Question re front springs

[Texas Tom]

I'm restoring a 1930 Briggs town sedan.

Today I was attaching the restored front spring assembly to the frame. When I tried to secure the center front spring clips with castle nuts, the nuts did not tighten far enough on the bolts to allow use of cotter pins. Not even close.

This made me ponder whether the spring assembly was compressed sufficiently (I could not tighten the center bolt/nut any further). While I can see a T I N Y amount of light between a couple of leaves, I do not judge that any further compression would allow installation of cotter pins on the spring clips.

My front spring assembly has 12 leaves. I wonder if this is too many, even though that was the number of leaves that came off the car when I disassembled it.

Page 4-6 of the MARC/MAFCA Restoration Guidelines states: "All model A chassis had a ten leaf front spring with clipped corners at the spring leaf ends." The prior page (4-5), however, includes a chart that shows that some Model A chassis had front springs containing 12, 13 or 14 leaves.

So...do I have two leaves too many? If so, which of my 12 leaves should be removed?

Thanks for any guidance you can offer.

[swo4rd]

10 leaves is standard. 12 leaves were optional for conditions, most likely. But you said that you restored the original spring? It seems that the OEM "U" bolts should fit but that was a special size elongated for the 12 leaf. I suspect you can get the "u" bolts elongated at a quality welding shop which should serve if you are not going to fine point judging.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

You don't know what condition existed when the two extra springs were installed. The prudent thing to do would be to take the spring set to a spring shop. Have the leafs inspected for cracks and arch. You may find the hidden reason for the extra leafs. Or, just get a new 10 leaf set. Also, it's a good idea to not re-use the old U bolts,....I know...most of you have NEVER had a problem with old bolts, but there is always a first time. The cost of new bolts is cheap insurance. Make sure they are American made and properly graded.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

the 12 leaf spring was offered for rough road conditions. It was also offered by Rick's Model A parts back in the 70's. Odds are your sedan had a 10 leaf spring originally and someone installed a 12, using the original U bolts. I do not know which leaves to remove, but they are likely above the clamps unless your spring has more than 5 leaves within the clamps.

[Joe K]

I don't think Marco's "spring study" offered any information on the front spring.

The later AA trucks are interesting in that the front spring is the same width as the Model A car rear spring - and the front frame crossmember is made to suit - and it uses the rear spring u-bolts.

Henry didn't waste anything - or create anything he couldn't use in multiple applications.

Joe K

[Keith True]

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I bought a chassis from a local farm that turned out to have an original 12 leaf spring in it.The car was driven down from Canada before the war to haul a bunch of brickyard workers to town.I redid the chassis for myself,and used it for years.I never studied the spring but when I went to replace it years later because of a bend in the end of it I got a surprise.The U-bolts were too long.That's when I investigated and found out about the 12 leaf.Seems to me that the spring plate was different too.Maybe not,but for some reason I kept all the parts all tied up together.I'll have to take a look.I still have the complete setup.I found the rear spring shackles for a car are the same as the front AA truck at the same time.I bought a NORS set made by Toledo that is marked,passenger rear,AA front.

[1931 flamingo]

When you removed the spring (I assume the nuts and c/pins were there) was it a 12 leaf? Have you arched the individual leaves?? Did you add a pastic/vinyl strip between the leaves or use some type of graphite lube?? Is the center bolt IN the hole in the frame?? Did you place a piece of chassis webbibg above the spring??
Paul in CT

[Texas Tom]

Tell me more about "chassis webbing above the spring."

Thanks.

[swo4rd]

Please excuse the conditions of these springs, but I was prausing (a LaGrange TX term for perusing if you know what I mean) around a junk yard one day and found a 12 leaf spring that was in every other way original. I also found an oem 10 leaf spring and took this picture of the two together. It appears that there are two additional leaves at the top. I believe I bought the 12 leafer and still have it somewhere in the stash. But now, ladies and gentlemen and girls reach up on the shelf and get your Parts Price List and on Page Twelve, you will find:
A-5310A....Front Spring Assembly - 10 leaf and
A-5310B....Front Spring Assembly - 12 leaf and a bit further down
It appears that the 12 leaf was indicated only for the 30-31 production years.
Glancing a little further down we see:
A-5455-B Front Spring Clip and just under that
A-5455-B Front Spring Clip for A-5310B...so it is clear, there was a special spring clip which is depicted as a "u" type bolt that holds the "starter crank bearing" in place...two required. The picture should also depict the extra leaves so you can remove them if you want to go that route.

[swo4rd]

Photo for previous post

[swo4rd]

Above the spring was an oiled piece of top material on my cars. My first Tudor, it was a piece of long grain top material. All seem to have been saturated in lubricant. All for anti squeak about which i am still preparing an article.

[1931 flamingo]

Texas Tom: You haven't answered the question as to if the nuts/cotterpins were OK when removed and if indeed you did remove a 12 leaf spring?? What's changed??
Paul in CT

[J Franklin]

I would opt for a ten leaf spring for todays roads.

[Texas Tom]

Thanks to all for your highly valuable input! I've learned a lot about front springs!

I removed the spring assembly, applied big clamps to each side, and proceeded to remove the center bolt that holds the leaves together. I then removed two of the shortest leaves, installed a new center bolt, tightened the leaves together, and reinstalled the assembly to the chassis.

Now with 10 rather than 12 leaves, the assembly fits perfectly. The U-bolts also fit just right. The castle nuts are secure and the cotter pins are in place.

I can't explain how this car ended up with 12 rather than 10 leaves. The car has never before been restored, and has just 54,000 original miles. In disassembling the car, it became obvious to me that VERY little on the car has been "disturbed" from the way it was back in May, 1930. Anyway, all is well now.

Thanks again for your generous assistance!

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Tom

be sure the top leaf has a beveled edge, or it will crack the cross member.

[swo4rd]

Heed Pat's words...they are correct..

I'm curious...the car could have come with a twelve leaf spring, it was an option...did you maybe mis place the original U bolts...or A-5455-B Front Spring Clip for A-5310B? I also agree that the vehicle today really doesn't require a 12 leaf spring but I am curious.

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by swo4rd

Above the spring was an oiled piece of top material on my cars. My first Tudor, it was a piece of long grain top material. All seem to have been saturated in lubricant. All for anti squeak about which i am still preparing an article.

Model A Ford's never came factory equipped with front or rear "anti-squeak" material placed between the spring and cross members. Many "shade tree mechanics" thought placing welting or top material between the frame and the springs would "improve" the springs performance. Many restorers are confused by the "anti-squeak material sold by vendors which is designed to be placed between the rear cross member and the body, not the spring.