av8 enigine placement

[28fordroadster]

I'm sure it's been discussed a hundred times. I'm looking for links to existing threads on the subject.
I am using a model a frame. an 8ba, I have choices with the body. A 30 coupe or 29 RPU. I don't have to run a hood so I can move the radiator forward. I am running a 39 top loader and have the choice of the model a rear or a 39 rear. I am willing to cut the torque tube.

I think my biggest questions are.
Are all the flatheads' lenght the same?
Do the fan choices take up more or less space?

I don't intend to run an alternator or electric fan

Thanks for your help

[cas3]

The 59a design is about an inch ana half shorter than the 8ba's, due to the crab dizzy. you can dress up the 8ba with 59a heads and dizzy to get that length. You will have to make a custom driveshaft and torque tube, no ford parts are a bolt on for that. The early style fan on the generator is the shortest/easiest I believe.

[bobH]

Regarding 'placement'... My approach (I've only done this a couple times) is to have the stock Model A rear end in place, attach a V8 trans and 59A-type block with 48-earlier water pumps, and put the front motor mounts on the frame, to match. (My simple mind.) I even used this same approach to put a 265 Chevy in a model A. Everything was made to fit, from there. (For the case of the 265, a Hurst-type front engine mount, sitting on flathead Ford biscuts, bolts right in. I also used this approach putting a 265 in a 47 Ford. Totally all bolt-in, no cutting, no welding, no hole-drilling.)

[cas3]

Good advice from Bob ^^^ on placement. Some folks get along fine with the A rear end, then the drive shaft and TT problem is done . The 39 rear is a little more desirable for several reasons, and the solid shaft can be shortened and used without a center bearing due to the short model A wheelbase

[30Murray]

I have a similar setup. I found the 8BA wouldn't fit between the rad and firewall so used a generator mounted fan. Also I had to recess the firewall to clear the block and fuel pump plus room to remove the right head if needed. I used a '34 rear end and shortened the torque tube about 10". The model A ttube was a little too short. I would recommend getting a copy of Vern Tardell's book which details this setup.

[Pete]

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Where you mount things is a matter of what you intend to do with the car.
No alternator or fan sort of indicates some lind of competetion.

If handling is important and with original type cross springs, the engine should be mounted as far back and high as is practical. The rest of the parts can be made to fit.
The 39 rear end is by far the better choice. Much stronger.

[Tim Ayers]

Get the book in the link below. It will walk you through every step a long the way.

I just went through this with a '28 roadster on a '32 frame. Using a single belt set up with a generator mounted fan, 59 AB style water pumps and crank pulley will give you the most room. Absolutely check clearances before final welding and you'll be fine.

https://www.verntardel.com/store/p28...Winner%21.html

[28fordroadster]

thanks for your feedback. I'll be happy to hear from more of you
Thanks again

[rotorwrench]

There is some good information on the HAMB for 8BA series engines in AV8 cars. I've seen some decent front mounted fan set ups using an offset generator. Converting to 29A or 59A series frontal equipment does help but the timing gears and cam have to be changed to get the thrust right with the earlier distributor. The block needs a little mod to use center port heads. I like the Merc pan and half bell if using an old Ford transmission.

Thankfully, a lot of stuff crosses over between the early and late flatheads.

[alchemy]

Wow, the Fordbarn is really turning into a hot rod place now!

[DavidG]

Which is not necessarily a turn for the better. What say you, Ryan?

[Ronnieroadster]

Did I miss something the post is about Ford flathead engine lengths and Ford body types. Doubt there's a mission statement that limits the applications for given posts to just original, stock and restoration?
Ronnieroadster

[28fordroadster]

It's all ford baby!
You guys have given me alot of leads and good info
Thanks

[J Franklin]

The Model A Rear end is weaker than later ones because the later ones held the pinion gear on both sides to stop deflection. Use the later axle.

[DavidG]

Actually there something of mission statement which evidently some of you have missed at the very beginning of this forum under the title "Hey Fellas.....Some Clarification" wherein the owner of this website specifically excludes hot rods and suggests those interested in them should to the HAMB website.

[alchemy]

I'm a member/user of both Fordbarn and the HAMB. I come to Fordbarn for specific topics relating to old Ford cars and parts. I don't seek or discuss hot rod specific stuff here.

I go to the HAMB for hot rodding my old Fords. I know they won't be upset if I talk about cutting something or switching parts around. I understand the purpose of each, and have really been surprised lately by the allowance of hot rod talk on Fordbarn.

I invite the OP to come over to the HAMB for his measurements. Don't take a dog to a cat show, even if they both have fur.

[bobH]

I suppose all this 'yakkin' implies we should kick off folks like Ronnieroadster, old Ron, Pete, myself, and a host of other folks. With respect David, I generally enjoy what I pick up here, even if it involves modified flatheads. I don't do hamb at all, except if there is a specific link posted here. So, I hope things remain pretty much as they are. obviously, opinion.....

[DavidG]

Not at all, but the case of 28fordroadster clearly crosses the line and moves away from the status quo.

[tubman]

Oh no! I'm gonna miss the videos that "Mart" makes.

[GB SISSON]

My stuff is so far in left field, what with the totally non ford wood wagon body on a jailbar pickup chassis, the diesel powered '47 tonner and let's not even start on the 4wd Foyota RPU. If I recall correctly all three were quite well received. I have chosen not to share my homespun jalopies on the hamb site because I feel at home here and barners seem to tolerate my antics. I don't know where else I would go. I build and paint my trucks with what I have and in such a way that they could be used as farmer's vehicles on a movie set depicting a small town in the '50s/early '60s. Think the opening scene in the movie 'Hoosiers', set in rural Indiana in 1951....

[cas3]

I like variety in my old fords. If the topic does not interest me, and there are many, I dont click on it. just that easy !

[chuck stevens]

8 BA in 31 A, generator, fan, and pullies in stock placement.

[walls]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

8 BA in 31 A, generator, fan, and pullies in stock placement.

Flipped firewall I’m guessing?

I think the key to asking Hotrod questions on this forum is to leave out the context enough that it is ambiguous. The technical aspects are still relevant.
A little discretion.

Otherwise the Hamb is better suited to most discussions concerning AV8s.
I don’t mean that’s my opinion, just that there are a good amount of people on that board with a wealth of knowledge on the topic.

[Flathead Fever]

My friend just built a '30 AV8 with a 59A. He had a book that said to use a '32 wishbone. The '32 ended up being too long. That was a misprint in the book. A '33-'34 wishbone is shorter than a '32. It you use the stock '33-'34 wishbone with your Model A front spring to locate tour K-member, a 59A engine will end up with enough clearance for a generator mounted fan and still have a little clearance at the firewall. It's like that '33'-34 wishbone was made for building an AV8. It could not have worked out any better.

You do not want an 8BA for a couple of reasons. They are longer because of the extended water pumps for the late model distributor. But also, because in 1949 Ford eliminated the toque tube and went to a modern driveshaft with parallel rear leaf springs, they eliminated the castings in the later blocks for what most people call the chatter rods. Those are engine stabilizer rods that prevent the torque tube from pushing the engine forwards under acceleration. If you use a torque tube rear end your better off with the earlier blocks so you will have stabilizer rods from the block to the K-member.

[cas3]

While I agree the 59a is a better choice, there are lots of threads here on how to fabricate mounts for the steady rods on an 8ba block. I'm a 59a kinda guy , myself

[chuck stevens]

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Originally Posted by walls

Flipped firewall I’m guessing?

I think the key to asking Hotrod questions on this forum is to leave out the context enough that it is ambiguous. The technical aspects are still relevant.
A little discretion.

Otherwise the Hamb is better suited to most discussions concerning AV8s.
I don’t mean that’s my opinion, just that there are a good amount of people on that board with a wealth of knowledge on the topic.

Firewall is a sectioned 32, with the legs trimmed, oil filter is remote mount acts as a cooler. I have both stock and hot rods, like em all.

[PeteVS]

I just can't seem to find my way onto the HAMB.

[sidevalve8ba]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

8 BA in 31 A, generator, fan, and pullies in stock placement.

Chuck, that is a rather "unique" intake manifold to say the least!

[rotorwrench]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

My friend just built a '30 AV8 with a 59A. He had a book that said to use a '32 wishbone. The '32 ended up being too long. That was a misprint in the book. A '33-'34 wishbone is shorter than a '32. It you use the stock '33-'34 wishbone with your Model A front spring to locate tour K-member, a 59A engine will end up with enough clearance for a generator mounted fan and still have a little clearance at the firewall. It's like that '33'-34 wishbone was made for building an AV8. It could not have worked out any better.

You do not want an 8BA for a couple of reasons. They are longer because of the extended water pumps for the late model distributor. But also, because in 1949 Ford eliminated the toque tube and went to a modern driveshaft with parallel rear leaf springs, they eliminated the castings in the later blocks for what most people call the chatter rods. Those are engine stabilizer rods that prevent the torque tube from pushing the engine forwards under acceleration. If you use a torque tube rear end your better off with the earlier blocks so you will have stabilizer rods from the block to the K-member.

For better information on this a person has to suffer the use of the HAMB search functions. I'm sure Ryan doesn't mind if questions come up on the Ford Barn now and then as long as folks don't try to make this into the HAMB.

Mike Bishop posted a fairly good explanation about his misprint concerning the front radius rod assembly on there but the photos were likely from Photobucket file sharing so they may be gone now. They used a 1932 part on the roadster project but printed that the 34 was used. Mike's article on the HAMB was on how to lengthen a 34 unit if you followed the Bishop/Tardel book and sourced one for a project. It is a good read.

The HAMB also has multiple ways to use the 8BA in older cars that are dimensionally challenged. I for one believe the 8BA is more functionally adaptable than the older engines and especially on the rear end for transmission adaptation. There are many more 8BA survivor engines out there by comparison to the 59 series or earlier engines.

[28fordroadster]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Actually there something of mission statement which evidently some of you have missed at the very beginning of this forum under the title "Hey Fellas.....Some Clarification" wherein the owner of this website specifically excludes hot rods and suggests those interested in them should to the HAMB website.

Ok I went and read the hey fellas. You guys are more pure than I imagined. I'll keep my questions stock related
Thanks

[cas3]

Theres lots of vintage ford hot rodders here. We don't talk much about SBC's, or vega steering boxes, but the interest and knowledge of vintage ford modifications is here. No need to run away