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Old 10-11-2016, 09:05 PM   #1
SeaSlugs
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Default Leave engine/radiator empty?

So heres a question and situation:

Situation is I got my AA frame running beautifully (video to come) since I replaced all bearings in the trans (no more thudding/clacking) and cleaned up the teeth. No weird noises and smooth as warm butter driving it.
I also while it was down I installed an oversize throttle shaft due to some wear on mine and couldnt get it to idle the nice model a pakita packita packita and flushed the block and radiator out so it doesnt overheat anymore.

Now I start on the body work and finding some ever critical parts so the frame sits. I just put pure water in it for testing purposes (much easier to dump out if I had another problem).

I plan to drain all water out so no fear of freezing.

But here is the question:

Should I leave it bone empty till next spring?

OR

Should I fill with 50/50 antifreeze?


I have been advised to fill with antifreeze (green stuff) even if the engine just sits - cant rust that way.

Also a side question : any tricks to get the dang ford repo hose clamps to seal?
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

50/50 to prevent rust
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSlugs View Post
Also a side question : any tricks to get the dang ford repo hose clamps to seal?
Yes. Replace them with modern hose clamps. After a while, the hoses will fit so tight, you won't even need hose clamps anymore. At which time, you can reinstall the repro hose clamps.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

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50/50 to prevent rust
X 2 for sure ! Wayne
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

If you run it with plain water add a can of water pump lubricant to the water to stop corrosion and lube the water pump. I would use antifreeze and not drain it at all. If you use distilled water in place of tap or well water your should be able to leave the antifreeze in for a couple of years.
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

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Hi Sea,

For quite a few years Prestone Antifreeze Concentrate has advertised recommending changing their Prestone antifreeze every 5 years ...... or every 150,000 miles ...... nothing like a win-win protection.

For years, distilled or rain water was recommended for all vintage radiators because neither will leave harmful mineral deposits therin.

Also, often heard people who only drink pure rain water have far less possibilities of developing kidney stones ..... but, most people never listen ..... they pour well water in their Model A radiators and wonder why their Model A cooling systems develop mineral type kidney stones. LOL

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 10-11-2016 at 11:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

yea we live about 1-2 blocks from the towns water treatment plant so our water doesnt need a water softner.

Alright sounds like 50/50 it is. Farm store has the green stuff concentrate on sale for $9 a gallon.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

make sure you are buying full anti-freeze not the 50/50 mix.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Agree .... buying 50/50 mix antifreeze makes about as much sense as going to a local expensive bar to buy mixed drinks to bring to a family Christmas Party.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Re-torque the head first.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Why do people use a premixed 50/50? Isn't cheaper to purchase straight antifreeze and mix it with distilled water yourself
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Hi John,

Maybe same reason so many buy already prepared quickly fixed canned biscuits.

Some have lead in their drinking water ...... some slowly develop lead elsewhere.

Looks like at the rate we appear to be headed, maybe "everybody" will soon be demanding battery operated shopping carts at Wal-Mart.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

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Originally Posted by JOHN CT View Post
Why do people use a premixed 50/50? Isn't cheaper to purchase straight antifreeze and mix it with distilled water yourself
Convenience.

By the time you buy straight antifreeze, and then buy distilled water, the difference in price isn't all that great. YMMV
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Buy 2 Gallons of anti-freeze concentrate and 2 Gallons of distilled water. Put one gallon of antifreeze, then one gallon of water in the radiator. Now add about half of your second gallon of antifreeze to your radiator. Then top off your radiator with second gallon of water. Now fill the half empty jug of antifreeze with the remaining water. Run the engine to mix it up. While the engine's warming up, recycle the three extra plastic bottles and put your "premixed" gallon aside for topping off the system as needed. I also write the date I mixed it on the jug, I don't know if it goes bad but after a year I figure it's toast. On hot days I top the radiator for good measure, the extra gallon lasts me about a year. Also that extra gallon has saved friends and strangers alike over the years. I keep it in the trunk of my car.
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Yea I can see myself using full strength at the shop with distilled water. Lol... NOT....

50/50 in 55 gal drums is CHEEP...
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Old 10-12-2016, 02:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

What is the cooling system capacity for an A? i was going to buy several gallons of it to do my modern anyways.
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Old 10-12-2016, 03:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Full capacity is 3 gallons, so you should use more than 2 1/2 gallons. I usually use a gallon of water and 1 1/2 gallons of antifreeze.
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Old 10-12-2016, 03:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

I find that moonshine gets me through the winter....and the car too.. ;-)
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Hey Brother I already answered this for you.
Good Luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSlugs View Post
What is the cooling system capacity for an A? i was going to buy several gallons of it to do my modern anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
Buy 2 Gallons of anti-freeze concentrate and 2 Gallons of distilled water. Put one gallon of antifreeze, then one gallon of water in the radiator. Now add about half of your second gallon of antifreeze to your radiator. Then top off your radiator with second gallon of water. Now fill the half empty jug of antifreeze with the remaining water. Run the engine to mix it up. While the engine's warming up, recycle the three extra plastic bottles and put your "premixed" gallon aside for topping off the system as needed. I also write the date I mixed it on the jug, I don't know if it goes bad but after a year I figure it's toast. On hot days I top the radiator for good measure, the extra gallon lasts me about a year. Also that extra gallon has saved friends and strangers alike over the years. I keep it in the trunk of my car.
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSlugs View Post
So heres a question and situation:

Situation is I got my AA frame running beautifully (video to come) since I replaced all bearings in the trans (no more thudding/clacking) and cleaned up the teeth. No weird noises and smooth as warm butter driving it.
I also while it was down I installed an oversize throttle shaft due to some wear on mine and couldnt get it to idle the nice model a pakita packita packita and flushed the block and radiator out so it doesnt overheat anymore.

Now I start on the body work and finding some ever critical parts so the frame sits. I just put pure water in it for testing purposes (much easier to dump out if I had another problem).

I plan to drain all water out so no fear of freezing.

But here is the question:

Should I leave it bone empty till next spring?

OR

Should I fill with 50/50 antifreeze?


I have been advised to fill with antifreeze (green stuff) even if the engine just sits - cant rust that way.

Also a side question : any tricks to get the dang ford repo hose clamps to seal?
My take on it... It doesn't matter if it is only over the winter. Many drain it , thinking it is only for 3 months but, do not get back to it for years... Rust is a problem. The other side... People put antifreeze in it and ignore it, eventually it may leak into the engine and ruin the Babbitt. Just my opinion, diving it prevents many problems.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSlugs View Post
What is the cooling system capacity for an A? i was going to buy several gallons of it to do my modern anyways.
Please check your MODERN Car's antifreeze requirement.
There appears to be a real difference among red, yellow, green, etc. anti freeze formulas regarding engine alloys.

For my "A," I use Sierra in 50:50 mix. All knowledgeable boaters use antifreeze when storing, rather than draining.
Sierra is supposed to be non-toxic if leaked and minimizes foaming.
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Old 10-12-2016, 06:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlg View Post
convenience.

By the time you buy straight antifreeze, and then buy distilled water, the difference in price isn't all that great. Ymmv

+1!
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Just to expand on this a little, If you have a de-humidifier, save the water. The water is condensate pulled from the air, essentially it's distilled water, great for batteries, cooling systems etc.
Terry




Quote:
Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin View Post
Hi Sea,

For quite a few years Prestone Antifreeze Concentrate has advertised recommending changing their Prestone antifreeze every 5 years ...... or every 150,000 miles ...... nothing like a win-win protection.

For years, distilled or rain water was recommended for all vintage radiators because neither will leave harmful mineral deposits therin.

Also, often heard people who only drink pure rain water have far less possibilities of developing kidney stones ..... but, most people never listen ..... they pour well water in their Model A radiators and wonder why their Model A cooling systems develop mineral type kidney stones. LOL
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Our 1920's & 1930's adult Conservative Americans knew how to survive:

A clean gutter, a clean downspout, any clean container ..... all adjacent to any clean roof.

Just look up to Heaven, have a little patience, and wait .... with harmless "mineral free" water, God will take good care of your precious kidneys and your original Model A radiator at the same time for "Free".

Oh Ye Modern Uninformed Children of Little Faith.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 10-12-2016 at 11:39 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-13-2016, 10:51 AM   #25
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

My 1919 Model T sat for 45 years with 50-50 in the radiator and motor.
I just drained and flushed it then refilled it with 50% tap water and 50% antifreeze.
There was no problem.
Unless your tap water is really bad why spend money for distilled water?
Distilled water is for batteries!

On the other hand the Model A sat for the same time period with the radiator hose disconnected.
The rodents decided that the radiator would be a good place to build a home and it took me four hours to get it clean.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

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FWIW:

With the the millions of engine overheating gripes and radiator blockage gripes on so many vintage vehicle forums, including Model A forums, Mr. Victor W. Page tried to warn Model A owners about "harmful" radiator circulating water ........ they never listened in 1931, so why try to advise them today.

He warns in detail in his Model A Restoration book on page 301 & 302, about "any" water that contacts earth dissolves minerals & contains minerals.

The radiator incrustration the millions have reported thus far. was caused by carbonate of lime & sulphate of lime, which when heated, remained in the form of a powdery deposit in the small radiator tubes.

So, in 1931 he recommends distilled water or rain water.

The Model A radiator companies today understand Model A owners still think water from treatment plants or spring water from artesian wells is either distilled or was evaporated ........... fell from the sky .......... and never touched soil.

Why be concerned? ....... fill up and do like everybody else ..... & order your new radiator in a few years ......
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brierley View Post
Re-torque the head first.
What is your rationale ? Wayne
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Leave engine/radiator empty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN CT View Post
Why do people use a premixed 50/50? Isn't cheaper to purchase straight antifreeze and mix it with distilled water yourself
For the convenience. You could make your own ice cream and butter at .home but is it worth it ? Not in my mind, buy the 50/50 and forget the games. Wayne
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