The Ford Barn

SHEC · 11-02-2021, 11:16 PM

I have an opportunity to buy a completely rebuilt engine that has been sitting sealed up for over 30 years. I personally knew the ace Model A mechanic that rebuilt it as our family Fords engine was rebuilt by him in 1978. A very well known and respected Model A Ford mechanic his entire life.
Our “A” has been trouble free for all these years and has nearly 25,000 miles on it all without removing a single shim or any other major issue.

Question is: what is the current value for a fresh engine such as this? The engine is free in rotation following a shot of oil down each cylinder. It was turned just 1/2 revolution to protect all the “new” babbit etc. Clean as a shiny new penny under the scope.

I value this community and the sage advice offered here. I don’t need an engine but don’t want to pass up a proven product from the past.....
Thanks in advance for your input. ✔️

Here it is all these years later.....

J Franklin · 11-02-2021, 11:23 PM

What price is it being offered at?

SHEC · 11-02-2021, 11:40 PM

No $ number given as yet. I was made aware of the engine and it’s been offered for sale to me first. I can tell you the 1970’s pricing - he averaged around $490.00. for good friends.
His work included taking weight off the flywheel, providing an oil pressure line to the center main and never went over .30 bore.... and a proven jobber for all the fresh babbit.

J Franklin · 11-03-2021, 12:25 AM

It would cost +- $ 3500 to have a good rebuild done today, but then there would be fresh work and a warrantee. I would ask what the seller wants for it. I am one that doesn't make offers unprompted. If I had stumbled accross it, and it wasn't a friend selling it, I would start at around $900

mercman from oz · 11-03-2021, 12:35 AM

Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time - SHEC

SHEC · 11-03-2021, 12:46 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

It would cost +- $ 3500 to have a good rebuild done today, but then there would be fresh work and a warrantee. I would ask what the seller wants for it. I am one that doesn't make offers unprompted. If I had stumbled accross it, and it wasn't a friend selling it, I would start at around $900

Copy that.....
Sitting as a “dry”engine, that is my concern. We did rotate it wet as noted.... 1/2 turn. It will be me making up my mind for something I don’t need right now but if the number is right, perhaps it would be worth a shot at for a decent number. But what is that number .....?
Thank you for the input, much appreciated!

SHEC · 11-03-2021, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercman from oz

Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time - SHEC

Sorry, it’s not gonna fit your beautiful Merc. my friend... 😎

ronn · 11-03-2021, 03:55 AM

2000. is a fair number- I sell old runners for 800.

do you want the "steal" or be fair? sounds like this motor is better then the 4k rebuilds out there now.

Kevin in NJ · 11-03-2021, 06:44 AM

Not enough information.

Sorry, but the reality is without knowing what was done to the engine you do not know the value. Some builders did cheap work that worked well enough to putt putt around and others that had some clue. Which one did the work on this engine.

Did they use lead babbitt or close to correct tin based babbitt. Lead babbitt is real easy to pour. Was everything balanced, that is did the rods, crank a flywheel get balanced? Were the main ground on center so the flywheel is in the correct place?
Was a good used cam and nice used valves used?

Since it was not run and it sat the surfaces inside would have had condensation and the pan needs to come off for an inspection and I guess the valve cover.

So what I am getting at is you are taking a risk in buying this engine. How much of a risk are you willing to take?
This all really becomes an exercise between your wallet and your risk level. If you want to assume it was built like shops today with it all balanced and such then you compare it to a $6000 engine. Personally my experience from taking apart many engines and hearing the problems of 'rebuilt' engines I make assumption that anything could be wrong and give a low price unless I have proof of better construction.

I would NOT pay anything over junk pricing without at least taking the pan off and inspecting it. I would also want to see the valve cover side too. Plus look inside the spark holes.

Big hammer · 11-03-2021, 07:04 AM

It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart.

ronn · 11-03-2021, 07:30 AM

It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart.

if thats the case, then every restored A out there that hasnt been run in 20 yrs needs to be torn apart.

I dont agree............

History · 11-03-2021, 07:46 AM

He didn't say he couldn't turn it more than a half round, ha said that he ONLY turned it half a round. That may have been a cautious move on his part to make sure he didn't damage. Your point is valid if that's all he could make it turn. I need this engine if you don't buy OP. ��

nkaminar · 11-03-2021, 08:01 AM

SHEC said that it was rebuilt by a reputable mechanic and that he rebuilt the engine he is driving now that has been reliable. So there is good assumption that it is a good engine. I would go with Ronn and offer $2,000, but try and get a price from the seller first.

My preference would be to at least take the pan off to peek inside to see if any rust has moved in. If not that then use a borescope to peek inside. Also peek inside the cylinders for the same reason. There is no need to completely disassemble the engine.

goodcar · 11-03-2021, 10:44 AM

The seller's price depends on how bad he wants to get rid of it. Your offer depends on how much you trust the rebuilder. There are many horror stories of beautifully painted, restored Model As and engines only to be revealed later that they are expensive nightmares. If this engine is as advertised, a fair price would be $3,500 but since you are taking a risk, I would say a fair offer would be $1,200 to $1,750.

Jim Brierley · 11-03-2021, 11:09 AM

Ask the builder what he used to prevent rusting or pre-lube everything, if any doubt, I would pull the pan, "just in case". Just before starting the engine, remove the dist, pour 1 quart of oil down the hole, re-insert the dist and start the engine. This gets oil to the mains. Everything else will get oil immediately upon start-up because the rods throw a mist that you wouldn't believe.

SHEC · 11-03-2021, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

Ask the builder what he used to prevent rusting or pre-lube everything, if any doubt, I would pull the pan, "just in case". Just before starting the engine, remove the dist, pour 1 quart of oil down the hole, re-insert the dist and start the engine. This gets oil to the mains. Everything else will get oil immediately upon start-up because the rods throw a mist that you wouldn't believe.

Unfortunately he is long gone and we truly miss him.
The oil checklist you noted is exactly what he told me to do and I will most certainly pull the pan if I close a deal on it.

Thanks to all for your input... much appreciated ✔️🇺🇸

SHEC · 11-03-2021, 11:47 AM

So noted....
A fair price is all I ask. You have provided solid and current numbers✔️
Thanks

SHEC · 11-03-2021, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

SHEC said that it was rebuilt by a reputable mechanic and that he rebuilt the engine he is driving now that has been reliable. So there is good assumption that it is a good engine. I would go with Ronn and offer $2,000, but try and get a price from the seller first.

My preference would be to at least take the pan off to peek inside to see if any rust has moved in. If not that then use a borescope to peek inside. Also peek inside the cylinders for the same reason. There is no need to completely disassemble the engine.

We did borescope it as noted . Clean as can be as it is garage stored with temp control. This would be easier if I needed the engine but the original engine rebuilt by the same mechanic is running strong as ever.

WHN · 11-03-2021, 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=ronn;2072752]It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart.

I have a Model A that sat from the end of WWII until 1980. It started right up and still is running strong today with nothing added but a new head, rebuilt distributor, leak less water pump, clutch, pressure plate, and new timing gear. Oh! Also new Zenith carburetor.

No smoke, no knocks or valve noise, compression in mid 60’s.

It’s like going to the casino, put your money down and see what happens. You could be a winner, but you have to bet to know. With what you are saying, I would take a chance.

Good luck.

J Franklin · 11-03-2021, 11:58 AM

It might be interesting to know just why it has sat so long. I would want to know what the seller is looking to get for it. If it is a kid that just put a 350 CI in the car and doesn't want to trip over this engine I would start as low as possible and watch his face for clues since he won't give any other indications of worth to him.

11-02-2021, 11:23 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time What price is it being offered at?

11-02-2021, 11:40 PM	#3
SHEC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 278	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time No $ number given as yet. I was made aware of the engine and it’s been offered for sale to me first. I can tell you the 1970’s pricing - he averaged around $490.00. for good friends. His work included taking weight off the flywheel, providing an oil pressure line to the center main and never went over .30 bore.... and a proven jobber for all the fresh babbit. Last edited by SHEC; 11-02-2021 at 11:47 PM.

11-03-2021, 12:25 AM	#4
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time It would cost +- $ 3500 to have a good rebuild done today, but then there would be fresh work and a warrantee. I would ask what the seller wants for it. I am one that doesn't make offers unprompted. If I had stumbled accross it, and it wasn't a friend selling it, I would start at around $900

11-03-2021, 12:35 AM	#5
mercman from oz Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 10,361	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time - SHEC

11-03-2021, 03:55 AM	#8
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,782	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time 2000. is a fair number- I sell old runners for 800. do you want the "steal" or be fair? sounds like this motor is better then the 4k rebuilds out there now.

11-03-2021, 06:44 AM	#9
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time Not enough information. Sorry, but the reality is without knowing what was done to the engine you do not know the value. Some builders did cheap work that worked well enough to putt putt around and others that had some clue. Which one did the work on this engine. Did they use lead babbitt or close to correct tin based babbitt. Lead babbitt is real easy to pour. Was everything balanced, that is did the rods, crank a flywheel get balanced? Were the main ground on center so the flywheel is in the correct place? Was a good used cam and nice used valves used? Since it was not run and it sat the surfaces inside would have had condensation and the pan needs to come off for an inspection and I guess the valve cover. So what I am getting at is you are taking a risk in buying this engine. How much of a risk are you willing to take? This all really becomes an exercise between your wallet and your risk level. If you want to assume it was built like shops today with it all balanced and such then you compare it to a $6000 engine. Personally my experience from taking apart many engines and hearing the problems of 'rebuilt' engines I make assumption that anything could be wrong and give a low price unless I have proof of better construction. I would NOT pay anything over junk pricing without at least taking the pan off and inspecting it. I would also want to see the valve cover side too. Plus look inside the spark holes.

11-03-2021, 07:04 AM	#10
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,127	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart. __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

11-03-2021, 07:30 AM	#11
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,782	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart. if thats the case, then every restored A out there that hasnt been run in 20 yrs needs to be torn apart. I dont agree............

11-03-2021, 07:46 AM	#12
History Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: NC Mountains Posts: 689	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time He didn't say he couldn't turn it more than a half round, ha said that he ONLY turned it half a round. That may have been a cautious move on his part to make sure he didn't damage. Your point is valid if that's all he could make it turn. I need this engine if you don't buy OP. ��

11-03-2021, 08:01 AM	#13
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,898	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time SHEC said that it was rebuilt by a reputable mechanic and that he rebuilt the engine he is driving now that has been reliable. So there is good assumption that it is a good engine. I would go with Ronn and offer $2,000, but try and get a price from the seller first. My preference would be to at least take the pan off to peek inside to see if any rust has moved in. If not that then use a borescope to peek inside. Also peek inside the cylinders for the same reason. There is no need to completely disassemble the engine. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

11-03-2021, 10:44 AM	#14
goodcar Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 293	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time The seller's price depends on how bad he wants to get rid of it. Your offer depends on how much you trust the rebuilder. There are many horror stories of beautifully painted, restored Model As and engines only to be revealed later that they are expensive nightmares. If this engine is as advertised, a fair price would be $3,500 but since you are taking a risk, I would say a fair offer would be $1,200 to $1,750.

11-03-2021, 11:09 AM	#15
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,085	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time Ask the builder what he used to prevent rusting or pre-lube everything, if any doubt, I would pull the pan, "just in case". Just before starting the engine, remove the dist, pour 1 quart of oil down the hole, re-insert the dist and start the engine. This gets oil to the mains. Everything else will get oil immediately upon start-up because the rods throw a mist that you wouldn't believe.

11-03-2021, 11:47 AM	#17
SHEC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 278	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time So noted.... A fair price is all I ask. You have provided solid and current numbers✔️ Thanks

11-03-2021, 11:54 AM	#19
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,819	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time [QUOTE=ronn;2072752]It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart. I have a Model A that sat from the end of WWII until 1980. It started right up and still is running strong today with nothing added but a new head, rebuilt distributor, leak less water pump, clutch, pressure plate, and new timing gear. Oh! Also new Zenith carburetor. No smoke, no knocks or valve noise, compression in mid 60’s. It’s like going to the casino, put your money down and see what happens. You could be a winner, but you have to bet to know. With what you are saying, I would take a chance. Good luck.

11-03-2021, 11:58 AM	#20
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time It might be interesting to know just why it has sat so long. I would want to know what the seller is looking to get for it. If it is a kid that just put a 350 CI in the car and doesn't want to trip over this engine I would start as low as possible and watch his face for clues since he won't give any other indications of worth to him.