The Ford Barn

Banky · 12-01-2012, 12:00 PM

Hi all,

My 1930 stock tudor runs pretty good! However, my top speed going up a hill is about 25. Is this pretty much the norm, or do I have an issue?

Lots of newbie questions from me, this is my first A. And I like the drive train stock, no other sound like it!

thanks,
Banky

Jim Brierley · 12-01-2012, 12:18 PM

How steep is the hill?

charlesea · 12-01-2012, 12:22 PM

Welcome to FB. A lot of help is available here.
It all depends on the hill. I found that if I am facing a pretty good hill that I build up more speed on the level but I still loose about 10 to 15 MPH on my stock 31 Tudor.
Another help is that if you are fully retarded you might try pushing up 3 to 4 notches & that might give you a little more power.

jjcom · 12-01-2012, 12:27 PM

Depends on how steep the hill is. There's some hills near where I live that I have no trouble doing about 40-45, but I can think of one hill near by that's very steep that about 25 would be tops. If it's just a mild incline, then I'd say something needs to be tweaked to help free up some power. This was before and after installing the 5.5 head mine has, though hill climbing is easier now.

Does it have trouble getting up to say 50 or so on a flat road? It won't get you there in any huge hurry, though it should still feel like a smooth acceleration up to that speed.

Good luck!

[email protected] · 12-01-2012, 12:46 PM

In addition to retarding the spark level some, try opening up the GAV knob some when going up hill. It will richen up the carb fuel mixture to give you a little more power.

Fred K-OR · 12-01-2012, 12:52 PM

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Banky, is this is 3rd gear? I know when I go up a rather steep hill and can't make it in 3rd gear without lugging, I have to shift down to 2nd and 25 MPH is about the top I can or want to go in 2nd.

CarlG · 12-01-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlesea

...Another help is that if you are fully retarded you might try pushing up 3 to 4 notches & that might give you a little more power.

If you are "fully retarded", there aren't any more notches to push up.

TerryH · 12-01-2012, 02:41 PM

If it is timed correctly, than it should never be "fully retarded" running at any kind of speed...it would have very little power and would also get quite hot I would think.....I would be sure it is correctly timed first.

Banky · 12-01-2012, 03:13 PM

HI all:
I guess I'm referring to pretty steep hills. In second, 3rd seems to loose power.
So on hills try moving the spark lever up a few, more retard correct? (Not full retard)

GAV? Assuming this is the Gas Air Choke knob correct? I have mine about 1/4 turn open all the time. Try opening it more on hills?

THANKS ALL!!!! This is great advise. Even taking her time, I love driving my A!!!

Banky

Patrick L. · 12-01-2012, 03:30 PM

????????? Who knows ?? I can find you a couple hills where you could walk faster..[ insert smiley face here]

Banky · 12-01-2012, 04:50 PM

I took it out again. Just seems really slow up hills. I adjusted the timing lever, didn't seem to do much. I also turned the air/fuel mixture about 3/4 turn. Nothing really noticeable. Gonna hook up with a long time A driver here locally to see if I'm expecting to much? I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right, and that my motor if operating properly.

thanks

Special Coupe Frank · 12-01-2012, 07:03 PM

Sounds like a good idea to connect with the seasoned Model A guy...

They drive a LOT differently from anything made after WW II.

charlesea · 12-01-2012, 07:08 PM

Banky, I realized I told you wrong on the retard. If you are fully advanced you can push up the lever 2-3or 4 notches & see if that helps any on the hills. Sorry about that.

Purdy Swoft · 12-01-2012, 07:52 PM

My 31 Tudor with a professional rebuilt completely stock engine would slow down to 29 mph in high gear on a very steep hill near where I live. After the engine broke in and the brakes wore in, It will now slow to around 35-37 mph. This is when I hit the bottom of the hill at 50 mph. My roadster with an overhauled by me engine and a 5.9 Brumfield head and a few other bolt on mods doesn't look back at any hill and will climb the same steep hill at 50 mph or better.

Stock model A's are very underpowered compaired to any modern car. Its sort of like a Cushman scooter or an old Volkswagen, You've got to keep the momentum built up for the hills. A stock model A should be able to cruise at 50 mph on level ground and have no problems with slight inclines.

You may have some timing or points gap problems. I set my original style points at .022 . I set the timing with the trailing edge of the rotor lined up with the number one contact in the distributor cap with NO clockwise backlash. Backlash is the free turning play in the distributor shaft and rotor. When the distributor points cam is tightened as in setting the timing , the trailing edge of the rotor tip needs to point directly at the number one contact in the distributor cap that connects to the number one spark plug. Counter clockwise backlash makes no difference but any clockwise backlash when the points cam is tightened causes the timing to be retarded. The reason for this is, the distributor turns counter clockwise but rides on the clockwise end of the backlash and they all have backlash. This may be hard to understand but is very important if you want to have full power.

The brakes, if adjusted too tight will put a real strain on the car and there should be NO brake drag. I set mine so that I can easily push the car with one hand on the bumper with the car on the cement floor of the shop.. Good luck.

12-01-2012, 12:00 PM	#1
Banky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 201	Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? Hi all, My 1930 stock tudor runs pretty good! However, my top speed going up a hill is about 25. Is this pretty much the norm, or do I have an issue? Lots of newbie questions from me, this is my first A. And I like the drive train stock, no other sound like it! thanks, Banky

12-01-2012, 12:18 PM	#2
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,089	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? How steep is the hill?

12-01-2012, 12:22 PM	#3
charlesea Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montgomery, Al. Posts: 640	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? Welcome to FB. A lot of help is available here. It all depends on the hill. I found that if I am facing a pretty good hill that I build up more speed on the level but I still loose about 10 to 15 MPH on my stock 31 Tudor. Another help is that if you are fully retarded you might try pushing up 3 to 4 notches & that might give you a little more power.

12-01-2012, 12:27 PM	#4
jjcom Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 22	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? Depends on how steep the hill is. There's some hills near where I live that I have no trouble doing about 40-45, but I can think of one hill near by that's very steep that about 25 would be tops. If it's just a mild incline, then I'd say something needs to be tweaked to help free up some power. This was before and after installing the 5.5 head mine has, though hill climbing is easier now. Does it have trouble getting up to say 50 or so on a flat road? It won't get you there in any huge hurry, though it should still feel like a smooth acceleration up to that speed. Good luck! __________________ 1930 Ford Model A Phaeton...fairly stock. 5.5 head and 6 volt alternator Modern Cars: 07 Grand Prix and 96 Grand Prix

12-01-2012, 12:46 PM	#5
[email protected] Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 730	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? In addition to retarding the spark level some, try opening up the GAV knob some when going up hill. It will richen up the carb fuel mixture to give you a little more power.

12-01-2012, 12:52 PM	#6
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Banky, is this is 3rd gear? I know when I go up a rather steep hill and can't make it in 3rd gear without lugging, I have to shift down to 2nd and 25 MPH is about the top I can or want to go in 2nd. __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

12-01-2012, 02:41 PM	#8
TerryH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fountain Valley, Calif. Posts: 937	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? If it is timed correctly, than it should never be "fully retarded" running at any kind of speed...it would have very little power and would also get quite hot I would think.....I would be sure it is correctly timed first.

12-01-2012, 03:13 PM	#9
Banky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 201	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? HI all: I guess I'm referring to pretty steep hills. In second, 3rd seems to loose power. So on hills try moving the spark lever up a few, more retard correct? (Not full retard) GAV? Assuming this is the Gas Air Choke knob correct? I have mine about 1/4 turn open all the time. Try opening it more on hills? THANKS ALL!!!! This is great advise. Even taking her time, I love driving my A!!! Banky

12-01-2012, 03:30 PM	#10
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? ????????? Who knows ?? I can find you a couple hills where you could walk faster..[ insert smiley face here]

12-01-2012, 04:50 PM	#11
Banky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 201	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? I took it out again. Just seems really slow up hills. I adjusted the timing lever, didn't seem to do much. I also turned the air/fuel mixture about 3/4 turn. Nothing really noticeable. Gonna hook up with a long time A driver here locally to see if I'm expecting to much? I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right, and that my motor if operating properly. thanks

12-01-2012, 07:03 PM	#12
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? Sounds like a good idea to connect with the seasoned Model A guy... They drive a LOT differently from anything made after WW II.

12-01-2012, 07:08 PM	#13
charlesea Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montgomery, Al. Posts: 640	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? Banky, I realized I told you wrong on the retard. If you are fully advanced you can push up the lever 2-3or 4 notches & see if that helps any on the hills. Sorry about that.

12-01-2012, 07:52 PM	#14
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Top Speed up Hill 25, Normal??? My 31 Tudor with a professional rebuilt completely stock engine would slow down to 29 mph in high gear on a very steep hill near where I live. After the engine broke in and the brakes wore in, It will now slow to around 35-37 mph. This is when I hit the bottom of the hill at 50 mph. My roadster with an overhauled by me engine and a 5.9 Brumfield head and a few other bolt on mods doesn't look back at any hill and will climb the same steep hill at 50 mph or better. Stock model A's are very underpowered compaired to any modern car. Its sort of like a Cushman scooter or an old Volkswagen, You've got to keep the momentum built up for the hills. A stock model A should be able to cruise at 50 mph on level ground and have no problems with slight inclines. You may have some timing or points gap problems. I set my original style points at .022 . I set the timing with the trailing edge of the rotor lined up with the number one contact in the distributor cap with NO clockwise backlash. Backlash is the free turning play in the distributor shaft and rotor. When the distributor points cam is tightened as in setting the timing , the trailing edge of the rotor tip needs to point directly at the number one contact in the distributor cap that connects to the number one spark plug. Counter clockwise backlash makes no difference but any clockwise backlash when the points cam is tightened causes the timing to be retarded. The reason for this is, the distributor turns counter clockwise but rides on the clockwise end of the backlash and they all have backlash. This may be hard to understand but is very important if you want to have full power. The brakes, if adjusted too tight will put a real strain on the car and there should be NO brake drag. I set mine so that I can easily push the car with one hand on the bumper with the car on the cement floor of the shop.. Good luck.