Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2020, 11:28 AM   #1
mrtexas
Senior Member
 
mrtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 4,393
Default Won't start

Haven't thought about Model As recently as I sold both a few years ago. I'm helping out the guy I sold my 29 roadster to. Won't start.

He replaced the battery. It died on him out driving and wouldn't start. 6v positive ground, alternator, original pop out switch and added fuse on the starter. No horn, no lights. Fuse is good. I checked the voltage to the coil with the ignition turned on. No voltage. Hot wired with jumper from starter to coil, no start. Hot wired no spark.

I'm thinking pop out switch, condenser or light switch?
__________________
41 woodie https://41fordwoodie.weebly.com/
mrtexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 11:50 AM   #2
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,438
Default Re: Won't start

here's a super-simple hot wire with ignition swtich and armoured cable disconnected( in case there's a short to earth within either of them)

PS off topic my favourite palindrome is... A man.A plan. A canal. Panama!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf super simple fhot wiring.pdf (234.7 KB, 104 views)
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-24-2020, 11:57 AM   #3
wmws
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 719
Default Re: Won't start

Check for voltage coming off your fuse. It may look good but may not be. Just keep going up with a test light or multimeter until you run out of juice and you will find your problem.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 12:03 PM   #4
vern hodgson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: langley, wa.
Posts: 642
Default Re: Won't start

Carburetor float working properly? Carb dirty? I have seen a carb full of mold, every thing plugged
vern hodgson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 12:15 PM   #5
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,686
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: Won't start

Sure sounds like your fuse looks good, but is not. Check it with an ohm meter or test light.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 12:22 PM   #6
Sunnybrook Farm
Senior Member
 
Sunnybrook Farm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 409
Default Re: Won't start

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
If it died on him originally there must be something shorting out the system, maybe disconnect the alternator just for a test, then maybe try another coil and the switch including armored cable, they will short. I assume the starter is turning over and that the engine just won't fire.
Sunnybrook Farm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 12:33 PM   #7
Jim/GA
Senior Member
 
Jim/GA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Young Harris, GA
Posts: 1,808
Default Re: Won't start

Original style pop-out switches look cool but are a reliability nightmare.

When they are pushed in (off) they are designed to ground the points. So it is possible for them to fail and keep the points grounded. This makes a hotwire not work. The switch needs to be disconnected from the distributor to get rid of this ground on the points.

Put a small piece of paper or business card between the points to keep them disconnected from the ground and then see if the wire-side of the points have full voltage. If you don't see full 6 volts like this, the points are still grounded. If they are, it's the switch OR THE WIRE INSIDE THE DISTRIBUTOR FROM LOWER PLATE TO UPPER PLATE IS SHORTED OUT. This happens more often than people realize.

The first step is to insert the little scrap of paper and read the voltage.
__________________
Jim Cannon
Former MAFCA Technical Director
"Have a Model A day!"
Jim/GA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 12:41 PM   #8
mrtexas
Senior Member
 
mrtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 4,393
Default Re: Won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmws View Post
Check for voltage coming off your fuse. It may look good but may not be. Just keep going up with a test light or multimeter until you run out of juice and you will find your problem.
That was it! Fuse looked good but wasn't. He just changed the battery and must have shorted it out!
__________________
41 woodie https://41fordwoodie.weebly.com/
mrtexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:51 PM   #9
wmws
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 719
Default Re: Won't start

You may possibly have a short somewhere that blew the fuse. I would wiggle some wires around and make sure the fuse doesn't blow again.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 03:24 PM   #10
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 4,214
Default Re: Won't start

The fuse holder can be a problem.
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 04:08 PM   #11
mrtexas
Senior Member
 
mrtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 4,393
Default Re: Won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob View Post
The fuse holder can be a problem.
The fuse was blown but looked good. Took out fuse and didn't test OK. Fuse probably blown when battery changed. Tooted the horn and it didn't sound right. Checked the battery and it was 12v! Henry, the owner, will take battery back and get a 6v. Owner towed the car 60 miles to get it to me!
__________________
41 woodie https://41fordwoodie.weebly.com/
mrtexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 04:12 PM   #12
mrtexas
Senior Member
 
mrtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 4,393
Default Re: Won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim/GA View Post
Original style pop-out switches look cool but are a reliability nightmare.

When they are pushed in (off) they are designed to ground the points. So it is possible for them to fail and keep the points grounded. This makes a hotwire not work. The switch needs to be disconnected from the distributor to get rid of this ground on the points.
Thanks for this reminder!
__________________
41 woodie https://41fordwoodie.weebly.com/
mrtexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 04:41 PM   #13
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 4,214
Default Re: Won't start

Have changed fuse holders because of poor construction.
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 06:44 PM   #14
Humperhill
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 54
Default Re: Won't start

Have you checked your ground from the battery? You mention nothing works so it must be something in common with all the circuits like the main fuse coming off the battery, ignition switch or the ground? Seems like if it was in the starter you would still have the other circuits working.

If me I would check ground first, then try by passing the main fuse as it sounds like you have one, then by pass the ignition switch.

Let us know what you find as we will file it away for when we run into this problem.
Eric
Humperhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 07:58 PM   #15
Conaway2
Senior Member
 
Conaway2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC
Posts: 601
Default Re: Won't start

If the wiring in the armored ignition cable is original, I would replace it. I had a similar problem recently, and the insulation on the original ignition wire had crumbled to dust and shorted out....
Conaway2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 11:12 AM   #16
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 3,114
Default Re: Won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtexas View Post
The fuse was blown but looked good. Took out fuse and didn't test OK. Fuse probably blown when battery changed. Tooted the horn and it didn't sound right. Checked the battery and it was 12v! Henry, the owner, will take battery back and get a 6v. Owner towed the car 60 miles to get it to me!
Check for burned out light bulbs !
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 09:49 PM   #17
pjdeb
Senior Member
 
pjdeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: The Villages, FL
Posts: 103
Default Re: Won't start

People have talked about the fuse holder as a potential problem. Most of us have installed the glass fuse type. Would the ATO type blade fuse be a better set up?
pjdeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 11:19 AM   #18
Jim/GA
Senior Member
 
Jim/GA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Young Harris, GA
Posts: 1,808
Default Re: Won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdeb View Post
People have talked about the fuse holder as a potential problem. Most of us have installed the glass fuse type. Would the ATO type blade fuse be a better set up?
Probably better. Depends on which fuse holder you choose.

The key is to use a fuse that is fully enclosed in a weatherproof, waterproof fuse holder, not one that's out in the open, exposed to coolant, oil, dirt, moisture.

I have seen fuse holders that use the flat blade type fuses with a weatherproof rubber cap that fully encloses the fuse. That will be more reliable in the long run. Something like the attached photo.

The simple clip-in style fuse holders that are open to the elements also loosen up with age and vibration. This leads to poor connections and irregular running of the car. I have seen it multiple times while driving on long distance tours with others. We bypassed the fuse and the engine ran great again!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Weatherproof fuse holder.jpg (29.9 KB, 14 views)
__________________
Jim Cannon
Former MAFCA Technical Director
"Have a Model A day!"
Jim/GA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 12:22 PM   #19
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,004
Default Re: Won't start

Quote:
The fuse was blown but looked good.
Learned that a long time ago, just because a fuse looks good, it doesn't mean it is. Sorta like a woman.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2020, 02:57 PM   #20
29abone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: minneapolis, mn.
Posts: 24
Default Re: Won't start

This is a topic that is plaguing me right now as well. Got one of those fuse holders ( & all new wiring, ignition switch, coil) got power from the battery to the starter, to the fuse holder, then...nothing. Pulled the fuse, & it looks good. Looks like i have something to look forward to tonight after work
29abone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 AM.