Help, Rear Brake Drum Removal

[NormC]

I am in need of some assistance with the removal of the rear brake drums on my 36 Pickup. I am unable to remove the drums. I have removed the axel nut and washer. Question, Do I need to remove the keyed washer that is inside of the drum to remove the drum? I’m not sure how this washer is installed, from the outside or from the back of the drum. Attached is a picture of the removal tool I am using. I have tried all of the “Tricks of the Trade” that have been offered by the “Barners”, heat, loosen nut and driving. Any suggestions? Thanks, Norm

[Mike in AZ]

any movement at all??.....nut still on end of axle shaft to protect the threads??...big hammer applied with gusto to plate over end of axle shaft???....Mike

[V12Bill]

I had a similar problem with my Lincoln about a year ago. I have a hub removal tool about the same as yours and also a 3 legged puller. Neither puller would budge the hub. I applied heat, a big hammer, a bigger hammer. and a lot of swearing. Finally I installed the puller that you are using and left the nut on, but unscrewed a couple of threads and drove the car around the block. As I started my second time around the block , I heard a pop and knew that I had accomplished what I set out to do.

I don't know why the drum was so hard to get off, as I had had it off just a year before. An associate of mine who had the same problem got his off by cutting the hub of the drum in the area of the keyway.

[NormC]

I have been apprehensive with hitting the axel, my luck I will break the axel. I have reinstalled the axel nut to protect the axel threads. Is it safe to “whale” away against the axel with this removal tool installed? Thanks, Norm

[Karl Wolf]

I have the Winfield reproduction of the original Ford tool. It's not cheap, until you ruin an axel... Then, it's a good deal.
I've used heat with it, put as much tension on it as I can. Then, hit the puller dead on with a sharp rap with a medium hammer...
There might be someone nearer to you that would loan one...
Karl

[johnny]

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I suggest jacking the other wheel of the floor and then thump the end of the puller

[NormC]

Is this the one? KR Wilson reproduction

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/57

Thanks, Norm

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by NormC

Is this the one? KR Wilson reproduction

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/57

Thanks, Norm

yup! I got the same puller, it is made by winfieald tool works in new York. I have used it on my 36 pickup and my model A. I would be afraid to hit the Axle with a hammer. the axles don't move, you could brake something or mess up the threads on the axle. replacing one is not fun.

[RKS.PA]

Norm, I had the same problem before I got the KR Wilson puller. I tried the three finger large puller to no avail....and risked bending the drum, but didn't. I see you mentioned you loosen the axel nut and drove it. I did that and made a series of very hard right and left turns.....maybe three to five minutes of driving in first gear. Brought it back to the garage and bingo...off came the hub. Could have just been luck, but it worked. Wish I lived closer, I'd loan you my puller and help you.

Dick.

[Terry,OH]

Have you removed the brake clevis pin allowing the shoes to collapse in the drum? If the shoes drag in the drum you will not get the drum off. You may have to adjust the top square adjuster turning it out to relax the shoes even more. Is the hand brake Off?

[ford3]

before you start to pull drum, take two #3 or #4 hammers, one as a back up, put one on one side of the snout and smack the other side of snout, do that all the way around the drum, doing that distorts the snout on the drum a thousand of an inch or so thus breaking the tension and rust between the axle and drum, it might take a few times but it has always worked for me on a real stubborn and frozen drum to axle

[russcc]

This topic was covered from A to Z on flatheadv8.org under "32 -48 brake adjustment" page 5..

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by russcc

This topic was covered from A to Z on flatheadv8.org under "32 -48 brake adjustment" page 5..

What dose that mean? if guys don't ask questions we will not have a FordBarn. if you don't like a thread don't open it up

[Andy]

I am not a big fan of wacking away on the end of the axle with big hammers. The only thing retestraining the movement and what takes the entire blow is the carrier bearing on the other side of the carrier. Visualize the blow without the axle bell. The axle bell does nothing to push the hub off as the hub just floats on the axle stub.
I can rethread the mashed axle end but you are on your on with the damaged carrier bearings.
There was a great thread on the HAMB about a home made puller. It was truly
exceptional. I would try to make or borrow one.

[ThomasN]

Have you collapsed the shoe adjustments?

[ford3]

im with you Brendan, the man may be new at this stuff and hasnt figured all the in and outs of this site, just answer the question
or keep your fingers off the key board

[Mike B]

On my '42, I used my 3 jaw puller...used my impact gun to put a lot of tension on it, then maybe 7-10 minutes of constant heat with my torch...I had a smallish welding tip on it at the time...I heated from where your tool grabs the drum and a bit forward...concentrating the heat closer to the inside...i/e away from the axle.

My nephew was watching me...when it "popped", he jumped back 3 feet!

[Mart]

When dealing with pulling normal, ie non ford or ford front drums, making sure the shoes are returned is an issue, but not an issue until the drum is partially withdrawn and starts binding up on the unworn area at the mouth of the drum.

When people ask about ford rear drums and hubs, they are asking about breaking the taper. That is the problem, getting that initial pop to bust the taper loose.

Any advice about making sure the shoes are retracted could be misleading to a novice. Once the taper is broken then the drum becomes like any other and having the shoes retracted becomes an issue only if it gets bound up when part way off.

The shoes could be locked solid against the drum and they would still give enough to allow the taper to be broken.

Purchase of a good quality puller should be first thing on the list when you get your first early Ford.

Mart.

[RKS.PA]

Couldn't agree more with Mart. At first I thought the price of the KR Wilson puller was way too much to spend. That was about 10 years ago. In hindsight, it's one of the best old Ford tool investments I ever made!!! If you want a cost/benefit analysis, consider the cost of damaged hard to replace parts!!

Dick.

[NormC]

Thanks to all for your input. As usual, you all gave useful information. I searched the data base and tried all of those hints before this post. I wasn’t so sure if I was missing something. It is apparent that I need to purchase the KR Wilson style removal tool. Well I guess that I will have to bite the bullet and get one on order. As soon as time permits, I will make another attempt to get these drums off. Thanks again for the useful and entertaining comments, Norm.

[sonny]

I worked for hours on my 32 bb including heat. What worked for me was to install the puller and sprayed CRC where ever I could around the axle and hub, I suppose most any penetrant would work. Left it in the air with the puller as tight as I could safely make it, then went to bed. Next more penetrant and more ass on the puller. Next day went out and just barely tapped the puller and bang. Took a couple days, but nothing was damaged.

[NormC]

Originally Posted by sonny

I worked for hours on my 32 bb including heat. What worked for me was to install the puller and sprayed CRC where ever I could around the axle and hub, I suppose most any penetrant would work. Left it in the air with the puller as tight as I could safely make it, then went to bed. Next more penetrant and more ass on the puller. Next day went out and just barely tapped the puller and bang. Took a couple days, but nothing was damaged.

Sonny,

This is the direction I am going to try until I can get the KR Wilson style puller. I plan on re-clocking the current puller I have. I'm not sure if this puller is placing equal pressure.

Thanks,Norm

[JM 35 Sedan]

Here is an old post on this subject. Not sure if you have already seen this or not. I posted pictures of a puller I made from scrap steel I already had in my shop. Looks crude, not real pretty, but works great and the price was right. Has never failed to remove an early Ford rear drum for me.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...um+hub+pullers

PS...that 3/4" electric impact wrench is used to pull the really tight ones.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by johnny

I suggest jacking the other wheel of the floor and then thump the end of the puller

There's merit to this suggestion as well...and one I forgot about.

I have a '32 Dodge PU with tapered axles as well, the book for it talked about a "filled nut" so to speak that you would screw on and bottom tightly to the axle shaft and give it a solid rap with a sledge hammer...with opposite side in the air.

[moldybrain38]

For my '38 Pickup I loaned a slide hammer hub puller from O'Reilly Auto Parts - worked great and No Charge!

[NormC]

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Well I ordered the KR Wilson reproduction from Winfield. Wow, $$$$$, but from the comments so far, I trust it will be worth it!

[woodypecker]

I have used both the wilson puller and the one you have and I like the one you have better. Keep the outer bar perpendicular to the axle. Keep the nut on the axle. Tighten it up and let it set overnight and resnug bolts in the morning. Stand with your rear against the fender pushing back and give a sharp rap with your medium hammer on the flat bar. If it does not come loose put penetrating oil on and try again in the next morning.

[sonny]

Just wondering how you made out.

[NormC]

I destroyed the puller that I was using in my first post. I bent the retaining ring that the halves bolt to.

I am waiting on the KR Wilson style puller that I have ordered. I hope that this puller will do the job.

[Bruce Lancaster]

"it talked about a "filled nut"...commonly called a "Knocker", Ford 5/8 ones are available from all the repro places. I'm scared of them...but many use them successfully.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

"it talked about a "filled nut"...commonly called a "Knocker", Ford 5/8 ones are available from all the repro places. I'm scared of them...but many use them successfully.

That's right "knocker" was the word I was looking for.

[Rich Overton]

Van Pelt Sales (on here the Ford Barn)rents the KR puller. I rented mine from them a few months ago. Worth the price!!

Of course if you plan on removing your drums on a regular basis, I guess it's worth purchasing one.

Rich O.

[NormC]

I received my new KR Wilson style rear hub puller from Winfield Tooling. Installed the tool on the left hand hub and it worked as advertised, the hub popped right off. Now the right hand hub is a different story. This hub is still stuck.

I cut off a plastic bottle top that was coned shape to soak the axel with penetrating oil. I let this sit overnight and tried to remove the hub this morning. No luck. I added heat to the hub, and still no luck. I used an impact to install the hub remover and have used a hammer on the tool bolt to shock the press fit. IT IS STUCK!!!

I have reinstalled the bottle cap with penetrating oil and will let this soak until the weekend and will try it again.

[Mart]

I can't add anything, but at least one of them is off. A previous poster said to leave the puller on with pressure on. Be patient, it will come off. That is tighter than any I have encountered, but I think you will need some sort of bar attached to the wheel studs to stop the hub from turning, and keep torquing that puller up. Leave for a while and keep going back and tighten it a bit more. Eventually it will bust the taper loose.

If the car is drivable (with care, obviously) it may be possible to install a thin nut under the puller axle protector and drive the car with the puller attached (I don't know if that would practical in your location) some hard cornering towards the side opposite the stuck hub might be enough to get it free. Obviously, other than the cornering, the car must be driven gently, as once it comes free, you will be driving on the key. If does break free, you could remove the puller and retorque the hub to a low figure just to get home. Busting it loose the second time from the lower torque figure will be easy by comparison.

I've never done the above, I'm just thinking out loud what would I try if it were me.

The hub will make a loud bang when it does come off so you will know when it has happened.

Mart.

[sonny]

Like I mentioned before, just be patient. Try to get as much penetrant as possible and keep tightening the puller. It might take several days but if your there when it pops it will probably scare the hell out of you. My 32bb sounded like a shot gun blast. Good luck.

[Mike B]

I can't see penetrating oil/lube...helping much on a tapered press fit.

Question..when you say "heated it up"...with what did you heat it with, and for how long?

I/e a propane bottle torch isn't going to do it (IMO), you need to get an O/A and put the fear of ....in it.

You need to concentrate the heat around the center of the drum...that's where the thickest material is at...and you need to constantly be rolling the heat all over that area, not just in one or two spots.

Trust be, unless the pin sheared and the axle/drume is galled together...heat (correct heat) will work

[41ford1]

Originally Posted by NormC

I am in need of some assistance with the removal of the rear brake drums on my 36 Pickup. I am unable to remove the drums. I have removed the axel nut and washer. Question, Do I need to remove the keyed washer that is inside of the drum to remove the drum? I’m not sure how this washer is installed, from the outside or from the back of the drum. Attached is a picture of the removal tool I am using. I have tried all of the “Tricks of the Trade” that have been offered by the “Barners”, heat, loosen nut and driving. Any suggestions? Thanks, Norm

The puller I use is the same as the one you pictured. The way I get the stubborn ones off is to tighten the pulling bolts as much as possible. Keep the side you are trying to remove on the ground. Jack up the other side. Hit the cross bar of the puller with a heavy hammer. I've been able to remove them every time this way.

[Terry,OH]

Under the heavy mounting nut and washer is a fiber packing washer that gets crushed into the end of the axle taper and brake drum hub. This packing prevents water from entering the end of the axle. use a pick and remove the washers before soaking . You should be able to see the end of the square recess for the axle key way both on the drum and the axle. Are they both aligned? Has the axle key broken and the drum turned on the axle taper?

[billwill]

Originally Posted by NormC

I am in need of some assistance with the removal of the rear brake drums on my 36 Pickup. I am unable to remove the drums. I have removed the axel nut and washer. Question, Do I need to remove the keyed washer that is inside of the drum to remove the drum? I’m not sure how this washer is installed, from the outside or from the back of the drum. Attached is a picture of the removal tool I am using. I have tried all of the “Tricks of the Trade” that have been offered by the “Barners”, heat, loosen nut and driving. Any suggestions? Thanks, Norm

Did you back the barke shoes

[FlatheadTed]

The wheel needs to be on it to get the puller tight enough ,

[NormC]

Success Finally!

This is how I got the drum off. I reinstalled the tire and lowered the truck. Installed the KR Wilson style hub remover and tighten the crap out of it. I used a ½ inch drive 2 foot long breaker bar with a 3 foot cheater bar. Sweet Success! Time for a Beer!

Upon inspection of the axel, I found a quarter size area of corrosion in the middle of the taper of the axel. It appears that this was the problem. The remaining areas were wet from the penetrating oil that was applied.

Thanks for all of the help!

[FL&WVMIKE]

You didn't, out of habit, set your emergency brake, did you ?
MIKE

[Mart]

Well done, Norm. Persistence paid off.

Mart.