Reinforced Mains

[Kurt in NJ]

After my Brothers April 1 post about alternative bearings, and the reverse oiling posts I figured I would throw this on the fire too ---a reinforcing method for crummy babbitt, just think now you won't have to worry if your babbitt cracks, the reinforcing mesh will keep it together!!

Just think, a layer of tinned brass mesh as another line of defense to keep the crank off the steel when your babbitt crumbles.

[James Rogers]

Look out Kurt, better get them fireproof bloomers on!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

After my Brothers April 1 post about alternative bearings, and the reverse oiling posts I figured I would throw this on the fire too ---a reinforcing method for crummy babbitt, just think now you won't have to worry if your babbitt cracks, the reinforcing mesh will keep it together!!

Just think, a layer of tinned brass mesh as another line of defense to keep the crank off the steel when your babbitt crumbles.

Kurt,
Not knowing much of poured babbit, except that it cracks AND many stmts here that...'the thicker the babbit, the more likely there will be problems', wouldn't your suggested addition require that the babbit be 'thicker' ..therefor not good babbit engineering

[ctlikon0712]

I think a good mixture of horsehair mixed into the molding process would do a better job! lol

[mach0415]

Originally Posted by ed

you can sure tell you are brothers!

lmao! But its guys like you that think outside the box and come up with some really useful stuff...engineering minds stuff.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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'the thicker the babbit, the more likely there will be problems' End Quote

Mr. Hard Times, that statement is only used by people that don't know how to pour babbitt, and passed along by people that don't know the difference! Herm.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

'the thicker the babbit, the more likely there will be problems' End Quote

Mr. Hard Times, that statement is only used by people that don't know how to pour babbitt, and passed along by people that don't know the difference! Herm.

Herm,
Yeah, IT sure has been passed along a number of times on this site! My using it ...was in the form of a question (?).
So as not to get further confused by this thickness subject...are you saying that that's not true and that thicker is better

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Herm,
Yeah, IT sure has been passed along a number of times on this site! My using it ...was in the form of a question (?).
So as not to get further confused by this thickness subject...are you saying that that's not true and that thicker is better

In a cast iron bearing, thicker does not matter, but to thin of babbitt can break up just because the thin babbitt has no strength, unless it is .030 at least, .040 would be better.

If the bearing will tin, you can go as thin as you want, as long as you don't go through the babbitt, and hit the shell.

Herm.

[ctlikon0712]

That's why the Horse Hair or chicken wire is so helpful! lol

In a cast iron bearing, thicker does not matter, but to thin of babbitt can break up just because the thin babbitt has no strength, unless it is .030 at least, .040 would be better.

If the bearing will tin, you can go as thin as you want, as long as you don't go through the babbitt, and hit the shell.

Herm.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

After my Brothers April 1 post about alternative bearings, and the reverse oiling posts I figured I would throw this on the fire too ---a reinforcing method for crummy babbitt, just think now you won't have to worry if your babbitt cracks, the reinforcing mesh will keep it together!!

Just think, a layer of tinned brass mesh as another line of defense to keep the crank off the steel when your babbitt crumbles.

Kurt, I would like to ask, are you serious? I have some serious thoughts on this but, I don't want to post serious replies to a bogus question. Not trying to be a smart alex but would like to know.

[roadster31]

Kurt, just keep on tinkerin' I doubt if it will work but don't let that stop you. the nay-sayers have shown up throught history. There was one when the first steam engine was unveiled. He said "ha, it'll never start!" When it began to move he said in panic "it'll never stop." Careful babbitting, correct tollerances and balance will give your babbitt a long life that is hard to improve on, but dont stop trying to make things better. E LaBrash

[Kevin in NJ]

Kurt is just having some more fun from my April first joke.

From the metallurgical point of view it would be a huge source of discontinuities. In layman's terms, it would introduce a lot of places for the babbitt to break.

While pouring it would add to porosity. The babbitt would likely end up with voids in the area the the wire. This would make internal stress points that will start cracking in short order once you start the engine.

If you got the babbitt to go around the wire perfectly, the wire would affect crystallization and cause stress points. Again causing discontinuities leading to crack formation.

Some secrets to babbitt bearings are to get a pour that allows for the whole liquid to nicely and rapidly cool to form lots of small crystals. While still warm enough the non-tinned surfaces will need the babbitt peened to lock down tight to the saddle. Sounds easy, but in practice, well you need to practice a lot to perfect the process. So you pour it in and peel it out until you consistently full coverage with no voids.

We hopefully will be getting to building a couple of motors for our cars (and a few extras while we are at it) later this year. I am likely to document the process so we will share our experiences. We are planning on doing a lot of practice pours with old babbitt before we move on to the expensive real stuff.

[Kurt in NJ]

Ok, I will say that I made this just for fun, I was cleaning out a corner, it had scraps of this mesh, it was a 5min play project, I don't see it being any advantage to properly poured and fitted Babbitt , i havn't tried it in any engines, perhaps when I am pouring next I will pour it then chop it out to see what it looks like underneath the surface.

The method of bonding to the block, or cap is a factor in the thickness of the babbitt.
If the Babbitt is mechanically bonded the thickness is strength, but it also has to be supported, it is much like an insert, it has to fit the bore of the bearing, when it is cast in place it shrinks as it cools and has to be expanded to full contact with the bore ,when it is chemically bonded(tinned)the babbit can be thin because it is supported by it's bond to the substrate ---wether it is a cap like in the "A", or a modern insert, this along with proper material, temp of pour,and cooling is what makes a bearing that is very hard to hurt---no matter what you do to it ---I have tried to break the babbitt in my car, from all day driving flat out to 5mph for hours in 3rd going in a circle---even having an out of balance condition hasn't caused a failure---yet

My Brother thinks the Babbitt won't flow and bond to the mesh , I think it will.

[hardtimes]

Kurt,
I hope at some point in time, that you do that experiment, as it sounds like you have a clue and it would be interesting to see the outcome. Mabe it wasn't done in the past...because of extra work involved/expense? One question tho..there's always comments/pics showing 'foreign' material (other than the babbit,i.e.- dirt,metal chips) getting in on babbit and scoring crank. If your 'mesh' were to touch crank...IMO that would be taking a risk,eh?