The Ford Barn

beechboy · 12-01-2014, 07:36 PM

Hello, I am going to get rid of my 4 blade fan and going to a new 2 blade. Will or should i remove the fan shroud now in place and just run the 2 blade? Not having over heating problems, the shroud was on the car when I got it. Getting scared of the 4 blade after reading on the Barn about them

Next question, I am going to rebuild my water pump, do you need a press to install the rear bushing. The manual says press the bushing in and line up the jerk area, but the manual didn't say you need the press that bushing out?
Thanks

1930artdeco · 12-01-2014, 08:01 PM

The shroud came stock on your car originally. But I have seen many cars without it and they work fine. The bushing is a press in by hand job. You won't need a press for it.

Mike

JohnLaVoy · 12-01-2014, 08:12 PM

Since you have the shroud I would leave it in place. We run shrouds on all the cars we use for the longer tours.

Fred · 12-01-2014, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beechboy

Hello, I am going to get rid of my 4 blade fan and going to a new 2 blade. Will or should i remove the fan shroud now in place and just run the 2 blade? Not having over heating problems, the shroud was on the car when I got it. Getting scared of the 4 blade after reading on the Barn about them

Next question, I am going to rebuild my water pump, do you need a press to install the rear bushing. The manual says press the bushing in and line up the jerk area, but the manual didn't say you need the press that bushing out?
Thanks

Before you do anything, I suggest you get the Les Andrews book and read it.. If you can push out & push in a water pump rear bushing by hand, I don't want it for my car.. And you might look for a new line of work !!..

LopezCarguy · 12-01-2014, 08:42 PM

as for four bladed fan, one time we were on tour, my friends cars fan was making noise..we stopped and looked, it was loose at rivets..but not bad, one old guy said don't go another foot..we went anyway.. about a mile down road the fan let go... ruined a good radiator and put us out of service.. I like new aluminum fans.. seem much more solid... as for shroud, I would run one if I had it..

Purdy Swoft · 12-01-2014, 11:02 PM

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Replacing the four blade fan is a good thing to do. I've had two of them to sling a blade and the last one damaged the radiator and a new hood that I had just installed . The four blade fan wasn't the original fan that came on the model A when it was new .

If you've got a 1928 model A that came with a fan shroud, I would probably keep it just because it is original and kinda rare. A fan shroud is really unnecessary and would only help at very low speed as in parades or creeping over trails . Otherwise, a Shroud would just be in the way and probably would restrict air flow at speed.. Ford discontinued the shroud after the first year.

I rebuild my own water pumps and have never needed a press. The rear bushing won't slip in and out by hand but can be gently driven in to place . The hole in the bushing that leads to the grease fitting does need to be properly lined up . I also use the modern front bearing and drive it on with a socket . Its not really all that high tech but mostly a common sense operation .

Purdy Swoft · 12-02-2014, 11:30 AM

My simple explaination. If the pump is original the shaft and impeller should slip right out of the housing by hand. The front roller bearing will slip right out by hand also . A long enough metal rod or an extension like used with sockets can be be used as a driver and hit with a hammer to drive out the rear bushing. I use the old water pump shaft and impeller inserted through the rear of the new bushing and a hammer to carefully drive the new bushing in to place . attention needs to be payed to the alignment of the hole in the rear bushing with the hole in the rear of the housing that must align with the rear grease fitting. Its really just a common sense procedure that the common man can do with common tools .

beechboy · 12-02-2014, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

Before you do anything, I suggest you get the Les Andrews book and read it.. If you can push out & push in a water pump rear bushing by hand, I don't want it for my car.. And you might look for a new line of work !!..

I have the Andrews book and it says press the bushing in. I bought the book the day after I bought my car. Not sure what you meant about finding another line of work.

And thanks to all the other replies.
Chris

Fred · 12-02-2014, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beechboy

I have the Andrews book and it says press the bushing in. I bought the book the day after I bought my car. Not sure what you meant about finding another line of work.

And thanks to all the other replies.
Chris

Meaning, if you are that strong to push it out & in by hand !!..

Purdy Swoft · 12-02-2014, 09:59 PM

I use my vise to support the housing when I drive the old bushing out and in. As for the shaft and impeller , I have purchased the pinned shaft with impeller already installed from Brattons . I have done this since the shaft with impeller already installed became available in the 90s. Its not worth the time and trouble to me tring to save and reuse the old impeller.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-02-2014, 10:31 PM

Ditto what Purdy said. About 6 years ago I was using my 20 ton press to push the impeller onto the shaft, when all of a sudden it exploded and pieces flew in all directions. I was luck that none hit me in the face. Well worth it to by the shaft and impeller installed and pinned.

rocket1 · 12-03-2014, 08:22 PM

It is definitely worth the xtra money to buy the pump shaft with the impeller pinned to it,by the time I lined the parts up in the drill press after getting the impeller in the correct position and running to the hardware store for the roll pin I could have been done with the whole job and out for a cruise.

Purdy Swoft · 12-03-2014, 09:58 PM

And if the distance from the impeller to where the pulley seats is wrong it will cause problems with pulley alignment. I was really glad when water pump shafts with pinned impellers were offered and I haven't looked back .

Joe K · 12-04-2014, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Ditto what Purdy said. About 6 years ago I was using my 20 ton press to push the impeller onto the shaft, when all of a sudden it exploded and pieces flew in all directions. I was luck that none hit me in the face. Well worth it to by the shaft and impeller installed and pinned.

I usually buy the parts separate and pin them after.

I also use the 1/4" "long" shaft and trim it back to get the proper free play. Saves having the donut at the front of the pump - which works - but not my personal fave for solving this issue.

I also check the impeller bore and pump shaft to see the less than 0.001 interference that a press fit here requires. Shafts vary considerably. (See Vince Falter's Fordgarage entry on quality issues with water pump shafts. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/originalwpshaft.htm)

Joe K

Purdy Swoft · 12-04-2014, 11:23 AM

I also cut the corners off the impeller to curb over pumping and loss of coolant out the overflow. Snyders has recommended this for many years and now offers a cut down impeller but the shaft isn't installed .

12-01-2014, 07:36 PM	#1
beechboy Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: springfield oh Posts: 57	Water pump Hello, I am going to get rid of my 4 blade fan and going to a new 2 blade. Will or should i remove the fan shroud now in place and just run the 2 blade? Not having over heating problems, the shroud was on the car when I got it. Getting scared of the 4 blade after reading on the Barn about them Next question, I am going to rebuild my water pump, do you need a press to install the rear bushing. The manual says press the bushing in and line up the jerk area, but the manual didn't say you need the press that bushing out? Thanks

12-01-2014, 08:01 PM	#2
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,552	Re: Water pump The shroud came stock on your car originally. But I have seen many cars without it and they work fine. The bushing is a press in by hand job. You won't need a press for it. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

12-01-2014, 08:12 PM	#3
JohnLaVoy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 779	Re: Water pump Since you have the shroud I would leave it in place. We run shrouds on all the cars we use for the longer tours.

12-01-2014, 08:42 PM	#5
LopezCarguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Lopez Island, Wa. Posts: 276	Re: Water pump as for four bladed fan, one time we were on tour, my friends cars fan was making noise..we stopped and looked, it was loose at rivets..but not bad, one old guy said don't go another foot..we went anyway.. about a mile down road the fan let go... ruined a good radiator and put us out of service.. I like new aluminum fans.. seem much more solid... as for shroud, I would run one if I had it.. __________________ The only thing worth learning is what you learn after you know it all !!

12-01-2014, 11:02 PM	#6
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Water pump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Replacing the four blade fan is a good thing to do. I've had two of them to sling a blade and the last one damaged the radiator and a new hood that I had just installed . The four blade fan wasn't the original fan that came on the model A when it was new . If you've got a 1928 model A that came with a fan shroud, I would probably keep it just because it is original and kinda rare. A fan shroud is really unnecessary and would only help at very low speed as in parades or creeping over trails . Otherwise, a Shroud would just be in the way and probably would restrict air flow at speed.. Ford discontinued the shroud after the first year. I rebuild my own water pumps and have never needed a press. The rear bushing won't slip in and out by hand but can be gently driven in to place . The hole in the bushing that leads to the grease fitting does need to be properly lined up . I also use the modern front bearing and drive it on with a socket . Its not really all that high tech but mostly a common sense operation .

12-02-2014, 11:30 AM	#7
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Water pump My simple explaination. If the pump is original the shaft and impeller should slip right out of the housing by hand. The front roller bearing will slip right out by hand also . A long enough metal rod or an extension like used with sockets can be be used as a driver and hit with a hammer to drive out the rear bushing. I use the old water pump shaft and impeller inserted through the rear of the new bushing and a hammer to carefully drive the new bushing in to place . attention needs to be payed to the alignment of the hole in the rear bushing with the hole in the rear of the housing that must align with the rear grease fitting. Its really just a common sense procedure that the common man can do with common tools .

12-02-2014, 09:59 PM	#10
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Water pump I use my vise to support the housing when I drive the old bushing out and in. As for the shaft and impeller , I have purchased the pinned shaft with impeller already installed from Brattons . I have done this since the shaft with impeller already installed became available in the 90s. Its not worth the time and trouble to me tring to save and reuse the old impeller.

12-02-2014, 10:31 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Water pump Ditto what Purdy said. About 6 years ago I was using my 20 ton press to push the impeller onto the shaft, when all of a sudden it exploded and pieces flew in all directions. I was luck that none hit me in the face. Well worth it to by the shaft and impeller installed and pinned.

12-03-2014, 08:22 PM	#12
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Water pump It is definitely worth the xtra money to buy the pump shaft with the impeller pinned to it,by the time I lined the parts up in the drill press after getting the impeller in the correct position and running to the hardware store for the roll pin I could have been done with the whole job and out for a cruise.

12-03-2014, 09:58 PM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Water pump And if the distance from the impeller to where the pulley seats is wrong it will cause problems with pulley alignment. I was really glad when water pump shafts with pinned impellers were offered and I haven't looked back .

12-04-2014, 11:23 AM	#15
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Water pump I also cut the corners off the impeller to curb over pumping and loss of coolant out the overflow. Snyders has recommended this for many years and now offers a cut down impeller but the shaft isn't installed .