What Part Would You Want to See Reproduced with Quality?

[ericr]

A recent post seems to indicate that parts dealers regularly read this blog, which is understandable and actually helpful to our hobby. I know that some dealers get a tongue-lashing here, but you know, after all is said and done, it is hard for me to believe that anyone would engage in that business without some level of interest if not affection for Model "A" Fords.

Anyway, perhaps it would be of value if dealers got some feedback from owners as to what part they want to see reproduced, or made in a higher-quality form.

[BlueSunoco]

Headlight bulb sockets....oh yes and good '30-'31 wind wing clamps

Good thread. Look at the response to Walt Bratton's headlight reflectors!!

[ronn]

I guess, as mentioned on another thread, new gas tanks would be awesome!

That is on the dream list.

[Synchro909]

How about more RHD parts. Throttle linkages, steering arms, brake cross shafts, clutch/brake pedals and bushes and shaft, bell housings, inlet manifolds, hand throttle levers and many more.
Oh, and another thing - rewrite instructions so that they refer to left or right side of the car, not driver's or passenger's side. We have to be alert when assembling things that we DON"T follow the instructions. I asked Snyder's one day "What happens if we assemble an engine as your instructions say and have the oil scoops on the co rods facing the driver's side? The engine would fail very quickly and because the instructions were followed, you would be responsible." The person to whom I spoke had no clue there would be a problem and there has been no change to their (or anybody else's) literature. This is an issue I have also raised about the Les Andrews books which for a right hand car are full of errors.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

This is a real subjective post for me but there is one MAJOR factor that many just do not seem to comprehend regarding quality. The majority of the time each & every reproduction item boils down to Costs to Produce, and R.O.I. It is just a matter of Economics 101.

Folks here can make lists a mile long of "dream items" and their peers will jump on the bandwagon. Then someone will jump in and say these vendors need to make better quality however the brutal truth is most people will not pay. I can cite example after example of quality items that were available yet the R.O.I. was so poor, the production was halted. The reason the R.O.I. was bad was because the manufacturer listened to hobbyists who said "if only XXX was offered, it would fly of the shelf!" ...but guess what, it didn't. Folks always seem to find an excuse why they can not step-up and pay the manufacturer's price. "My car is just a driver." or "I'm retired and I can't spend that kind of money."

In the defense of the vendors/manufacturers who do lurk here, most of them are very savvy business operators and they learn quickly about their market. Trust me when I say there is a reason why they manufacture a product to a certain level.

Now here is a thought, ...how many reproduction parts would not be necessary to manufacture if a typical Model-A Restorer could actually restore parts instead of replace parts?? That one kinda 'stings' don't it? My thought is show gratitude for whatever reproduction item is available, and buy the best quality you can afford if you cannot restore what you have.

[bikejunk]

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Well I guess it is all in fun I would say for most a good set of steel fenders

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by bikejunk

Well I guess it is all in fun I would say for most a good set of steel fenders

Yes, this has my vote... steel fenders that FIT!!

[Skibb]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Yes, this has my vote... steel fenders that FIT!!

+ 2 Amen

[Synchro909]

Agree Brent about the viability of small production runs of slow moving items but my comment about instructions are valid regardless of volume. I would not be the owner of a Model A if it weren't for the ready supply of parts. Please don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the availability of parts even though we have to repair more items than you guys.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

This is a real subjective post for me but there is one MAJOR factor that many just do not seem to comprehend regarding quality. The majority of the time each & every reproduction item boils down to Costs to Produce, and R.O.I. It is just a matter of Economics 101.

Folks here can make lists a mile long of "dream items" and their peers will jump on the bandwagon. Then someone will jump in and say these vendors need to make better quality however the brutal truth is most people will not pay. I can cite example after example of quality items that were available yet the R.O.I. was so poor, the production was halted. The reason the R.O.I. was bad was because the manufacturer listened to hobbyists who said "if only XXX was offered, it would fly of the shelf!" ...but guess what, it didn't. Folks always seem to find an excuse why they can not step-up and pay the manufacturer's price. "My car is just a driver." or "I'm retired and I can't spend that kind of money."

In the defense of the vendors/manufacturers who do lurk here, most of them are very savvy business operators and they learn quickly about their market. Trust me when I say there is a reason why they manufacture a product to a certain level.

Now here is a thought, ...how many reproduction parts would not be necessary to manufacture if a typical Model-A Restorer could actually restore parts instead of replace parts?? That one kinda 'stings' don't it? My thought is show gratitude for whatever reproduction item is available, and buy the best quality you can afford if you cannot restore what you have.

well, yes and no, isn't it? I just posted a comment where I returned a US made open car door lock that was substantially more expensive than foreign made but no greater in quality. On the flip side, Brattons's new headlamp reflectors seem to be gathering praise (and hopefully sales) and are substantially higher in cost than the former ones. Am I to think Walt doesn't know what he is doing or never heard of ROI?

Members have commented on who sells better running boards and trim, better nuts and bolts, carb jets, points, condenser and many other things and I think you advise people where to buy better fender welting.

I think nature, size, complexity and ultimate price of the part at issue might also be involved in the mix. Surely no one expects sellers to take a risk of loss but I also suspect there is some pecking order of parts dealers, some of whom can afford to take greater risks of ROI than others.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

ericr;919977 said;


Well, yes and no, isn't it? I just posted a comment where I returned a US made open car door lock that was substantially more expensive than foreign made but no greater in quality. On the flip side, Brattons's new headlamp reflectors seem to be gathering praise (and hopefully sales) and are substantially higher in cost than the former ones. Am I to think Walt doesn't know what he is doing or never heard of ROI?
No, Walt & Jeff are pretty smart guys who have traveled down this road many miles however most folks do not realize the behind-the-scenes obstacles they had to overcome just to manufacture reflectors. If I recall correctly, these have been 3-4 years in the making trying to find a manufacturer that will take on the project, produce in small (-affordable) quantities, and supply with Q/C from batch to batch. It goes without saying that if it were not for Walt's "depth" of his other parts, the reflectors would likely have never came to fruition by him. In other words, an average small businessman could not take the same idea and manufacture reflectors, and survive off of the sales. So what does that say about the parts manufacturing business in general?

Members have commented on who sells better running boards and trim, better nuts and bolts, carb jets, points, condenser and many other things and I think you advise people where to buy better fender welting.
Ok, you DO realize there is a magazine that is supposed to offer this very information to hobbyists.

The thought to ponder is how do folks here REALLY know which is better quality? How many on forums offer/give that advice based on hearsay but have no first-hand experience with the advice they are giving you? You mentioned running boards, ...so how many posters here actually get to personally install a pair from both vendors within a short amount of time to be able to say why one is better than the other. Adding to that, how many actually have studied the original item to compare? Very, -very few get this opportunity,--and that is why finding a parts vendor you can have a solid relationship with who gets feedback from reliable sources is key.

As far as "better" though, when you read some of the posts above, "better" is also defined as 'something affordable' or 'something that will get me by'. Those folks are being honest, ...many others have that same thought or mindset but choose not to speak it verbally however they show it with their wallet by what they purchase. Face it, if two like items are available in repro., it stands to reason that the better quality item will force the lesser-quality item to no longer sell and the manufacturer of the poorer-quality item ceases production in a matter of time. The problem is, the vendors will tell you that history dictates that just isn't the case.


I think nature, size, complexity and ultimate price of the part at issue might also be involved in the mix. Surely no one expects sellers to take a risk of loss but I also suspect there is some pecking order of parts dealers, some of whom can afford to take greater risks of ROI than others.
Trust me when I tell you that manufacturers AND sellers alike take a HUGE risk every time they place an order. There seemingly is no loyalty amongst hobbyists, and as such the majority of sales is driven off of price & convenience. Take this for example, let's suppose the word is getting around about how nice Walt's new reflectors really are. Now, a small (greedy) businessman buys a couple of his reflectors and sends them off to China or India to have the reverse-engineered and copied. Now without the R&D expense Walt incurred, nor his Marketing expenses or product acceptance risk, this person imports his reflectors and retails them for $20 less because his overhead/risk was lower. You know that Loyalty 'thingie' I just spoke about, there ain't none! Folks will get on the forums and tout how the new import is cheaper and just as good! Now Walt is left holding the bag trying to get at least get back to a break-even position.

Did someone say Nah, that probably wouldn't happen?. Don't tell that to me. If you don't believe me, then research Model-A brake drums and the like!! How is any of this good for the hobby? Justify it any way you like, but poor quality parts are the direct fault of the hobbyist, and not the vendor! The parts vendor/manufacturer only does what the customer asks for!

[ericr]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

ericr;919977 said;


Well, yes and no, isn't it? I just posted a comment where I returned a US made open car door lock that was substantially more expensive than foreign made but no greater in quality. On the flip side, Brattons's new headlamp reflectors seem to be gathering praise (and hopefully sales) and are substantially higher in cost than the former ones. Am I to think Walt doesn't know what he is doing or never heard of ROI?
No, Walt & Jeff are pretty smart guys who have traveled down this road many miles however most folks do not realize the behind-the-scenes obstacles they had to overcome just to manufacture reflectors. If I recall correctly, these have been 3-4 years in the making trying to find a manufacturer that will take on the project, produce in small (-affordable) quantities, and supply with Q/C from batch to batch. It goes without saying that if it were not for Walt's "depth" of his other parts, the reflectors would likely have never came to fruition by him. In other words, an average small businessman could not take the same idea and manufacture reflectors, and survive off of the sales. So what does that say about the parts manufacturing business in general?

Members have commented on who sells better running boards and trim, better nuts and bolts, carb jets, points, condenser and many other things and I think you advise people where to buy better fender welting.
Ok, you DO realize there is a magazine that is supposed to offer this very information to hobbyists.

The thought to ponder is how do folks here REALLY know which is better quality? How many on forums offer/give that advice based on hearsay but have no first-hand experience with the advice they are giving you? You mentioned running boards, ...so how many posters here actually get to personally install a pair from both vendors within a short amount of time to be able to say why one is better than the other. Adding to that, how many actually have studied the original item to compare? Very, -very few get this opportunity,--and that is why finding a parts vendor you can have a solid relationship with who gets feedback from reliable sources is key.

As far as "better" though, when you read some of the posts above, "better" is also defined as 'something affordable' or 'something that will get me by'. Those folks are being honest, ...many others have that same thought or mindset but choose not to speak it verbally however they show it with their wallet by what they purchase. Face it, if two like items are available in repro., it stands to reason that the better quality item will force the lesser-quality item to no longer sell and the manufacturer of the poorer-quality item ceases production in a matter of time. The problem is, the vendors will tell you that history dictates that just isn't the case.


I think nature, size, complexity and ultimate price of the part at issue might also be involved in the mix. Surely no one expects sellers to take a risk of loss but I also suspect there is some pecking order of parts dealers, some of whom can afford to take greater risks of ROI than others.
Trust me when I tell you that manufacturers AND sellers alike take a HUGE risk every time they place an order. There seemingly is no loyalty amongst hobbyists, and as such the majority of sales is driven off of price & convenience. Take this for example, let's suppose the word is getting around about how nice Walt's new reflectors really are. Now, a small (greedy) businessman buys a couple of his reflectors and sends them off to China or India to have the reverse-engineered and copied. Now without the R&D expense Walt incurred, nor his Marketing expenses or product acceptance risk, this person imports his reflectors and retails them for $20 less because his overhead/risk was lower. You know that Loyalty 'thingie' I just spoke about, there ain't none! Folks will get on the forums and tout how the new import is cheaper and just as good! Now Walt is left holding the bag trying to get at least get back to a break-even position.

Did someone say Nah, that probably wouldn't happen?. Don't tell that to me. If you don't believe me, then research Model-A brake drums and the like!! How is any of this good for the hobby? Justify it any way you like, but poor quality parts are the direct fault of the hobbyist, and not the vendor! The parts vendor/manufacturer only does what the customer asks for!

well nobody has so undercut Champion 3X plugs so as to cause them to cease production, and whenever anyone mentions them on Amazon, there is a stampede to buy them at a modest savings. But I am sure there is far more truth than poetry to what you are saying. I simply hope there are enough restorers that are willing to put their $ where their mouth is, and support our suppliers that take the risk to market better-quality parts.

If you read the publications, even when the cars were new, after-market suppliers were undercutting the factory on quality vs. price. Northing new under the sun, is there.

[Roadster62]

Years ago I sold a NOS 1930's Chevrolet door handle to a vendor at Hershey thas was going to add it to his line of reproductions. I asked him what R&D and tooling would cost to make the first one, the number he mentioned was mind boggeling. How anyone makes any reproduction part AND a profit amazes me. Bob

[C26Pinelake]

Short and sweet for me .... Gas tank !
Wayne

[Fred]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

Short and sweet for me .... Gas tank !
Wayne

It would be much "CHEAPER" to clean your Original the right way !!

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by Fred

It would be much "CHEAPER" to clean your Original the right way !!

Some of us are not looking for cheap, we are looking for convenience and I don't personally care if it is original. And sometimes they are rusted through and how do you clean holes ???
Wayne

[Fred]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

Some of us are not looking for cheap, we are looking for convenience and I don't personally care if it is original. And sometimes they are rusted through and how do you clean holes ???
Wayne

You will learn how to, Real Fast, When you go to buy your new Re-pop tank & then it wont fit !!

[Fred]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

Some of us are not looking for cheap, we are looking for convenience and I don't personally care if it is original. And sometimes they are rusted through and how do you clean holes ???
Wayne

Ok, Buy another tank & still do it right before you install it !!. Still will be CHEAPER !! P.S Read above post !!

"CONVENIENCE" ?? Just how long do you think you will have to wait for it to be made ??

[Terry,NJ]

Dammit, I'm not a multi millionaire and a SS check will only stretch so far. And as Brent says, we should be restoring the parts where possible. But somehow I've been made to feel as though restoring parts is like dumpster diving, "Put in a new one!" is the hue and cry of those with better retirement plans. Meanwhile I get to scrounge. I bought my fenders for $150 a pair, I did a helluva work on them (See my my profile "My 30 T.S.") All the while I was thinking of the guys who can afford new ones. OH Well! Such is life. My seat frames and springs are made from an old mattress and a Ash tree I cut down in the backyard. Dimensionally, it is identical to the old spring, so why should I care? Well....,It's... It's... HOMEMADE! Therefore it can't be any good, can it? Right? That's the thinking isn't it? Somehow using our skills only turns out substandard parts at best. SIGH!!!!
Terry

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Terry,NJ

Dammit, I'm not a multi millionaire and a SS check will only stretch so far. And as Brent says, we should be restoring the parts where possible. But somehow I've been made to feel as though restoring parts is like dumpster diving, "Put in a new one!" is the hue and cry of those with better retirement plans. Meanwhile I get to scrounge. I bought my fenders for $150 a pair, I did a helluva work on them (See my my profile "My 30 T.S.") All the while I was thinking of the guys who can afford new ones. OH Well! Such is life. My seat frames and springs are made from an old mattress and a Ash tree I cut down in the backyard. Dimensionally, it is identical to the old spring, so why should I care? Well....,It's... It's... HOMEMADE! Therefore it can't be any good, can it? Right? That's the thinking isn't it? Somehow using our skills only turns out substandard parts at best. SIGH!!!!
Terry

free parts are also helpful