The Ford Barn

Yankeefn65 · 04-10-2024, 07:38 AM

I had a bad stud ( stripped ) on front and rear of my car. I was able to get front hub and a rear hub . They are not attached to the drum. Is this ok? I cannot remember if they are attached or not. The hubs came off a 28 and the studs have been properly swedged. I know I have to replace bearing for both.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 04-10-2024, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankeefn65

I had a bad stud ( stripped ) on front and rear of my car. I was able to get front hub and a rear hub . They are not attached to the drum. Is this ok? I cannot remember if they are attached or not. The hubs came off a 28 and the studs have been properly swedged. I know I have to replace bearing for both.

I am not totally understanding your question(s) but Yes, the studs need to be swaged to rivet the drum to the hub. This is also critical because the wheel is piloted off of the taper of the lug nut.

Joe K · 04-10-2024, 09:58 AM

Being yours is a '28, you may or may not have the variant "AR" wheels - which require the variant AR drums. Other parts are similar or identical.

These complicate things, at least because of the parts unavailability - i.e. not found under every hay wagon.

And many AR of the era were "converted" over to the later wheels. The only way I know to tell the difference positively is to measure the "rim" where the wheel inner circle meets the brake drum: AR wheels are "narrower" here. (Service Bulletins describes the difference, I can't recall offhand.)

As to construction/assembly, Brent is right. Your wheel hub, brake drum, wheel studs are assembled "as a unit," and have to be maintained that way. Later vehicles had loose "replaceable" brake drums for convenience in servicing, but the Model A is not that way and can't really be made to be that way.

Re-swedging drums is not an idle task. Perhaps better described as "daunting." Generally it takes special tooling and a pretty good size press to do it right. Most restorers who use the later version brake drums/wheels opt to install cast iron brake drums from Mel Gross successors, and buy them already installed/centered on the wheel hub. The incremental additional cost of new hubs is not large compared to the ease and assured centering of the brake drums.

When the Model A was new, the pressed steel drums worked - but not great. Traffic and use were less demanding in that era, and even Ford eventually woke up to the advantages of cast iron brake drums for the Model A. (Late 1931)

Today's well worn original pressed steel brake drums are generally "an accident waiting to happen" and many try to get past the issue by converting to hydraulic brakes thinking the mechanical brakes are the problem. Actually along with hydraulic brakes, Ford had converted production to cast iron brake drums, and its not the hydraulics that do the advantage in a conversion on the Model A.

I'm not sure that Mel Gross & Co. can provide AR style drums, so this may be your time for a conversion to the later drums/wheels if you want to have the safest brakes possible.

If you're going to put an AR car on the museum floor, you may want to retain the earlier drums/wheels - yunno - "for reference."

Joe K

Yankeefn65 · 04-10-2024, 11:05 AM

The studs are swedged to the HUB already. I have been searching around and found a few articles and videos on hubs not being attached to drums. seems as if its actually a good idea . The Studs have been swedged correctly with that slice on the head of the swedge so it can lay perfect to the HUB, I am going to clean up the drums and replace the bearings . Everything seems to be fitting perfect
The drums I have fits perfect and there's no play.

nkaminar · 04-10-2024, 11:47 AM

The Service Bulletins from Ford show the difference between the early 28 hubs and wheels and the later ones. Page 328. The Service Bulletins can be bought at any of the usual suppliers.

Charlie Stephens · 04-10-2024, 11:51 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Be sure to check if the drums are straight because if an amateur removed them they probably used a big hammer.

Charlie Stephens

jeepguy1948 · 04-10-2024, 02:38 PM

Thanks Charlie

Joe K · 04-11-2024, 07:27 AM

Part of the specialized tooling used to remove brake drums/studs are a "backing anvil" which supports the hub edge and the drum in turn. Others will use a deep hollow mill to remove at least part of the upset retaining the drum and lessen the force necessary to drive the stud out of the assembly.

As I say "can be daunting." Having hammered the studs out according to Rick Freeman's instructions back in 1971, and found the hub edge "wavy" afterwards.

If your drums are loose and appear to have been made this way by a former owner, you must trust his ability or the result implicitly.

A fortunate side effect of "not rocket science." Many things work - even the unexpected.

Joe K

04-10-2024, 07:38 AM	#1
Yankeefn65 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: DeepCreek VA Posts: 3	Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A I had a bad stud ( stripped ) on front and rear of my car. I was able to get front hub and a rear hub . They are not attached to the drum. Is this ok? I cannot remember if they are attached or not. The hubs came off a 28 and the studs have been properly swedged. I know I have to replace bearing for both.

04-10-2024, 09:58 AM	#3
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A Being yours is a '28, you may or may not have the variant "AR" wheels - which require the variant AR drums. Other parts are similar or identical. These complicate things, at least because of the parts unavailability - i.e. not found under every hay wagon. And many AR of the era were "converted" over to the later wheels. The only way I know to tell the difference positively is to measure the "rim" where the wheel inner circle meets the brake drum: AR wheels are "narrower" here. (Service Bulletins describes the difference, I can't recall offhand.) As to construction/assembly, Brent is right. Your wheel hub, brake drum, wheel studs are assembled "as a unit," and have to be maintained that way. Later vehicles had loose "replaceable" brake drums for convenience in servicing, but the Model A is not that way and can't really be made to be that way. Re-swedging drums is not an idle task. Perhaps better described as "daunting." Generally it takes special tooling and a pretty good size press to do it right. Most restorers who use the later version brake drums/wheels opt to install cast iron brake drums from Mel Gross successors, and buy them already installed/centered on the wheel hub. The incremental additional cost of new hubs is not large compared to the ease and assured centering of the brake drums. When the Model A was new, the pressed steel drums worked - but not great. Traffic and use were less demanding in that era, and even Ford eventually woke up to the advantages of cast iron brake drums for the Model A. (Late 1931) Today's well worn original pressed steel brake drums are generally "an accident waiting to happen" and many try to get past the issue by converting to hydraulic brakes thinking the mechanical brakes are the problem. Actually along with hydraulic brakes, Ford had converted production to cast iron brake drums, and its not the hydraulics that do the advantage in a conversion on the Model A. I'm not sure that Mel Gross & Co. can provide AR style drums, so this may be your time for a conversion to the later drums/wheels if you want to have the safest brakes possible. If you're going to put an AR car on the museum floor, you may want to retain the earlier drums/wheels - yunno - "for reference." Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

04-10-2024, 11:05 AM	#4
Yankeefn65 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: DeepCreek VA Posts: 3	Re: Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A The studs are swedged to the HUB already. I have been searching around and found a few articles and videos on hubs not being attached to drums. seems as if its actually a good idea . The Studs have been swedged correctly with that slice on the head of the swedge so it can lay perfect to the HUB, I am going to clean up the drums and replace the bearings . Everything seems to be fitting perfect The drums I have fits perfect and there's no play. Last edited by Yankeefn65; 04-10-2024 at 11:11 AM.

04-10-2024, 11:47 AM	#5
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,910	Re: Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A The Service Bulletins from Ford show the difference between the early 28 hubs and wheels and the later ones. Page 328. The Service Bulletins can be bought at any of the usual suppliers. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

04-10-2024, 11:51 AM	#6
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,036	Re: Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Be sure to check if the drums are straight because if an amateur removed them they probably used a big hammer. Charlie Stephens

04-10-2024, 02:38 PM	#7
jeepguy1948 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 722	Re: Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A Thanks Charlie

04-11-2024, 07:27 AM	#8
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Front and Rear Hubs 28 Model A Part of the specialized tooling used to remove brake drums/studs are a "backing anvil" which supports the hub edge and the drum in turn. Others will use a deep hollow mill to remove at least part of the upset retaining the drum and lessen the force necessary to drive the stud out of the assembly. As I say "can be daunting." Having hammered the studs out according to Rick Freeman's instructions back in 1971, and found the hub edge "wavy" afterwards. If your drums are loose and appear to have been made this way by a former owner, you must trust his ability or the result implicitly. A fortunate side effect of "not rocket science." Many things work - even the unexpected. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.