the air. If you adjust the rear brakes with the wheels in the air, they will drag when the wheels are on the floor-road and they will have to be readjusted . Do A search on this site for brakes and adjustments . Pay no attention to anyone that says that the brake rods must be adjusted to a certain length or you will end up with very poor brakes. All of the slack must be adjusted out of the brake rods at the clevis.

Follow the advice of Purdy and Tom and you can't go wrong !
Wayne

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

.
A pedant speaks..... " Of course you should use it in emergencies (assuming you're not using the term emergency so loosely as to include non-emergency situations).....It's an emergency brake - it is for use in emergencies . It is also used as a parking brake" I'd rather use the emergency brake than crash the car over the cliff

I agree , if the service brakes failed, to avoid wrecking the car or running over someone , I wouldn't hesitate to use the emergency brake even if it did damage the brake . The emergency brake will stop the car but when the emergency brake band catches up the slack it can and will ruin the emergency brake backing plate and band . The band expands and stops the drum but there is some slack before the band hits the stop on the backing plate.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by AlfinVA

tbirdbird, please check your link. I've tried it and get a "can't find it message". I'd like to read Purdy's explanation. Thanks.

It was working great last night . I was very impressed at how Tbird had copied several years worth of my brake posts and posted them in thread form .

[tbirdtbird]

Hmm it was working

try this

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search...archid=4788258

works now. all i did was do a search and then post that link. i wonder if the link expires somehow when i do it this way

if the link stops working just go into advanced search, enter 'brake adjustment' under keyword (use no quotes) and 'Purdy Swoft' under username (no quotes) and it will come right up. The search function on this site is very powerful

Edit: OK, I just checked again. For whatever reason the site software will not hold the search link. I'll re-post a different way

since there is sentiment that the parking brake works so well why not install them on the front wheels, too??

[Brentwood Bob]

WBS-
Give us feedback on your progress, and where you live.
Bob

[tbirdtbird]

Try this instead:

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ake+adjustment

[Tom Wesenberg]

I think of the emergency brake as a PARKING brake, and it's good to have while the car is moving, but only in an emergency to avoid an accident.

It's like the SAWSTOP. It's a one shot deal but does it's job beautifully. The blade comes to a stop in a few micro seconds. It's also much cheaper than a doctor visit and much better than missing fingers. It's between $100 and $150 for a new cartridge and carbide blade.

[wbs]

thanks to all-in response to brentwood bob -i live in piedmont,nc and have 28 phaeton- my progrss has has been very slow-there was broken rod that i had to remove but the clevis pin was impossibly rusted stuck-i tried everything for many hours to unstick the pin- finally , i removed the rear fender to get better access which was still bad and used a angle grinder wtith a cutting blade to cut thev eyelet and pin being careful not to injure the lever-finally, i removed the broken rod-- by then it was night and the next time i get some time i'll replace the broken rods and start the adjustment process--thanks to the generous help
by the way is it ok to say that the service brakes are the 100% foot pedal brakes and the emmergency brakes are the 100% hand brake and are on rear wheels only and not at all on the drive shaft?

[wbs]

thanks to all-in response to brentwood bob -i live in piedmont,nc and have 1928 phaeton- my progrss has has been very slow-there was broken rod that i had to remove but the clevis pin was impossibly rusted stuck-i tried everything for many hours to unstick the pin- finally , i removed the rear fender to get better access which was still bad and used a angle grinder wtith a cutting blade to cut thev eyelet and pin being careful not to injure the lever-finally, i removed the broken rod-- by then it was night and the next time i get some time i'll replace the broken rods and start the adjustment process--thanks to the generous help of all---
by the way is it ok to say that the service brakes are the 100% foot pedal brakes and the emmergency brakes are the 100% hand brake and are on rear wheels only and not at all on the drive shaft?

[Charles Coe]

Originally Posted by wbs

by the way is it ok to say that the service brakes are the 100% foot pedal brakes and the emmergency brakes are the 100% hand brake and are on rear wheels only and not at all on the drive shaft?

Yes

[Brentwood Bob]

Glad to hear you handled a problem like the rusted eyelet. will pm you.
Bob