ROTELLA 15W 40 Oil

[1929]

Costco has the Rotella 15W 40 on sale for $10 a gallon. It comes in a three gallon package-$29.99.

[rotorwrench]

Keeps the truckers happy too. Big diesels need a lot of oil.

[Jim Brierley]

That is for diesel engines, not recommended by oil companies for gasoline engines.

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

That is for diesel engines, not recommended by oil companies for gasoline engines.

Why not use it in gasoline engines, Jim? I suspect oil companies of a simple marketing ploy - but happy to be proved wrong(!)

[jrelliott]

That is what I use in my A. Been running it for about 12 years.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

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Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

That is for diesel engines, not recommended by oil companies for gasoline engines.

Rotella diesel oil should never be used in modern cars with catalytic converters and exhaust sensors as zinc/etc damages those components. From what I have read, Diesel oil is OK for our older cars, and the zinc may be beneficial.


My reading also indicates that modern low Zinc oils are OK to use in older cars since they are formulated with different ingredients as a replacement for Zinc.


My opinion, hope this does not start teh great oil/zinc debates again.

[1929]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

That is for diesel engines, not recommended by oil companies for gasoline engines.

Jim, Iam only using it because my engine rebuilder at Schwalms told me to use it.

[Beater]

I use synthetic 15-40 have forever

[Railcarmover]

Superior shear,load and detergent factor. You can get a low ash spec if you want to run it in a modern car,later diesels use a DPF,subject to the same problems as modern cars using earlier versions of diesel grade engine oil.

Shear factor resists wiping effect of piston rings and cam lifter contact.

Load factor is the ability of the oil to handle pressure of rod and main bearings and cam bores.

High detergent factor means debris stay suspended in the oil instead of depositing on the parts,resulting in a cleaner engine and no sludge.

[Werner]

Hallo!
"Rotella" oils are some of the few engine oils Shell manufactures specifically for diesel fuels. Unlike the same 15W/40 shell oil for gasoline engines, Rotella blends contain an increased proportion of high pressure additives, other cleaning additives, and less corrosion inhibitor / TBN neutralizer.

It's no problem to use Rotella in old-fashioned petrol engines. But there are no benefits. On the contrary. This results in more combustion residues and the lower corrosion protection / antixidants require shorter replacement intervals.

[Purdy Swoft]

I've used Rotella 15w40 in some of my model A's with no problem . I figure the 15 is a bit thin . I use Walmart 20W50 I figure that the 50 will better cushion the bearings on an eighty eight year old engine . I also use it in the professional rebuilt engine in another of my model A's .

[CarlG]

I use Rotella 15w40 in my engine. In Alaska's colder climate I don't think the 15 is too thin as it would be in a much warmer Alabama.

[Jim/GA]

Shell labelled the Rotella T oils as suitable for both diesel and gasoline engines for many years, using the API star system. The EPA made them stop marketing the oil to gasoline engines because the phosphorus in the ZDDP additive poisons the catalytic converters used on those cars. (It was either that or significantly reduce the ZDDP levels, which older diesel engines really need -- so they changed the marketing materials.)

Shell did not actually change the oil, they removed the API S_ star for spark ignition (SI) engines on higher-ZDDP oils. So if your Model A has a catalytic converter on it, you should NOT use the Rotella T oil in it or the EPA will be upset with you. Otherwise I consider the Rotella T4 (conventional oil) or T6 (fully synthetic) 15W40 to be the perfect Model A oil for year-round use. Shell can't "recommend" it because the EPA has told them not to.

[Mike V. Florida]

If you feel you need ZDDP,


"Shell Rotella T which is a conventional (mineral-based) oil that was originally formulated for diesel engines. Rotella T still contains 1,200 parts per million ZDDP, according to Shell – which is as much as five times the amount found in other oils. Don’t sweat it that Rotella was/is “for diesels.” It’s also an excellent choice for older, non-emissions controlled engines with flat tappet cams that need their ZDDP. Rotella’s also modestly priced and readily available at most any auto parts store. Shell also markets a synthetic version of Rotella that offers even more protection – as well as longevity and a 5W-40 viscosity for those who operate their vehicles in colder climates. Standard Rotella comes in a heavier 15W-40 blend."

[Purdy Swoft]

[QUOTE=CarlG;1806707]I use Rotella 15w40 in my engine. In Alaska's colder climate I don't think the 15 is too thin as it would be in a much warmer Alabama.[/QUOTE

]I agree .

[30 Closed Cab PU]

From my reading and understanding and my opinion


Zinc was not originally (late 20s/early 30s) an additive in oil. Zinc was added when higher compression motors were developed that revved /ran at much higher RPMs, which required much stiffer valve springs to prevent valve float. The Zinc was added as an anti-wear agent.


I do use T4 Rotella diesel oil. It is relatively inexpensive, available almost everywhere, has some zinc. Even though my opinion is Zinc is not needed, what the heck should not hurt anything. Lots of A people use Rotella, and have not seen/heard complaints. It may not be the "best" oil, but is a decent oil, and I change frequently, at 500 miles. I am a big believer on stock Model A motors without an oil filter, frequently changing oil is more important than what type of oil is used. If running an oil filter and extending oil change intervals, the type of oil used may have some effect.


I have read that overuse of Zinc Additives causes changes in metal that causes it to become brittle like. So more Zinc than recommended is not better. So if adding you need to know how much is in the oil you are using, and add only an appropriate amount.


As far as the amount of Zinc in Rotella, I am confused, but it does have some. I am unsure, but lean towards Mike's info in post 14. I've seen info online and in forums that support that the amount has been reduced, and other info that contradicts saying it has the required amounts.


I've also seen discussion about detergent vs. non detergent oil The detergent is not like a soap/thinner, it only acts to keep contaminants suspended in the oil until it can be drained. It does not break up existing sludge into globs. On the other hand the non-detergent oil some contamination stays suspended, and some settles. I suspect that in the day part of occasional maintenance was to drop the oil pan and open the valve access cover and clean out the sludge. Something the average owner who did his own oil changes most likely did not do.


So which is better on stock motors/no oil filter? Detergent oil which keeps all contamination suspended in the oil and going through the moving parts (EX - Babbitts) of the motor but keeps surfaces free of sludge, or non- detergent oil which may keep some contamination out of the oil but requires periodic dropping of the oil pan and opening the valve access cover for cleaning?


Choices seem to be running an oil filter, or frequent oil changes.


Since I am lazy, I prefer detergent oil with frequent oil changes since I do not run an oil filter. I also prefer detergent oil since it is multi weight which aids in reducing wear on the motor until the motor is warmed up.

[Jim Brierley]

Use what you want, I'm just saying diesel oils aren't the best for our A's. The additives aren't the same as recommended for gas engines. Zinc wasn't used in the 30's, our engines have steel cams, hardened, lifters and low spring pressure, not cast iron cams and high spring pressure, so zinc isn't nearly as important. There is still zinc in gas oils, just not as much as in the 60's and 70's. I've seen engines running non-detergent oil that are so clogged up with sludge that the oil pump starves for oil and so much sludge in the overhead area that it takes several minutes for it to reach the sump, so detergent is needed. I repeat, use whatever you want.

[1929]

I did notice one thing, when I do an oil change, this 15w 40 is very dark, compared to my modern car oil changes, for whatever that means.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 1929

I did notice one thing, when I do an oil change, this 15w 40 is very dark, compared to my modern car oil changes, for whatever that means.

Have also noticed my 500 mile oil change is black, have not seen others mention it. So thought it was normal.


Have you tried other oils in your A, and if yes how does the color of the Rotella drain oil compare to the other types?

[1929]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Have also noticed my 500 mile oil change is black, have not seen others mention it. So thought it was normal.


Have you tried other oils in your A, and if yes how does the color of the Rotella drain oil compare to the other types?

No, I have been using the 15W 40 because my rebuilder told me to only use it. I also have a filter. I did drop the oil pan recently to change the pan gasket, and did notice absolutely no sludge, and everything was clean, but, Iam still curious of the quick color change. Maybe Jim has a point.

[jb-ob]

Many reasons for 'black' oil but most over looked is the fact if your driving your Model A without an air filter, sucking up all the turbulent dirt off the highway.


Boat owners have 'clean' oil much longer...

[1929]

Originally Posted by jb-ob

Many reasons for 'black' oil but most over looked is the fact if your driving your Model A without an air filter, sucking up all the turbulent dirt off the highway.


Boat owners have 'clean' oil much longer...

I have an air and oil filter.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Werner

Hallo!
"Rotella" oils are some of the few engine oils Shell manufactures specifically for diesel fuels. Unlike the same 15W/40 shell oil for gasoline engines, Rotella blends contain an increased proportion of high pressure additives, other cleaning additives, and less corrosion inhibitor / TBN neutralizer.

It's no problem to use Rotella in old-fashioned petrol engines. But there are no benefits. On the contrary. This results in more combustion residues and the lower corrosion protection / antixidants require shorter replacement intervals.

Well said Werner.

[jb-ob]

That's an air filter !! ??


I'd be asking Jim Brierley for suggestions to improve that.

[M2M]

I wouldn't use ROTELLA 15W40 oil even if you paid me.

[1929]

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Originally Posted by jb-ob

That's an air filter !! ??


I'd be asking Jim Brierley for suggestions to improve that.

Why do I have to ask Jim, obviously you must have a reason or an answer why the air filter is not good.

[jb-ob]

Jim Brierley is the performance guru of the Model A having successfully 'run them' at Bonneville.


A stock era Air Maze on a stock Model A has been proven to actually restrict air flow thru a stock A carburetor.


From your photo you have a lot of performance breathing going on from headers, trick intake manifold, and a perfectly adequate Stromberg....all to be choked by possibly too small a flowing air cleaner.


Just a suggestion.....but excuse me, all this has nothing to do with motor oil.

[1929]

Originally Posted by jb-ob

Jim Brierley is the performance guru of the Model A having successfully 'run them' at Bonneville.


A stock era Air Maze on a stock Model A has been proven to actually restrict air flow thru a stock A carburetor.


From your photo you have a lot of performance breathing going on from headers, trick intake manifold, and a perfectly adequate Stromberg....all to be choked by possibly too small a flowing air cleaner.


Just a suggestion.....but excuse me, all this has nothing to do with motor oil.

I have no problem with suggestions or recommendations for improvement, I have an ear for everyone.

[Werner]

I have a general note about engine oils.

I do not know how strictly that is regulated in the USA. But in Germany environmental protection has a very high say in the oil mixtures. For example, phosphorus and sulfur must very barely added.

However, phosphorus and sulfur are excellent emergency lubricants in the limit lubrication range. (Top dead center cylinder/piston, Outlet-valve stem.)
Overall, therefore, discussions are fruitless over then and now, because it did in the past not know better then today. And no lubricant manufacturers is interested today, because the sales volume of vintage oil is uninteresting.

[Werner]

I would like to clarify something else:

No A-motor will be damaged if it is driven with "Rotella" for diesel engines. Everyday wear is no different.

But with this oil, more will deposit carbon residue and ash than with a similar Shell oil for gasoline engines.

The extent to which over the tens of thousands of miles to worse cylinder filling due to coked valves and combustion chambers (worse gas exchange) and perhaps glow-ignitions depends on how the car is driven and whether in the fuel cleaning additives (detergents, MMO) are added.

The Rotella oil is undoubtedly a good oil. But for the A, there are more optimal lubricating oils for the same money.

[Jim Brierley]

I know very little about air cleaners, I don't run them on my A's, or Bonneville engines. I do know they can be restrictive, and really complicate things when using Strombergs because the bowl vent is below air filter. I live on a dirt road, and my engines show very little wear after many thousands of miles, but still believe they are a good idea.

[dumb person]

I have used diesel oil for a long time, yes it gets dirty quickly but that is because it's holding the contaminants.

Interestingly it erodes the sludge over a short time. But yuck, clean the sludge out first.

Somewhere i had a video of sludge and oil dissolving it but can't think where i left it...

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I find Werner's post #10 interesting. Have a motor that was rebuilt last winter and have been using Rotella 15w40 diesel oil. Motor runs great, but 500 mile oil changes are a deep India ink black color. Have tried 2 different rebuilt carbs, no difference.
After reading the above, get the impression the oil should be in better shape at the 500 mile mark. Do not run an oil/air filter, but now think oil should be in better shape anyway.


Am running the hotter W18 spark plugs to keep soot down on the outer part of the plugs, and to keep the black off the center when driving low/medium speeds.


Am now wondering if the motor may being running dirty due to the Rotella oil.
Think I will try a different non-diesel oil nest year, perhaps Castrol GTX 20w50.


What you think? Comments?

[1929]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I find Werner's post #10 interesting. Have a motor that was rebuilt last winter and have been using Rotella 15w40 diesel oil. Motor runs great, but 500 mile oil changes are a deep India ink black color. Have tried 2 different rebuilt carbs, no difference.
After reading the above, get the impression the oil should be in better shape at the 500 mile mark. Do not run an oil/air filter, but now think oil should be in better shape anyway.


Am running the hotter W18 spark plugs to keep soot down on the outer part of the plugs, and to keep the black off the center when driving low/medium speeds.


Am now wondering if the motor may being running dirty due to the Rotella oil.
Think I will try a different non-diesel oil nest year, perhaps Castrol GTX 20w50.


What you think? Comments?

I started this thread because the oil was on sale, I was curious myself about the quick change in color. This is the only oil I have used since my engine was rebuilt, and was told to use this and add ZDDP. I noticed some negative responses to the use of Rotella 15W 40, so I asked the rebuilder two days ago if I should continue the use of this oil, his response was, use Valvoline 20W 50 racing oil.Guess I will switch.

[Purdy Swoft]

Check the gaps at the rotor tip on all contacts in the distributor cap body . A lot of times the gaps will be all over the place in some reproduction distributor caps . Ford recommended a conservative gap of twenty five thousands . For hotter spark at the spark plugs I run a gap of thirty five thousands at the rotor tip . Jumping a wider gap ,to a point will increase the spark intensity . Too much gap will advance the timing to the point that it will run poorly if at all . Running too rich could be the cause of darkening of the motor oil . A hotter spark should help ignite the raw gas .

[diomed]

I haven't visited fordbarn for a long time. Decided to see whats up and right there at the top is an oil thread. Nice to see I haven't missed anything

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Check the gaps at the rotor tip on all contacts in the distributor cap body . A lot of times the gaps will be all over the place in some reproduction distributor caps . Ford recommended a conservative gap of twenty five thousands . For hotter spark at the spark plugs I run a gap of thirty five thousands at the rotor tip . Jumping a wider gap ,to a point will increase the spark intensity . Too much gap will advance the timing to the point that it will run poorly if at all . Running too rich could be the cause of darkening of the motor oil . A hotter spark should help ignite the raw gas .

"Too much gap will advance the timing to the point that it will run poorly if at all." Actually, the amount of rotor gap (or plug gap) has no measurable effect on timing. Secondary voltage rise in the coil is too rapid (milliseconds) to affect when the spark will occur, but if anything, in theory the spark will occur later with a larger rotor gap.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by diomed

I haven't visited fordbarn for a long time. Decided to see whats up and right there at the top is an oil thread. Nice to see I haven't missed anything

Yep, it's sad.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I've used Rotella 15w40 in some of my model A's with no problem . I figure the 15 is a bit thin . I use Walmart 20W50 I figure that the 50 will better cushion the bearings on an eighty eight year old engine . I also use it in the professional rebuilt engine in another of my model A's .

15w40 is only "thin" when the oil is cold which is a good thing because it flows to the bearings faster at start up. 15w40 oil doesn't stay at 15 when the engine warms up. When the engine is at operating temperature it is 40.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by diomed

I haven't visited fordbarn for a long time. Decided to see whats up and right there at the top is an oil thread. Nice to see I haven't missed anything

You are correct, same arguments and same misinformation about multi weight oils and how the work.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

15w40 is only "thin" when the oil is cold which is a good thing because it flows to the bearings faster at start up. 15w40 oil doesn't stay at 15 when the engine warms up. When the engine is at operating temperature it is 40.

No harm meant , I know that with multi viscosity oils that the only time that the low number is used is when the oil is cold . Thin oil flows quicker .Usually a cold engine will have more clearance than a hot engine and can be subject to knocks at start up . It doesn't get very cold where I live . I would prefer 20W for cold flow here .. Quick flow isn't the only thing that is important . I feel that more viscosity to a point will better cushion the bearings . The owners manual recommends 20W in winter and 40W in summer . 20W 40 would be ideal . I feel that 50w would be good for older engines with some wear . I feel that most engines over 85 years old will have some wear unless they have been rebuilt recently . I use 20W50 and it seems to work well for me .

[The Master Cylinder]

I can't comment on that. I use 20w50 Lucas Classic Car Oil. I'm in Southern Callifornia

[Patrick L.]

Multi-vis oil doesn't really change viscosity. A 10W-30 flows like a 10 weight/viscosity with the film strength of a 30.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Multi-vis oil doesn't really change viscosity. A 10W-30 flows like a 10 weight/viscosity with the film strength of a 30.

You are correct and I should not have worded my post that way. I was just trying to make a point.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

You are correct and I should not have worded my post that way. I was just trying to make a point.

I figured. There are some that think the oil thickens as it warms. I don't know where that came from.

[DBSHELTON]

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Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

That is for diesel engines, not recommended by oil companies for gasoline engines.

What oil do you recommend?

[Jim Brierley]

I use NAPA 20/50 in my street engines, synthetic racing oil in my Bonneville engine.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

I use NAPA 20/50 in my street engines, synthetic racing oil in my Bonneville engine.

Hi Jim,


I just looked at Napa online, for 20w50 all that came up was Lucas high zinc for $38 for 5 quarts.


https://www.napaonline.com/en/search...ualified=false.


No Napa house brand. Are you referring to Lucas Oil?

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I figured. There are some that think the oil thickens as it warms. I don't know where that came from.

Oil certainly doesn't thicken when warm-hot . Thinner oil does flow better than thick oil . Fifteen is the low number and hence the thinner of the two numbers used in a 15W40 multi viscosity oil . Just about any oil can work , even burnt oil . Being as the owners manual recommends 20W for winter and 40W for hotter temps . My point is that 15W oil is simply thinner than the oil that Ford recommended . Though oils have improved because of additives . I figure that Weight still means the same that it ever meant . A thicker oil cushions the bearings better . Oil thins with heat . Fifteen W oil is the thinner of the two numbers and will flow better . Flow isn't the only thing that is important .

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Oil certainly doesn't thicken when warm-hot . Thinner oil does flow better than thick oil . Fifteen is the low number and hence the thinner of the two numbers used in a 15W40 multi viscosity oil . Just about any oil can work , even burnt oil . Being as the owners manual recommends 20W for winter and 40W for hotter temps . My point is that 15W oil is simply thinner than the oil that Ford recommended . Though oils have improved because of additives . I figure that Weight still means the same that it ever meant . A thicker oil cushions the bearings better . Oil thins with heat . Fifteen W oil is the thinner of the two numbers and will flow better . Flow isn't the only thing that is important .

The "W" in 20W, etc., stands for "Winter" not "Weight"!

[Ted Duke]

The "W" indicates that the first number is the "cold" or "winter" rating.

[Patrick L.]

What the 'W' means is the oil flow rate at cold temps. In other words a 10W-30 flows like a 10W at cold temps but has the film strength of a 30W.

[big job]

I am happy with 20-50 racing oil with zinc from Napa. Ah the good ole oil debate. Do
you all remember; example my new 1975 F250 with strict instructions to only use Ford 300
motor oil or the or the warrantee will be revoked. Lets be logical, Ford Motor Co. is not
in the oil refinery business. No doubt oils, lube whatever most likely goes to the lowest
bidder could be any oil but with the Ford logo printed on the can. And then we bought a
new biggest Ford backhoe think its was a 7500 anyways same deal to only use Ford 300
oil another warantee gimmick. Ah the backhoe is a diesel right and the new pickup was
a 360 gas job: not only engine oil it goes for hydraulic oil too of course more money than
going to Napa. Not only Ford practiced this all others did also. sam