The Ford Barn

FrankWest · 12-24-2014, 09:25 PM

It would seem to me that if you are using a metal timing gear you should go heavy on the grease under the timing gear cover?

tbirdtbird · 12-24-2014, 09:30 PM

The Model A has a Niagra Falls of oil deluging the timing gears at all times. You need not take any special action; as has been reported here by many the metal gears are surprisingly quiet. In fact, way more quiet than the Model A engine itself.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-24-2014, 11:19 PM

I use grease to coat the gears during assembly, but as tbird said, the flood of oil will soon wash it off when the engine is started.

FrankWest · 12-25-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I use grease to coat the gears during assembly, but as tbird said, the flood of oil will soon wash it off when the engine is started.

Good to know

KGBnut · 12-26-2014, 08:47 AM

I switched to an aluminum gear from Bratton's when my fiber gear broke. I noticed absolutely no increase in noise. It may have even been quieter.

Ken

RUNNERBUN · 12-26-2014, 08:58 PM

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Because I do a lot of long distance driving I decided to go with the Aluminium cam gear despite reading of many warnings about the noise that they can generate. I replaced both the Cam and Crankshaft gear at the same time using the standard size.The fit was perfect with correct backlash and I hav'nt experienced any noise whatsoever from the gears. I strongly recommend changing both gears at the same time.

FrankWest · 12-26-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUNNERBUN

Because I do a lot of long distance driving I decided to go with the Aluminium cam gear despite reading of many warnings about the noise that they can generate. I replaced both the Cam and Crankshaft gear at the same time using the standard size.The fit was perfect with correct backlash and I hav'nt experienced any noise whatsoever from the gears. I strongly recommend changing both gears at the same time.

I don;t want to remove the crank gear only replace the cam gear with aluminum or bronze do you think I will have a problem getting a proper fit?

Chuck Sea/Tac · 12-26-2014, 10:06 PM

I don't know exactly, but starting points would be how much backlash do you have now? Is it a standard gear now? Probably is because of your mileage, which I think you said in a previous post as 40,000 ish.

Purdy Swoft · 12-26-2014, 11:24 PM

Nobody can guarantee that there will be no noise no matter what gears that are used. If the cam bearings are worn in the block or the main bearings have been filed to remove slack and the backlash isn't perfect you still may get some noise. If the gears aren't matched and the backlash isn't correct you run the risk of some noise even if both gears are installed. Can you measure the fit of the gears ??? Chances are more than likely that it is already noisey. These engines came with split skirt pistons that were noisey . I would bet that the wrist pins and cylinders have some wear that will give some noise . As you have been told, these old engines aren't the quietest. If you don't notice any of these things, its not likely that you will notice a faint noise that an 81 year old engine might make if the timing gears have a bit more than perfect backlash . One thing for sure is if you install a fiber gear it won't be long before it strips. Many of us have told you several times that we have installed just a metal cam timing gear aluminum or bronze and didn't detect any more noise. Some have installed a metal gear in an engine that no doubt was noisey any way and then wanted to blame the gear maker . If you are expecting a perfect engine, go ahead and pony up for a complete rebuild that will cost several thousand dollars and be done with it. Chances are good that you may still notice some little noise, tick whine or oil leak to fret over. The warranty usually isn't over 90 days and we often hear complaints and pictures of failed babbit work and scored cylinder bores . Forty thousand miles is a lot on these old engines. When I worked at Chevrolet dealerships in the 60s many engines needed an overhaul between forty and fifty thousand miles . Engines and lubricants have come a long ways since those days . I remember when Chrysler corp. came out with the fifty thousand mile warranty and most of the older mechanics said that would never work

. We all must make our own choices. You can probably install a metal cam gear and get more service out of the old engine but nobody is going to guarantee that it is going to be perfectly quiet .

FrankWest · 12-27-2014, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forever4

Judging by your endless repetitive questions and fretting, I suspect you are going to be dissatisfied and "have a problem" no matter what you decide to do.

Endless questions? It seems that the more question I ask the greater the variety of answers I get. You know nothing about me. I will be happy to see this car run. I am delighted with all the progress I have made understanding this wonderful car. People like you take all the joy out of things...I will ask you not to comment about me or my car.

Mike V. Florida · 12-27-2014, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I don;t want to remove the crank gear only replace the cam gear with aluminum or bronze do you think I will have a problem getting a proper fit?

I can't see how a fiber gear could wear down the crank gear that much. I replaced my fiber gear about 10 years ago after 20 years since a rebuild. I had no problems. I doubt you will.

I can see a need for a different size gear after a babbit job if the boreing is off a little.

Worst case you replace the gear and find out you need another.

FrankWest · 12-27-2014, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I can't see how a fiber gear could wear down the crank gear that much. I replaced my fiber gear about 10 years ago after 20 years since a rebuild. I had no problems. I doubt you will.

I can see a need for a different size gear after a babbit job if the boreing is off a little.

Worst case you replace the gear and find out you need another.

Thank you... For you wisdom. You brought a new reason to replace with a new fiber gear....wear on the crank gear. Great insight.
Whatever gear I replace it with, I will hand crank carefully to see if the gears are binding or too loose and replace accordingly.

rocket1 · 12-27-2014, 09:49 AM

Let us be civil,it is a question and answer forum,no personal attacks please.

FrankWest · 12-27-2014, 01:17 PM

I imagine Aluminum is the best choice If one wants to use metal and not choose to replace the crank gear. It is less than 1/2 as hard as the steel making up the crank gear. So even if the initial fit is tight. The aluminum would be subject to wear from the steel crank gear till the fit is right?
If you wanted to use a steel cam gear then you would have to start with a perfect fit.
I think Dan McEachem responded in this post that. A fiber can gear will eventually be worn down by a poorly fitting crank gear.

Purdy Swoft · 12-27-2014, 02:05 PM

Gears wear no matter what the composition. its not likely that it will be tight unless you install a too large oversize cam gear. The fit will be looser and it is not possible to say how much without proper measurement. Proper measurement won't necessarily be easy without experience and proper equipment. Fiber gears can wear metal crank gears. Rope seals wear crankshaft pulleys , neoprene seals wear grooves in water pump shafts and axles. Timing gears wear after years of wear and strain against the teeth. The valve springs hold tension against the teeth of the gears as the engine turns and wear does occur. A fiber timing gear may last many years if the car is seldom cranked up or driven.

hardtimes · 12-27-2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I imagine Aluminum is the best choice If one wants to use metal and not choose to replace the crank gear. It is less than 1/2 as hard as the steel making up the crank gear. So even if the initial fit is tight. The aluminum would be subject to wear from the steel crank gear till the fit is right?
If you wanted to use a steel cam gear then you would have to start with a perfect fit.
I think Dan McEachem responded in this post that. A fiber can gear will eventually be worn down by a poorly fitting crank gear.

Hey Frank,
FYI, unless the STOCK ford crank gear has been replaced with a McEachern STEEL type crank gear, the crank gear will be IRON (nodular).
You can test your crank gear to see if it is still iron, by using you pocket knife to cut/chip off a piece of the gear. You will NOT be able to chip the steel crank gear by McEachern !
Now when you determine that you have a possible 80 some year old crank gear, you will have to make a decision about worn gear running on new gear.
The decision (metal vs fiber cam gear) is EASY if you take a moment to consider all the work/money/time that is involved and how many times does a fellow want to engage in this activity

.
The decision to also replace BOTH cam and crank gears is also easy when you consider running a worn iron crank gear against any new cam gear vs running a new steel crank gear against a new matched metal cam gear !

Good luck

BTW...no grease !

12-24-2014, 09:25 PM	#1
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Metal timing gear noise It would seem to me that if you are using a metal timing gear you should go heavy on the grease under the timing gear cover?

12-24-2014, 09:30 PM	#2
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Metal timing gear noise The Model A has a Niagra Falls of oil deluging the timing gears at all times. You need not take any special action; as has been reported here by many the metal gears are surprisingly quiet. In fact, way more quiet than the Model A engine itself. __________________ '31 180A

12-24-2014, 11:19 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Metal timing gear noise I use grease to coat the gears during assembly, but as tbird said, the flood of oil will soon wash it off when the engine is started.

12-26-2014, 08:47 AM	#5
KGBnut Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Southwestern Connecticut Posts: 931	Re: Metal timing gear noise I switched to an aluminum gear from Bratton's when my fiber gear broke. I noticed absolutely no increase in noise. It may have even been quieter. Ken __________________ Style beats speed any day, and with a lot fewer tickets.

12-26-2014, 08:58 PM	#6
RUNNERBUN Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Queensland Australia Posts: 640	Re: Metal timing gear noise Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Because I do a lot of long distance driving I decided to go with the Aluminium cam gear despite reading of many warnings about the noise that they can generate. I replaced both the Cam and Crankshaft gear at the same time using the standard size.The fit was perfect with correct backlash and I hav'nt experienced any noise whatsoever from the gears. I strongly recommend changing both gears at the same time. __________________ Adjust your points with gentle blows of a 2 pound hammer

12-26-2014, 10:06 PM	#8
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Metal timing gear noise I don't know exactly, but starting points would be how much backlash do you have now? Is it a standard gear now? Probably is because of your mileage, which I think you said in a previous post as 40,000 ish.

12-26-2014, 11:24 PM	#9
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Metal timing gear noise Nobody can guarantee that there will be no noise no matter what gears that are used. If the cam bearings are worn in the block or the main bearings have been filed to remove slack and the backlash isn't perfect you still may get some noise. If the gears aren't matched and the backlash isn't correct you run the risk of some noise even if both gears are installed. Can you measure the fit of the gears ??? Chances are more than likely that it is already noisey. These engines came with split skirt pistons that were noisey . I would bet that the wrist pins and cylinders have some wear that will give some noise . As you have been told, these old engines aren't the quietest. If you don't notice any of these things, its not likely that you will notice a faint noise that an 81 year old engine might make if the timing gears have a bit more than perfect backlash . One thing for sure is if you install a fiber gear it won't be long before it strips. Many of us have told you several times that we have installed just a metal cam timing gear aluminum or bronze and didn't detect any more noise. Some have installed a metal gear in an engine that no doubt was noisey any way and then wanted to blame the gear maker . If you are expecting a perfect engine, go ahead and pony up for a complete rebuild that will cost several thousand dollars and be done with it. Chances are good that you may still notice some little noise, tick whine or oil leak to fret over. The warranty usually isn't over 90 days and we often hear complaints and pictures of failed babbit work and scored cylinder bores . Forty thousand miles is a lot on these old engines. When I worked at Chevrolet dealerships in the 60s many engines needed an overhaul between forty and fifty thousand miles . Engines and lubricants have come a long ways since those days . I remember when Chrysler corp. came out with the fifty thousand mile warranty and most of the older mechanics said that would never work . We all must make our own choices. You can probably install a metal cam gear and get more service out of the old engine but nobody is going to guarantee that it is going to be perfectly quiet .

12-27-2014, 09:49 AM	#13
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Metal timing gear noise Let us be civil,it is a question and answer forum,no personal attacks please.

12-27-2014, 01:17 PM	#14
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: Metal timing gear noise I imagine Aluminum is the best choice If one wants to use metal and not choose to replace the crank gear. It is less than 1/2 as hard as the steel making up the crank gear. So even if the initial fit is tight. The aluminum would be subject to wear from the steel crank gear till the fit is right? If you wanted to use a steel cam gear then you would have to start with a perfect fit. I think Dan McEachem responded in this post that. A fiber can gear will eventually be worn down by a poorly fitting crank gear.

12-27-2014, 02:05 PM	#15
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Metal timing gear noise Gears wear no matter what the composition. its not likely that it will be tight unless you install a too large oversize cam gear. The fit will be looser and it is not possible to say how much without proper measurement. Proper measurement won't necessarily be easy without experience and proper equipment. Fiber gears can wear metal crank gears. Rope seals wear crankshaft pulleys , neoprene seals wear grooves in water pump shafts and axles. Timing gears wear after years of wear and strain against the teeth. The valve springs hold tension against the teeth of the gears as the engine turns and wear does occur. A fiber timing gear may last many years if the car is seldom cranked up or driven.