L.O.L. judging at Buffalo, A.A.C.A.

[peters180a/170b]

So i received my 10 th preservation award [that's what show cars do ] they attend National meets. So after the meet one of the "A" judges who owns a Model "A" [1931] Asked me why my car does not have fender welting between my fender and splash shield horn.?My car is a mid 1930 [Aug.] Do i need to say anything more...you can't make this shit up... splash Horn was spot welded to fender till Nov. 1930 and no later then Dec of 1930

[mshmodela]

Pardon my ignorance but is not "preservation" class to keep the car as is... not to restore it... (please correct me...)

[Roadster62]

NO, the HPOF Class is for unrestored cars, Historical Preservation of Features. The Preservation Award is for showing up show after show after show with a National First Place winning car. Bob

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Pardon my ignorance but is not "preservation" class to keep the car as is... not to restore it... (please correct me...)

[Fred]

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

So i received my 10 th preservation award [that's what show cars do ] they attend National meets. So after the meet one of the "A" judges who owns a Model "A" [1931] Asked me why my car does not have fender welting between my fender and splash shield horn.?My car is a mid 1930 [Aug.] Do i need to say anything more...you can't make this shit up... splash Horn was spot welded to fender till Nov. 1930 and no later then Dec of 1930

So why do you keep going ??

[Mike V. Florida]

Pete still have that frog, what was his name?

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

So i received my 10 th preservation award [that's what show cars do ] they attend National meets. So after the meet one of the "A" judges who owns a Model "A" [1931] Asked me why my car does not have fender welting between my fender and splash shield horn.?My car is a mid 1930 [Aug.] Do i need to say anything more...you can't make this shit up... splash Horn was spot welded to fender till Nov. 1930 and no later then Dec of 1930

OK OK The judging guidelines from the AACA for the model a is what, 10 pages. and the Model A national clubs, 360 pages. How much can they know really about every auto more than 25 years old?

[ctlikon0712]

OK OK The judging guidelines from the AACA for the model a is what, 10 pages. and the Model A national clubs, 360 pages. How much can they know really about every auto more than 25 years old?

Really, 10 pages is all? I knew that as a rule they weren't all that knowledgeable about our A's but that speaks volumes.

Pardon the pun

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

Really, 10 pages is all? I knew that as a rule they weren't all that knowledgeable about our A's but that speaks volumes.

Pardon the pun

OK maybe not 10

http://www.aaca.org/images/judge/201...Guidelines.pdf

[ctlikon0712]

Thanks for the link Mike.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

In reality, I think there is two distinctive differences between AACA judging and MARC/MAFCA judging.

In the Model-A club judging, the focus is more about the score (i.e.: who can obtain the highest score) for bragging rights later. In AACA, the focus is the display and audience interaction. The scores are not revealed in AACA and the trophy is a small "carrot" dangled as a reason to come back and participate again. By percentages, very few people get unhappy at an AACA show over the outcome, ...unlike at a Model-A judging event. At an AACA event, the club focus is to attract public spectators to come and enjoy vintage automobiles whereas the MARC/MAFCA judging is closed to the public. I am NOT saying one is right and the other is wrong, it's just a difference in the goals and objectives. Therefore THAT is why many car owners return for Repeat Preservation chips. An AACA event is WAY more than just a show on Saturday.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I've often wondered, to myself, just HOW much an AACA judged car really would stack up to a MARC/MAFCA judged car. I think you guys just answered that one here.

Although I've seen antique cars with AACA bragging rights when they are judged 'the best', and some have been pretty nice, I feel if the car went through the MAFCA/MARC judging and it rec'd high marks, THEN it is a much better car at least in my eyes as compared to an AACA judged car.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I've often wondered, to myself, just HOW much an AACA judged car really would stack up to a MARC/MAFCA judged car. I think you guys just answered that one here.

Although I've seen antique cars with AACA bragging rights when they are judged 'the best', and some have been pretty nice, I feel if the car went through the MAFCA/MARC judging and it rec'd high marks, THEN it is a much better car at least in my eyes as compared to an AACA judged car.

I think there is some slight misunderstandings going on. First off, I am not sure how a car owner could have "bragging rights" with AACA scoring by touting their car is 'the best' when the scores are never revealed. It is possible that every car in the class would win 1st place, and if that happened, how does one honestly say theirs was the best? All each car needs to do is meet the minimum score and all be within 10 points of the highest score for everyone to receive 1st place.

As far as a car that went through MAFCA/MARC judging, that can be deceiving too. Many Model-A 'Touring Class' cars have been "bragged about" too where the car may have scored in the 480s or 490s yet the Owners listed the car scored 480 something out of 500 points in Model-A Club Judging. I have seen some of those cars and they honestly are not, --if any better than some cars who won their Senior with AACA.

Therefore it is all about how misleading someone really wants to be in either venue.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Brent, I recall looking at a '35 Ford Pickup years ago in Wisconsin. The owner told me it had won an AACA Senior Division 'First Place' not long before. I went cash in hand to buy the truck.

Quite bluntly, the thing was a real turd. I wasted 400 miles of driving and 7 hours of my time. I forgot to ask him, if 'before' meant before, as in another life not on this earth.

After that I just have a prejudice against comparing an AACA winner vs. a Marc of Excellence Model A or one that won a Henry Ford award or whatever. THOSE cars usually look pretty good in my eye. The judges that judged that pickup had to be related to the owner.

[1930artdeco]

I have a quality of car question here. If one shows a Model A at a MARC/MAFCA event and wins say 485 out of 500 points, that to me says "This owner got the car pretty darn close to coming off of the factory line." Then the price and bragging rights can go with that car. If a car earns a 1st place in an AACA competition-lets say an equivalent number of points they get bragging rights.

Now, I have seen in both camps where a person goes to sell a car and they say "1st place in......". My question is, if I am looking at a Model A how do I know that it is an equivalent winner with MARC/MAFCA? It does not look like they get as detailed with a car as we do? I guess this question can go to the concourse d' elegance shows as well. Are they just looking to make sure things are period correct and not yearly correct?

Just curious

Mike

[peters180a/170b]

Someone asked why i keep on going.. First to meet "FRIENDS" in the hobby. You meet these friends once or twice a year , that's why i am going to French Lick to meetup with a group we had a great time with. I am going for my Master Award which i did only once before and if you have a show car where would you go where people appreciate the car coming out. You meet great people at these meets and most of the time for the first time after speaking with them time and time again on the phone [Marco] .Buffalo i judged with a FORDBARN guy and only know each other here. We started talking about what cars we had and he knew me right off when i said a black 180A. Hershey i spend 2 days running around saying hello . Heading to Tenn. next week and will meet up with 3 people there with their cars. That's where i find my fun in life meeting up with people in different states. So another guy on FORDBARN was team captain for the "A" [and thank God] and he is also a Judge for MARC & MAFCA for years. I alos go and look at ENGINES of all types of cars below 1932. Its unreal looking at some of those engines . ITS ALL FOR FUN. and to get away from work and the real world.[p.s it is not hard to get a first award in A.A.C.A. ] I have seen some really bad cars right up to Senior awards.

[peters180a/170b]

1930artdeco...don't go by the awards unless the car is complete as when it won. I have seen MARC/MAFCA top cars and all the goodies have been taken off before the forsale sign goes on the windshield. If you want to buy a car ,buy it the day it won and right off the show field into your trailer. Fan belts , hoses , vacuum/gas lines ,complete tool kit, rubber mats and yes radiator shells and bumpers go back to their original owners [loners]

[Clem Clement]

I heard of a contender that rented a red fan belt for $80. He put it on after the start and idle session.

[Roadster62]

MARC/MAFCA people only care about Model A's they are clueless to any other motorized velicles. AACA accepts anything 25 years old. If a team spends 15 minutes per car it is a really slow bunch of guys that never judged together before that day. It is a fair system the best cars win 99.9% of the time. Years ago Pete Brewer told me his was a Model A horn judge, is that really true, one guy spends the day disecting horns, while other experts judge other parts of the car? Behind closed doors I've been told. AACA Judging was fun for 30 years, then it just got old and I quit. Bob

[Mike Peters]

A year ago last fall we attended Hershey for the first time. There was a spiffy 28 Tudor for sale for 24k. The car had an AACA
senior award badge on the radiator. I noticed that the car had an era aftermarket electric wiper motor, incorrect for a 28 closed car. I made the mistake of pointing this out to the owner. He pointed to the AACA badge and basically told me to mind my own business, which I did. I went away not impressed with AACA judging. As was pointed out earlier, AACA judges all cars 25 years old and older, so there is no way that these people could know much about the fine points of what is original and what is not on any given car.

[Binger]

AACA judges training consists of general guidelines for all makes. They judge on 3 things originality of parts and materials, workmanship and general upkeep. It is easy for some incorrect parts to get buy a judge. A lot of times AACA judges aren't familiar with specific parts for specific makes and years. At one meet a judge may be on a team that covers motorcycles and the next time on a team that covers production cars from the 1950's. A judge can request to judge a specific class but that is not always the case due to needs for judges in other classes.
With that being said, Its my opinion that it is more fun to take your car on a tour instead of sitting in a parking lot all day polishing a car.