Radiator Cap Won't fit into the grill shell

[Robbie Horn]

1931 Coupe. I purchased a shiny new chrome radiator cap for my A but it won't fit into the grill shell. It has a lip on the bottom of the cap that is too large for the hole in my grill shell.I found one online at The Early Ford Store in California that would work because it does not have a lip but they are out of them & don't know when they will get some more. I'm currently using a radiator cap that was on the car when I got it. Has anyone else ran into this problem?

[ursus]

My 31 coupe came with some kind of generic non-Model A cap that barely fits and when I tried to install the correct cap I had the same problem. Your photo captures what I found on my car and I'm wondering what is wrong with this.

[J Franklin]

The shell is sitting too high on the radiator or the neck is too Low.

[lrf]

I have an original radiator cap that measures 2 9/16 across, my repo measures 2 5/8. They both fit. Is your overflow tube in the way?

[brokenspoke]

Stock radiator?

[emf]

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I have the exact same problem and I blamed it on the repro Brassworks radiator. When I called them to discuss the problem, they answered, "Do you have any idea how many changes were made to that radiator?" When parts are single-sourced, this the the result. I chucked my repro cap in the lathe and removed about 1/4" from the lip.


Frank

[bobbader]

I could be wrong, but in more than one of the pictures, it looks like the radiator neck has less clearance to the opening in the shell on the driver side than on the passenger side. You might try loosening or removing the screws and nuts that hold the shell on to the radiator to see if there is any “wiggle room” to shift the shell around a little bit so the cap might fit. If you can “wiggle” the shell and make the cap fit, you then have to figure out how to modify the shell mounting brackets on the radiator to make it all work together. Obviously, if the brackets are “off by a mile” then the only alternative is to find someone who has a genuine original cap and see if it fits with everything back in place. I note the post showing differences between the diameter of the poster’s original cap and your new repro cap, but there were several different manufacturers of original caps, so this is not necessarily conclusive evidence that the repro is wrong.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by emf

I have the exact same problem and I blamed it on the repro Brassworks radiator. When I called them to discuss the problem, they answered, "Do you have any idea how many changes were made to that radiator?" When parts are single-sourced, this the the result. I chucked my repro cap in the lathe and removed about 1/4" from the lip.


Frank

When I bought a Brassworks radiator years ago, I thought I was getting a new, repro radiator. I didn't! What I got was a poorly done re core of an original radiator. That was in about 2014 and it has been to a radiator shop twice since to repair the poor workmanship.
At first, they tried to tell me that what I had was not one of theirs but when I supplied photos including of the Brassworks tag soldered to the under side of the top tank, I heard nothing more. Hmmmm.

[Robbie Horn]

Here's a pic of what I need. 'll probably do what EMF did & cut the lip off.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Robbie Horn

Here's a pic of what I need. 'll probably do what EMF did & cut the lip off.

I doubt that would be the most radical thing that has been done to any of our cars over the years just to keep them going. If it works, I say go for it.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Robbie Horn

I'll probably do what EMF did & cut the lip off.

Sounds like a good plan, much easier than extending the radiator neck.

[bobbader]

The picture you show is a gas cap. Other than the top and the knurl on the edge looking exactly the same as the radiator cap, they are 2 different animals. Nevertheless, good luck whatever you decide.

[Deny1950]

Robbie Horn just ran into this also. What i did is take a die grinder and take the insid lip off of shell, i had shell off for polishing, but that worked fine and no one will ever know. Except you guys lol I was leary of cutting bottom of cap as mentioned leaving a sharp edge, my 2 cents

[J Franklin]

wouldn't it be easier to find a cap of the right size?

[Robbie Horn]

Originally Posted by bobbader

The picture you show is a gas cap. Other than the top and the knurl on the edge looking exactly the same as the radiator cap, they are 2 different animals. Nevertheless, good luck whatever you decide.

https://www.earlyfordstore.com/produ...1-radiator-cap

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

The shell is sitting too high on the radiator or the neck is too Low.

Or the radiator is setting to low? Maybe add rubber shims under the radiator feet

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

Or the radiator is setting to low? Maybe add rubber shims under the radiator feet

Isn't the shell bolted to the radiator? If you raise the radiator by installing rubber shims it will also raise the shell.

[bobbader]

Robbie, appreciate the picture and, while the catalog heading suggests it's a radiator cap ......... I think not. If you look up the gas cap from the same supplier, you'll probably see the same picture. My guess is they were lazy and used the same picture for both catalog entries. As I noted, they look the same on top and through the side knurl, but, in reality, the radiator neck and interior clamping mechanism on the cap have smaller inside and outside diameters than the gas cap, so the bottom dimension of the two caps are different as well.

[ryanheacox]

I just got a new plain cap recently and have the same issue. My radiator is an older one from Independent Radiator, the same company that makes the non-brassworks radiators sold by (I believe) Brattons, Snyders and others.

[Swingle]

From the original picture, looks like the shell of the radiator is sitting too high above the radiator, the neck is too low.


I had this oeoblem with one replacement radiator, cap would not fit on it with shell on it. Put radiator on a workbench, with the front facing down. Put a carpenter square up to the top of the neck, was installed crooked. They replaced radiator, no problems with that one.

[Bill G]

Seems to me that if the shell is too high, the hood would not align when closed.

[Robbie Horn]

I need one like this one on my 1930 Model A but can't find one.

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by emf

I have the exact same problem and I blamed it on the repro Brassworks radiator. When I called them to discuss the problem, they answered, "Do you have any idea how many changes were made to that radiator?" When parts are single-sourced, this the the result. I chucked my repro cap in the lathe and removed about 1/4" from the lip.


Frank

Frank - The neck hole and aftermarket cap are the issue in this photo. This should not have anything to do with the radiator or the radiator neck. I just measured a Vintique cap and its .050" wall. What cap did you remove 1/4" off? Please contact us as we'd like to understand this situation better.

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

When I bought a Brassworks radiator years ago, I thought I was getting a new, repro radiator. I didn't! What I got was a poorly done re core of an original radiator. That was in about 2014 and it has been to a radiator shop twice since to repair the poor workmanship.
At first, they tried to tell me that what I had was not one of theirs but when I supplied photos including of the Brassworks tag soldered to the under side of the top tank, I heard nothing more. Hmmmm.

We restore radiators but the parts are the owner's and would not be sold to anyone else. I searched through your 6700+ forum posts but no luck. I looked for a Model A melbourne shipment in/around 2014 and no shipment exists. I don't know your name, only your forum persona so I am at a loss. Please email any photos as I would like to understand what you received. [email protected]

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

We restore radiators but the parts are the owner's and would not be sold to anyone else. I searched through your 6700+ forum posts but no luck. I looked for a Model A melbourne shipment in/around 2014 and no shipment exists. I don't know your name, only your forum persona so I am at a loss. Please email any photos as I would like to understand what you received. [email protected]

Not so! I bought this radiator from a vendor in the US as I told you in our correspondence.
A second thought here.... Maybe the vendor had some radiators repaired for resale. That would explain you having no record of one coming to Australia.
Our exchange was via PM here and when I sent you the pictures, by email.
Again, as I told you in our correspondence, I bought it from a US vendor so obviously you won't have a record of it coming to Australia.
That is the email address I used to send you the photos I mentioned in my earlier reply. You already have them. They were sent on Dec 5th 2022. You also have my email address. A response to that would be welcome.

[Synchro909]

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Still nothing from Brassworks and it's been well over a week. Disappointing.

[Robbie Horn]

Radiator is high up against the shell as it can go. Someone must have put a shorter neck in the radiator. Couldn't find anyone with a lathe to cut my cap down so I die grindered it. Problem solved.

[J Franklin]

Your whole episode was a different sort, I'm glad you have it fitting,and it looks good.

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

wouldn't it be easier to find a cap of the right size?

A very sensible solution! Wayne

[1939mars]

I had this same exact problem about a month ago. An older radiator cap fit just fine but I accidentally broke part of it so had to get a brand new one. I think the new one was vintique. I ended up grinding about 1/16" or less off the bottom and now it fits fine.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

When I bought a Brassworks radiator years ago, I thought I was getting a new, repro radiator. I didn't! What I got was a poorly done re core of an original radiator. That was in about 2014 and it has been to a radiator shop twice since to repair the poor workmanship.
At first, they tried to tell me that what I had was not one of theirs but when I supplied photos including of the Brassworks tag soldered to the under side of the top tank, I heard nothing more. Hmmmm.

I finally heard from Lee at Brassworks and he informed me that the problems I had with their radiator were because I use the car to tow a trailer - something about the vibrations are different. I call BS on that. After that, I decided it was not worth continuing to even speak to them.
Even back in the day, the vibrations going through the car would be different on a sealed road vs a corrugated unsealed road, vs a loaded vehicle, vs speed etc yet they survived.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by 1939mars

I had this same exact problem about a month ago. An older radiator cap fit just fine but I accidentally broke part of it so had to get a brand new one. I think the new one was vintique. I ended up grinding about 1/16" or less off the bottom and now it fits fine.

Well, there is the problem right there.

[Gene F]

These comments are something. WOW

[C1Nelson]

Measure the height of the neck. I had a repo radiator on a car that the neck was not as tall as other radiators. I found a taller neck on an older radiator that the cap would fit on. I heated the old radiator with a small bottle propane torch and when the solder melted, I removed it and soldered it on my radiator.

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I finally heard from Lee at Brassworks and he informed me that the problems I had with their radiator were because I use the car to tow a trailer - something about the vibrations are different. I call BS on that. After that, I decided it was not worth continuing to even speak to them.
Even back in the day, the vibrations going through the car would be different on a sealed road vs a corrugated unsealed road, vs a loaded vehicle, vs speed etc yet they survived.

Good Grief. I re-read my reply and your reply. I will try to be clearer for you. I am not in a position from 8,000 miles away to tell you the exact cause of a leak in a radiator made 9 years ago. To do so would be as you say, "BS." What I can tell you is the following; rust does not come from brass, rust will not consume brass, you have have described rivets were we do not put them and your local shop is doing work in an odd order of operations that I am not familiar with. I will not presume to speak to where drive, how you drive or Australian road maintenance. You had a problem and I am sorry it happened.

I am really really really sorry for you that you have devoted so much effort to your over 7,000 postings on this forum complaining about this radiator whenever our name comes up. It must be exhausting.

01-23-2023, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by The Brassworks
I did not see a the pressure cap. This is an arizona model a radiator purchase. I suspect your radiator shop took advantage of you. 1. You test a radiator before working on it. Then you repair and test again. If a secondary leak is there you repair that and test again. It makes no sense that they discovered a significant leak after fixing a smaller leak. The greater leak would present itself first. 2. There is no rivet where you are describing. If they said there was, they are not being truthful.

The solder holes are consistent with ford's production. We grind and flux and flood solder and it flows through the holes and joins the metals. This is not a typical failure point but if you travel 10,000 miles towing a trailer in a model a then you are likely vibrating and this may have cause a failure in the 8+ you have had it. I am sorry we are not closer as we could have repaired it.

[Gene F]

So this is solved Rob?

[ronn]

Mr Franklin has it right............... adjust the height.