Brake advice needed

[pjdeb]

Newbie questions:

I adjusted the brakes according to instructions in Les Andrews book. Thye are better, but I do not think they are as good as they should be. No way will they lock up at 20 mph.

I pulled the front drums to grease the wheel bearings. There is plenty of shoe left, but they look very glazed.

With a day's worth of effort I got the rear hubs off. Same situation. Plenty left, but look hard as a polished rock. I have read that you can rough them up with 80 grit paper or even a Dremmel.

Should the brakes glaze over like that?

Thanks.

[Russ/40]

All of the HARD materials tend to. Whats important is good contact across the length of the shoe. They may benefit from being arched, if you can find someone who does it.

[DRG-ler]

Roughening the surface can work well. But you should make sure that the coverings are free of asbestos.

I set my brakes after this youtube video.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo



I found this guide quite good.
However, I made a change. In contrast to the Ford book and the video, I reversed the brake. So that the front axle brakes more. The reason is that, according to physics, about 70 percent of the braking energy is absorbed via the front axle. If the rear axle brakes too hard, it can lock up and cause the car to skid. The rear axle ensures the straight track!

I have been driving for a year without problems with good braking effect!

Greetings from Berlin
Andy

[pjdeb]

Interesting Andy! That is exactly what I found when I adjusted the brakes. They were set at 60 front and 40 rear. I "corrected" per the book. As I get further into the brake system, over time I will experiment.

Thanks

[larrys40]

I do lots of brake work and have given some of the seminars at the national meets. It pains me when people show adjusting brakes from this YouTube video posted in post 3.
First of all the brakes must be restored properly and throughly to function right which includes making sure all bushings, shafts, levers, pins, shoes and linings and drums as well as a complete backing plate restoration is accomplished. The newcast iron drums with molded shoes arced to the drums are key as well.

The adjustment proper adjustment process is in the service bulletins and is accomplished first with the brake wedges with the rods disconnected adjusting each individual wheel and then a 4 wheel brake rod adjustment following. Once done properly with proper restoration and adjustment they can screech to a stop.
Please please do not take these YouTube videos as the way to do it.
Following proper rebuilding and a proper 4 wheel brake adjustment , The wedges are adjusted after the comprehensive is done and under a service premise which is usually to just take up normal wear a click or two .

The brake system isn’t overly complex but then it is the most labor intensive mechanical thing to rebuild and is a process to do it right just like doing an engine.
If you really want an excellent video find a copy of “how to stop on a dime” by Lloyd Kerr back from he 80’s. It shows proper restoration very well.
Larry shepard

[daren007]

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Rough-n-up glazed linings. A pipe dream at best.

[Will N]

How much slop and play do you have in your system? Are the bushings and clevis pins tight? The standard approach for adjusting the brake rods assumes that the system is nice and tight. That's where you use a tool to set the brake pedal at 1, then 2 then 3 inches of travel, and you should see slight wheel drag, then heavy drag, then locked wheels, respectively. But if you have significant slop in the system, this approach won't work well, as the first inch or more of brake pedal travel may just be taking the slack out of the system.



If you do have significant slop, try a different way of setting the rod lengths. First remove all the brake drums so you can see the action at the brake shoes. Remove each brake rod and adjust the length by turning the clevis so that when you pull on the rod to line up the holes in the rod and the lever to insert the pin, it is just before you begin to see some slight expansion of the brake shoes. In other words, shorten the rod to take all the slack out of the brake system for each wheel such that the first movement of the brake cross shaft lever results in actual movement of the shoes. If you can't shorten the rods enough to do that, well, you have way too much slack and you need a major rebuild. Once you have the rods set, install the drums and adjust the adjusting wedges so each wheel has just a little drag.

[sam heller]

Is there a discussion page for converting to hydraulic brakes on 1929 pickup truck?
Sam Heller

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by sam heller

Is there a discussion page for converting to hydraulic brakes on 1929 pickup truck?
Sam Heller

Have you done a search?
https://lainefamily.com/ModelAFiles/...akeUpgrade.htm
https://www.bolingbrothers.com/model...ke-conversion/
https://1929modelaford.blogspot.com/...-to-model.html

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by sam heller

Is there a discussion page for converting to hydraulic brakes on 1929 pickup truck?
Sam Heller

Before you get involved converting to hydraulics, do a complete investigation.


Getting the mechanical brakes PROPERLY restored will result in very good brakes for your Model A and you do not have the issues that come with hydraulic brakes.


Good quality cast iron drums and correct soft original type woven linings are available.


One of the major problems with either mechanical and hydraulic brakes is that most people use the currently available molded lining which is hard as a rock and not the correct softer woven lining.


Also, almost all of the original Model A drums are stamped steel and have been turned oversize and are thin and unusable.


Again, properly restore your mechanical brakes and you will be surprised how good they can be.


My experience and my opinion.


Chris W.

[Pmsqrd]

I second Chris’s comment. All three of my cars have mechanical brake. All three lock. All three have cast iron drums and the soft bonded linings Randy Gross sells. I recently out broke an hydraulic converted A in a club seminar test. The owner could not believe it. The overhaul on the last car my buddy and I did cost about $800.00 for parts including drums, shoes, arcing, and new front bearing sets. I think safety and car enjoyment is worth the expense.”

[Bill G]

It seems to me that the brake shoes and the drums are a common denominator between hydraulic and mechanical. It also seems to me that those two things are what does the stopping of the car.

The mechanical linkage versus the hydraulic tubes, hoses, master and brake cylinders are just the delivery system. Properly adjusted, the mechanical brakes can be just as even as hydraulic.

Granted, hydraulic brakes put pressure to each brake cylinder equally, and therefore require less adjusting and maintenance, but.....

Do you really gain that much or anything in stopping ability by going to juice? The only thing I can think of is that if you go to 39 juice brakes, they were probably made for V-8's and were maybe better in that regard. Which brings up another question. If you're going to go to all the trouble to change over, wouldn't it be even better to go with disk brakes?

[old31]

Originally Posted by sam heller

Is there a discussion page for converting to hydraulic brakes on 1929 pickup truck?
Sam Heller

Why would you ever want to go with juice? The A brakes are much safer. If that master cylinder goes out, or a line brakes what do you have, no brakes.

Do you really want to have to bleed the brakes all the time?

I am speaking from experience, and have used and installed both on my A's. A properly setup mechanical A is as good as any hydraulic system.

The resale value is not as good with a juice system.

[1931 flamingo]

old31.....................to each his own.


Dual chamber MCyl's available and after initial bleed and adj you're done. JMO
Paul in CT

[Jack Shaft]

The brake stick adjusting method assumes you have no play in actuation.Most cars have slack in the system rendering the brake stick method moot.I remove the pin from the arm at the rear brakes and gently push the arm forward till I feel it stop..then I shorten the brake rod clevis so the pin just slides in.On the fronts the 15 degree angle on the brake arm is critical for maximum leverage so a pill is used under the brake pin to remove play.Once all play is out of actuation take a 1/2 wrench and test drive the car,adjust brakes so the rear wheels skid on hard application evenly.the fronts should pull you down but not skid.Hydraulic brakes are not superior to correctly maintained mechanical brakes the only difference is in maintenance,the hydraulics requireless,they insure equal application force regardless of wear.Original steel drums are adequate if in spec,shoe condition and composition are important to a degree..so 800 dollars on fancy parts isnt necessary,proper maintenance and adjustment is.

"All steel from the pedal to the wheel"

[Big hammer]

Is it legal to convert mechanical brakes to hydraulic brakes? Any attorney's out there?

[1931 flamingo]

Since 1939 when Ford went to hydraulic brakes there have probably been many thousands of Model A's and 1932 to 1938 Fords converted. No attorneys needed.
Paul in CT

[Jim Brierley]

In spite of all the negative comments above, hydraulics are the way to go for a driver. 1939-48 brakes are easy to install on a Model A, were designed for a heavier car, are larger in drum diameter and shoe width, include cast iron drums, etc. Once installed they are trouble and maintenance free. Constant bleeding ... not at all. If DOT-5 fluid (silicone) fluid is used the cylinders will last forever, it rejects moisture, so no rust. Cling's sells a kit that fits perfectly and makes installation a snap. If you value your life, install good brakes. Disc brakes may be better as they cool better, but are definitely not needed. Do modern cars suffer failures? NO!

[Jack Shaft]

Provided all the double flares are done correctly..and the tubes and hoses are routed right..and you use a dual circuit system..

[CarlG]

Jim,
Is there someone out there making a kit to install disk brakes on a Model A?