The Ford Barn

bmodeltman · 07-22-2019, 06:17 PM

Are there different clutch pedals? I'm putting the car together from.parts and the clutch pedal hits the engine mount before it gets to the stop on the shaft collar. The clutch will not disengage. The clutch is new and adjusted fingers to 5/8 from top of.pressure plate. The clutch arm.isnt cracked. It has the correct throw.bearing hub. I have 4 inches of travel till it hits the engine mount. I have the one inch of free play so I only have 3inches of actual pedal pushing pressure plate.. Checked.the pedal with another and it doesn't seem bent. I did search and found something about a later pedal. This is my first A . I'm more familiar with the model T

bmodeltman · 07-22-2019, 07:00 PM

It is a 30 coupe single disc clutch. It has new pedal shaft and bushings

J Franklin · 07-22-2019, 07:40 PM

Was the new and old shaft machined the same?

bmodeltman · 07-22-2019, 07:51 PM

I would say yes. The pin in the bell housing is in line with the pin for the collar. The space between the collar stop and the pedal stop is almost 1/4 from each other when the pedal hits the mount. That would eliminate wear I would think because of not touching it. I must have a mismatch of parts somewhere. Just not familiar with what goes with what.

Mike Peters · 07-22-2019, 08:45 PM

You might experiment by adjusting the clutch adjusting yoke shorter, thus pushing the pressure plate fingers farther in, and decreasing pedal free play. Just see what happens.

bmodeltman · 07-22-2019, 09:36 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Is the pedal stop supposed to hit the collar stop before pedal hits the engine mount? Seems to.me it should.

J Franklin · 07-22-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmodeltman

Is the pedal stop supposed to hit the collar stop before pedal hits the engine mount? Seems to.me it should.

That is why I asked my first question. It should stop on the coller. Check the other side or build it up.

bmodeltman · 07-22-2019, 11:22 PM

With the pedal depressed the whole way down, what's the measurement between the pedal and engine mount?

ryanheacox · 07-23-2019, 08:46 AM

I know mine gets close to the engine mount. I'll check the distance this evening. Regardless of the pedal hitting the mount, I would think the clutch should be disengaging with that amount of travel. I would do as Mike suggests and take up some free play by adjusting the yoke and see what happens. You do have all the adjustments correct which is the most confusing part.

There are early and late pedals (forged vs stamped) but I'm pretty sure they are the same dimensionally. My 30 should have stamped pedals but the forged ones work just fine.

Benson · 07-23-2019, 10:32 AM

You say arm is not cracked.

Have you had someone push and hold down the pedal while you look at the arm under car from several different angles?

Many times the crack closes up and remains unseen if someone is not pushing pedal.

Many folks have been fooled into thinking the arm is fine.

1931 flamingo · 07-23-2019, 11:59 AM

Is the t/out bearing installed right??
Paul in CT

Mike Peters · 07-23-2019, 01:06 PM

e: Clutch pedal
You say arm is not cracked.

Have you had someone push and hold down the pedal while you look at the arm under car from several different angles?

Many times the crack closes up and remains unseen if someone is not pushing pedal.

Many folks have been fooled into thinking the arm is fine.
Last edited by Benson; Today at 11:13 AM.

Benson is right. Same thing happened to me last year.
I tried the clutch pedal on a rolling chassis and the pedal will touch the motor mount before it hits the clutch arm stop. Clutch should be long released before it gets anywhere near the frame.

John S · 07-23-2019, 02:32 PM

Just remove the inspection cover on the bell housing and see how much the release bearing and fork move when the pedal is pushed to the floor. This should tell you whether the pressure plate and disc or clutch linkage is what is causing the no release issue.

bmodeltman · 07-23-2019, 06:47 PM

This is just the chassis body is off. What I did today was put the brake pedal on also and found with collar on, the clutch pedal was an a little more an inch lower than the brake. The pedals are supposed to be even correct? I took the pin out of the collar and pulled the clutch pedal back to even them up this was done with the linkage off and found the hole in the collar on top is about half a hoIe off towards the rear from the shaft hole. I hooked up the linkage and took all free play out. Now the clutch releases at around 1/4 from engine mount. It engages as soon as I let up on the pedal. With this adjustment the throw out bearing moves around 3/4 inch.

bmodeltman · 07-23-2019, 06:54 PM

I did check the arm while the clutch was pushed and it didn't see any cracks. When I first started with this issue. I checked to make sure all the fingers touched the bearing evenly. They were perfect. Now I see the top ones aren't touching when the bottom ones are. I think I am going to start with another clutch and a new collar.

1955cj5 · 07-23-2019, 07:30 PM

I don't know if this will apply to your situation, but there are different clutch release shafts. Page 509 of the service bulletins book mentions the two and advises "not to mix them", quoted from the bulletin "as it would be impossible to move the clutch pedal far enough to release the clutch"

One has the holes drilled on centerline, the other is slightly offset.

Here are a couple pictures. "Correct" shaft on left.

Bob C · 07-23-2019, 07:50 PM

The stops on the pedals, bell housing and collar can be worn also.
Like 1955cj5 mentioned it could be an AA shaft.

Bob

bmodeltman · 07-23-2019, 08:07 PM

I did put both new shafts in with all new bushings. That not saying they sent me the wrong one. I will check that out. Thank you for the pictures.

John S · 07-23-2019, 09:07 PM

Even if you installed the wrong shaft, the release bearing should contact the pressure plate fingers squarely all at the same time. I'm really starting to think the pressure plate is at fault causing the little or no release issue.

bmodeltman · 07-24-2019, 05:50 AM

Today after work I am pulling trans and swapping out the pressure plate. I'm glad I found this issue before had chassis all together.

J Franklin · 07-24-2019, 11:32 AM

Pressure plate action CAN be adjusted.

bmodeltman · 07-24-2019, 09:09 PM

Here's what I found out tonight. I took the trans out and checked finger adjustments. They were way off. I had them with in .002 when I started. They went out of adjustment. Just by pushing in clutch. I did tap on them after adjusting them and rechecked them. Changed plate with another new one that came with car. They both look like they came from the same place. Checked fingers on it and they were out. Didn't adjust them and had the same result. Took it back apart. Measured the dish in flywheel. It is at 1.125 deep. Tried to find spec in Les Anderson book. Didn't see it but did find standard disc is supposed to be. 340. Mine is .400. Thought maybe that.060 is making the pedal have to move down far to release the clutch. I did check the throw out bearing shaft and it is the correct one. I think I will order a rebuilt clutch and disc from Bert's tomorrow. Does this sound like a good plan.? You guys have been a tremendous help so far. A lot of good advise. Thank you.

100IH · 07-25-2019, 01:41 PM

Through the mist I smell a clutch disc in backwards. if the fingers are leaning way in towards the pilot bearing and it won't release, that can happen. I'm thinking that it is hard to do it wrong on an A. And now I read the above post and retract the disc flip scenario. Been looking for the spec. on depth, recess, friction surface to shoulder at flywheel. Cant find it now, sorry.

bmodeltman · 07-25-2019, 03:54 PM

I did check disc and it was install correct. I'm going to experiment with the fingers at 3/4. If the fingers are closer to the disc and I adjust at pedal it should release higher on the pedal. Either way I did find out it is the disc with the springs that can come out. I still want to get a better disc and.pressure plate. I will try the 3/4 finger adjustment to see what happens

bmodeltman · 07-25-2019, 08:14 PM

I tried the 3/4 adjustment on the fingers and it made no difference. I tried an original wore out pressure plate.and.still.the same. The only thing I haven't changed yet is the disc. I only have this one that is .400 thick. Les Anderson says it's supposed to be.340. These new parts I have are at least 30 year old reproductions. This car has been apart at least that long.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-26-2019, 06:35 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Your 1.125" recess in the flywheel is fine. I recall someone posting the spec as 1.123".
Set the fingers to 11/16" after the new disc and pressure plate are installed.

Bob C · 07-26-2019, 10:13 AM

Any chance you have a AA throw out bearing hub?

Bob

bmodeltman · 07-26-2019, 01:28 PM

It does have the correct hub. Could I have the wrong clutch arm? How could I tell if it's right?

1955cj5 · 07-26-2019, 02:09 PM

Do you have a picture?

Here is a picture of my old repaired arm and the new replacement....sorry no measurement right now...

oldbird55 · 07-26-2019, 09:34 PM

Should I be able to push the clutch arm up by hand.

bmodeltman · 07-27-2019, 05:14 AM

I can push the pedal down by hand when all is hooked up but but not the arm it's self

bmodeltman · 07-27-2019, 05:17 AM

It moves by hand until it gets to the fingers on the pressure plate

oldbird55 · 07-27-2019, 07:43 PM

thanks

bmodeltman · 07-29-2019, 09:51 PM

I think I have my clutch issue solved. I got a new collar and found the old one was messed with before. The new collar brought the pedal up to 1/2 inch to being even with the brake pedal. I heated the clutch pedal and got it level with brake pedal. Also got a new clutch disc and pressure plate. Checked the new disc and it was .380 which was .020 thinner than the old disc. Checked the finger adjustment and put it together. Now the pedal feels good and disengages way before it hits the engine mount. All the small adjustments added to a lot at the top of the pedal. I want to thank everyone for their help. I sure did learn a lot.

t farr · 07-29-2019, 10:21 PM

I had the wrong ones previously fitted and didn't work well, changed it and no more problems with it.

07-22-2019, 06:17 PM	#1
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Clutch pedal Are there different clutch pedals? I'm putting the car together from.parts and the clutch pedal hits the engine mount before it gets to the stop on the shaft collar. The clutch will not disengage. The clutch is new and adjusted fingers to 5/8 from top of.pressure plate. The clutch arm.isnt cracked. It has the correct throw.bearing hub. I have 4 inches of travel till it hits the engine mount. I have the one inch of free play so I only have 3inches of actual pedal pushing pressure plate.. Checked.the pedal with another and it doesn't seem bent. I did search and found something about a later pedal. This is my first A . I'm more familiar with the model T

07-22-2019, 07:00 PM	#2
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal It is a 30 coupe single disc clutch. It has new pedal shaft and bushings

07-22-2019, 07:40 PM	#3
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,963	Re: Clutch pedal Was the new and old shaft machined the same?

07-22-2019, 07:51 PM	#4
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I would say yes. The pin in the bell housing is in line with the pin for the collar. The space between the collar stop and the pedal stop is almost 1/4 from each other when the pedal hits the mount. That would eliminate wear I would think because of not touching it. I must have a mismatch of parts somewhere. Just not familiar with what goes with what.

07-22-2019, 08:45 PM	#5
Mike Peters Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: South East Wisconsin Posts: 1,279	Re: Clutch pedal You might experiment by adjusting the clutch adjusting yoke shorter, thus pushing the pressure plate fingers farther in, and decreasing pedal free play. Just see what happens.

07-22-2019, 09:36 PM	#6
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Is the pedal stop supposed to hit the collar stop before pedal hits the engine mount? Seems to.me it should.

07-22-2019, 11:22 PM	#8
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal With the pedal depressed the whole way down, what's the measurement between the pedal and engine mount?

07-23-2019, 08:46 AM	#9
ryanheacox Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Northwest CT Posts: 1,092	Re: Clutch pedal I know mine gets close to the engine mount. I'll check the distance this evening. Regardless of the pedal hitting the mount, I would think the clutch should be disengaging with that amount of travel. I would do as Mike suggests and take up some free play by adjusting the yoke and see what happens. You do have all the adjustments correct which is the most confusing part. There are early and late pedals (forged vs stamped) but I'm pretty sure they are the same dimensionally. My 30 should have stamped pedals but the forged ones work just fine.

07-23-2019, 10:32 AM	#10
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,597	Re: Clutch pedal You say arm is not cracked. Have you had someone push and hold down the pedal while you look at the arm under car from several different angles? Many times the crack closes up and remains unseen if someone is not pushing pedal. Many folks have been fooled into thinking the arm is fine. Last edited by Benson; 07-23-2019 at 11:13 AM.

07-23-2019, 11:59 AM	#11
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Clutch pedal Is the t/out bearing installed right?? Paul in CT

07-23-2019, 01:06 PM	#12
Mike Peters Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: South East Wisconsin Posts: 1,279	Re: Clutch pedal e: Clutch pedal You say arm is not cracked. Have you had someone push and hold down the pedal while you look at the arm under car from several different angles? Many times the crack closes up and remains unseen if someone is not pushing pedal. Many folks have been fooled into thinking the arm is fine. Last edited by Benson; Today at 11:13 AM. Benson is right. Same thing happened to me last year. I tried the clutch pedal on a rolling chassis and the pedal will touch the motor mount before it hits the clutch arm stop. Clutch should be long released before it gets anywhere near the frame.

07-23-2019, 02:32 PM	#13
John S Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Ellis County, Texas Posts: 337	Re: Clutch pedal Just remove the inspection cover on the bell housing and see how much the release bearing and fork move when the pedal is pushed to the floor. This should tell you whether the pressure plate and disc or clutch linkage is what is causing the no release issue. __________________ John _________________________________ http://www.dmafc.com/

07-23-2019, 06:47 PM	#14
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal This is just the chassis body is off. What I did today was put the brake pedal on also and found with collar on, the clutch pedal was an a little more an inch lower than the brake. The pedals are supposed to be even correct? I took the pin out of the collar and pulled the clutch pedal back to even them up this was done with the linkage off and found the hole in the collar on top is about half a hoIe off towards the rear from the shaft hole. I hooked up the linkage and took all free play out. Now the clutch releases at around 1/4 from engine mount. It engages as soon as I let up on the pedal. With this adjustment the throw out bearing moves around 3/4 inch.

07-23-2019, 06:54 PM	#15
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I did check the arm while the clutch was pushed and it didn't see any cracks. When I first started with this issue. I checked to make sure all the fingers touched the bearing evenly. They were perfect. Now I see the top ones aren't touching when the bottom ones are. I think I am going to start with another clutch and a new collar.

07-23-2019, 07:50 PM	#17
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: Clutch pedal The stops on the pedals, bell housing and collar can be worn also. Like 1955cj5 mentioned it could be an AA shaft. Bob

07-23-2019, 08:07 PM	#18
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I did put both new shafts in with all new bushings. That not saying they sent me the wrong one. I will check that out. Thank you for the pictures.

07-23-2019, 09:07 PM	#19
John S Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Ellis County, Texas Posts: 337	Re: Clutch pedal Even if you installed the wrong shaft, the release bearing should contact the pressure plate fingers squarely all at the same time. I'm really starting to think the pressure plate is at fault causing the little or no release issue. __________________ John _________________________________ http://www.dmafc.com/

07-24-2019, 05:50 AM	#20
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal Today after work I am pulling trans and swapping out the pressure plate. I'm glad I found this issue before had chassis all together.

07-24-2019, 11:32 AM	#21
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,963	Re: Clutch pedal Pressure plate action CAN be adjusted.

07-24-2019, 09:09 PM	#22
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal Here's what I found out tonight. I took the trans out and checked finger adjustments. They were way off. I had them with in .002 when I started. They went out of adjustment. Just by pushing in clutch. I did tap on them after adjusting them and rechecked them. Changed plate with another new one that came with car. They both look like they came from the same place. Checked fingers on it and they were out. Didn't adjust them and had the same result. Took it back apart. Measured the dish in flywheel. It is at 1.125 deep. Tried to find spec in Les Anderson book. Didn't see it but did find standard disc is supposed to be. 340. Mine is .400. Thought maybe that.060 is making the pedal have to move down far to release the clutch. I did check the throw out bearing shaft and it is the correct one. I think I will order a rebuilt clutch and disc from Bert's tomorrow. Does this sound like a good plan.? You guys have been a tremendous help so far. A lot of good advise. Thank you.

07-25-2019, 01:41 PM	#23
100IH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 970	Re: Clutch pedal Through the mist I smell a clutch disc in backwards. if the fingers are leaning way in towards the pilot bearing and it won't release, that can happen. I'm thinking that it is hard to do it wrong on an A. And now I read the above post and retract the disc flip scenario. Been looking for the spec. on depth, recess, friction surface to shoulder at flywheel. Cant find it now, sorry. Last edited by 100IH; 07-25-2019 at 02:09 PM.

07-25-2019, 03:54 PM	#24
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I did check disc and it was install correct. I'm going to experiment with the fingers at 3/4. If the fingers are closer to the disc and I adjust at pedal it should release higher on the pedal. Either way I did find out it is the disc with the springs that can come out. I still want to get a better disc and.pressure plate. I will try the 3/4 finger adjustment to see what happens

07-25-2019, 08:14 PM	#25
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I tried the 3/4 adjustment on the fingers and it made no difference. I tried an original wore out pressure plate.and.still.the same. The only thing I haven't changed yet is the disc. I only have this one that is .400 thick. Les Anderson says it's supposed to be.340. These new parts I have are at least 30 year old reproductions. This car has been apart at least that long.

07-26-2019, 06:35 AM	#26
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Clutch pedal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Your 1.125" recess in the flywheel is fine. I recall someone posting the spec as 1.123". Set the fingers to 11/16" after the new disc and pressure plate are installed.

07-26-2019, 01:28 PM	#28
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal It does have the correct hub. Could I have the wrong clutch arm? How could I tell if it's right?

07-26-2019, 09:34 PM	#30
oldbird55 Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: e tenn Posts: 63	Re: Clutch pedal Should I be able to push the clutch arm up by hand.

07-27-2019, 05:14 AM	#31
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I can push the pedal down by hand when all is hooked up but but not the arm it's self

07-27-2019, 05:17 AM	#32
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal It moves by hand until it gets to the fingers on the pressure plate

07-27-2019, 07:43 PM	#33
oldbird55 Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: e tenn Posts: 63	Re: Clutch pedal thanks

07-29-2019, 09:51 PM	#34
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: Clutch pedal I think I have my clutch issue solved. I got a new collar and found the old one was messed with before. The new collar brought the pedal up to 1/2 inch to being even with the brake pedal. I heated the clutch pedal and got it level with brake pedal. Also got a new clutch disc and pressure plate. Checked the new disc and it was .380 which was .020 thinner than the old disc. Checked the finger adjustment and put it together. Now the pedal feels good and disengages way before it hits the engine mount. All the small adjustments added to a lot at the top of the pedal. I want to thank everyone for their help. I sure did learn a lot.

07-29-2019, 10:21 PM	#35
t farr Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Auckland New Zealand Posts: 32	Re: Clutch pedal I had the wrong ones previously fitted and didn't work well, changed it and no more problems with it.