Pipe Dream or a New Way to Clean Radiators?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Ultrasonic cleaners can be used for jewelry and small parts, but do they make one large enough to clean a radiator? Or is it even feasible?

Seems like it might be a good way to remove hard water deposits or clear plugged tubes.

[Keith True]

There is one made for that.I was working on an old Chevy truck in the late 90's,and the V cell radiator just wouldn't pass enough through it.The radiator guy I use told me about another shop that had bought that machine.I went there,he did the radiator and it worked out well.He also told me that I was probably going to be the last customer to get a radiator done by that machine.He had gotten a lot of interest in that kind of work so he went out on a limb and bought(or lease-purchased)the machine.The machine was around $100,000 at the time,and the old car and tractor guys kind of melted away.He also said that for a tube-type radiator it was faster to unsolder the top and rod them out than it was to use that machine.It took about 4 hours to do my radiator,but the end result was nice.He said he was letting it go back,he was tired of making $1000 payments to take in $500.worth of work each month.My radiator guy tells me that machine is now $35,000.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Thanks Keith. I guess it might pay to call a few shops in the Twin Cities. I have a few radiators but haven't tried them to function.

Now, why is "Pipe Dream" underlined in my title?

[fastroadster]

The ultrasonic tanks used by Radiator shops are only about two inches deep. They are designed to clean the header plates (which the tanks) are soldered on. Where the tubes go into the headers is where most of you leaks are located. So in the old days we would have to heat up the headers and tubes to clean them out enough to tin down the space between the tubes and headers. Sometimes it was impossible to clean them enough to solder them. Then we would cut the top of the tube and bottom of the tube, tin down header and plug it up with the solder. Hope this makes sense. Sorry if it doesn't. Just a OL Radiatorman.............LOL

[Quigley1930]

Why would a radiator shop be able to do a recore and not be able to rod out one.

Sewall Tyler

[denis4x4]

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Having rodded a few radiators, I'm here to tell you it's labor intensive and at the going labor rate, it's going to be expensive. Too, try and find a shop that even knows what the process is!

[glenn in camino]

Originally Posted by Quigley1930

Why would a radiator shop be able to do a recore and not be able to rod out one.

Sewall Tyler

Probably an EPA rule.

[mhsprecher]

There is a shop near me in Rockville, MD that will rod your radiator. He suggested that I not do the one on my 28 because it would probably leak afterwards, given its age.

[Ed Wendell]

Originally Posted by Quigley1930

Why would a radiator shop be able to do a recore and not be able to rod out one.

Sewall Tyler

Sewall,

When you do a recore you just pull the tanks and solder them onto a new core.
When you rod a core you have to pull the top tank and run that spring steel rod thru every tube. On old cores you stand the chance of running the rod thru the side of the tube (I did that a few times in my dad's shop, boy did he get mad). When you rod them you also stand a chance of corrosion breaking loose and end up with a bunch of pin holes to repair.

Ed

[fastroadster]

The only way to rod out a radiator, is that you have to boil it out first in a boil out tank (outlawed by EPA) in caustic soda chemical. This loosen's anything in tubes. Then you usually pull the top tank and rod out the radiator. You can't force the rod down any of the tubes or they would split. When brand new tubes were only 5/32 thick. So after lots of miles and age they get quite thin. Then you solder the tank back on and repair any leaks. Dry radiator and paint.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Quigley1930

Why would a radiator shop be able to do a recore and not be able to rod out one.

Sewall Tyler

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

Probably an EPA rule.

I think it has to do with "liability" What I mean is the tubes could be real thin and a puncture a real possibility. Do you think a person, even after being warned of the possibility would be happy if it happened. Would the customer still pay for the labor the shop put in before the puncture happened? How about bad mouthing the shop on the web afterwards?

Hate to say it but I agree with with skipping the rodding and just do a re-core if I were a shop owner.

[Mike V. Florida]

Here is what I would do,

Take a piece of plywood and cutout the trace the top and bottom tank outline of the radiator.

I would place the radiator on another piece of plywood and make a jig using the pieces that I cut out.

Now using a propane torch remove the tanks. Using "music" wire rod from the hobby shop push the rod down the tubes. You can start with a small dameter wire and work your way up. After getting close to the proper diameter you can use a bore cleaner for a BB gun or even a .22 and finish the job.

After cleaning use the jig your made and resolder the tanks. Go to the radiator ship and have them check/repair any leaks. Worse case if you screw up get it re-cored.

I used the jig I made to recore a radiator and it fit perfect.

http://www.hoppes.com/boresnake/the-boresnake

http://www.ksmetals.com/17.html

[fastroadster]

There was no real liability. We would try and rod out the radiator. When quoting the price I would give customer both prices. For rodding it out and recoring if it couldn't be rodded. Give them the choice. Would only recore if I really had to. Didn't want to overcharge the customer. Miss the shop..... Damn the EPA. Third generation radiatorman. And a lost craft.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by fastroadster

The only way to rod out a radiator, is that you have to boil it out first in a boil out tank (outlawed by EPA) in caustic soda chemical. This loosen's anything in tubes. Then you usually pull the top tank and rod out the radiator. You can't force the rod down any of the tubes or they would split. When brand new tubes were only 5/32 thick. So after lots of miles and age they get quite thin. Then you solder the tank back on and repair any leaks. Dry radiator and paint.

I too have heard that Sodium Hydroxide has been outlawed but I don't believe it is true. Sodium Hydroxide is still on the EPA's 'Approved Status' list at least here in Tennessee. I have actually been collecting vintage Barbee radiator repair equipment for the past year just we can repair early radiators, -simply because like you said, it is becoming a lost art.

[mshmodela]

Good idea, but would be nice if there were some type of filter the could be akin a fuel sediment bowl (visually inspected) that could trap crap. I had a 86' VW Diesel Golf that has a water separator near the fuel tank that one could visually check... (OK we know VW Fudged the emissions data as of late...)

[fastroadster]

In California its about impossible to be in Radiator business anymore. I have my whole radiator shop equipment in storage because we can't use it in this county. They even wanted me to double contain my "test tank", buffing tanks, and using flux and muriatic acid and using solder is out of the question.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by fastroadster

In California its about impossible to be in Radiator business anymore. I have my whole radiator shop equipment in storage because we can't use it in this county. They even wanted me to double contain my "test tank", buffing tanks, and using flux and muriatic acid and using solder is out of the question.

I definitely don't doubt what you are saying about California outlawing it, but based on what the used equipment is bringing nationwide, I think much of the reason for shops closing is the obscelence of old radiators and not necessarily the EPA banning the Sodium Hydroxide. You can order a new radiator online cheaper than a repair, and have the new one in less time than it takes to have the old one repaired! . Plus, the Sodium Hydroxide is still easily available to the folks 'homestead living' who make their own soap.

As you probably already know, old equipment seemingly costs more to freight than what $$ it brings these days. There are nice flow meters on eBay that have been listed for months that won't even bring $700.00. There is a nice hoist set-up on there for $300 that could be completely rebuilt for less than $200. The freight is over $500 to have shipped to me. I know of several old radiator shops within a 100 mile radius that have closed their doors and their equipment is inside rusting away likely to be sold by the estate for scrap prices. Truly an unfortunate end to an era and craftsmen such as yourself..

[fastroadster]

I knew Tom Barbee, bought a lot of equipment from him and his dad. You get what you pay for. These "New" radiators are mass produced, nobody cares about quality anymore. Something to be said about building a radiator your way by scratch. Thanks Brent appreciate guys like you. If you ever need anything, give me a shout.

Jon Haro

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Good idea, but would be nice if there were some type of filter the could be akin a fuel sediment bowl (visually inspected) that could trap crap.

Like this?? http://www.amazon.com/Scott-Drake-AC...adiator+filter

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

The freight is over $500 to have shipped to me. I know of several old radiator shops within a 100 mile radius that have closed their doors and their equipment is inside rusting away likely to be sold by the estate for scrap prices. Truly an unfortunate end to an era and craftsmen such as yourself..

Field trip with a trailer?