The Ford Barn

Ed Northrop · 01-08-2018, 02:35 PM

Is there a great advantage of installing a 1932 model B engine in place of the model A ford 4 cyl. Would it require any changes. I see swap out exhaust manifold and cap off fuel pump. The motor in question has a Winfield head and dual point distributor.

Purdy Swoft · 01-08-2018, 03:03 PM

Probably the easiest way would be to use the model A flywheel housing . It would be necessary to remove the rear lower part of the model B oil pan that is the lower part of the model B flywheel housing . The B engine would then bolt up to the rear model A motor mounts the same as the model A engine .

Chuck Sea/Tac · 01-08-2018, 04:05 PM

B engines have a bigger crank than an A. ( bigger bearings). Also the main bearings are pressurized. The deck is more prone to cracking.imo

Purdy Swoft · 01-08-2018, 04:10 PM

I would sure use the model B flywheel . the clutch is the same but the flywheel is lighter.

Synchro909 · 01-08-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

B engines have a bigger crank than an A. ( bigger bearings). Also the main bearings are pressurized. The deck is more prone to cracking.imo

I agree 110%. The top of the B block is VERY prone to cracking. I reckon about 9 out of 10 are cracked. That is certainly something Ford got very wrong. I suspect it was cheapskate trying to save a couple of cents on each motor by using less cast iron even during the depression.
The B motor should have been an improvement on the A motor but........

hardtimes · 01-08-2018, 05:46 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Northrop

Is there a great advantage of installing a 1932 model B engine in place of the model A ford 4 cyl. Would it require any changes. I see swap out exhaust manifold and cap off fuel pump. The motor in question has a Winfield head and dual point distributor.

Hey Ed,
IF the B block is in GOOD condition, I think that you will find that this engine is a big improvement over your A.

Before closing deal, I'd take that Winfield off of the block. Do a very detailed check for cracks/repairs to evaluate situation.

While the head is off, you can examine valves/pistons/bore size condition, etc for details in you favor also. Good luck.

Ed Northrop · 01-08-2018, 06:08 PM

Thanks for the information.

Purdy Swoft · 01-08-2018, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I agree 110%. The top of the B block is VERY prone to cracking. I reckon about 9 out of 10 are cracked. That is certainly something Ford got very wrong. I suspect it was cheapskate trying to save a couple of cents on each motor by using less cast iron even during the depression.
The B motor should have been an improvement on the A motor but........

I agree !!! As far as the model B engines go , the core type engines are usually outrageously priced . To make it worse , if the valve seats aren't already cracked it probably won't be long before they are . The B crank can have the mains turned down and be used in an A engine. The cam is barely worth the trouble . The head and and distributor on the above mentioned engine would have good value. I would be afraid to invest a lot of money in a Model B engine .

Railcarmover · 01-08-2018, 07:18 PM

The model B engine is a great base for a full overhead valve conversion..that way cracks dont matter..weld'em up.deck'em and go..

Purdy Swoft · 01-08-2018, 07:56 PM

If the cracks didn't go far enough to cause resleeving the block and a person could afford the OHV head , it could work . That way a person could still benefit from the larger bearings and mild oil pressure . if the guy had deeper pockets the crankshaft could be drilled for full pressure to the rod bearings . mine are just fun cars and the expense wouldn't be worth it to me .

Tom Wesenberg · 01-09-2018, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I agree !!! As far as the model B engines go , the core type engines are usually outrageously priced . To make it worse , if the valve seats aren't already cracked it probably won't be long before they are . The B crank can have the mains turned down and be used in an A engine. The cam is barely worth the trouble . The head and and distributor on the above mentioned engine would have good value. I would be afraid to invest a lot of money in a Model B engine .

X2
I'd prefer a Model A block with a counterweighted crankshaft and higher compression head.

Synchro909 · 01-09-2018, 02:54 AM

What Purdy and Tom said. All of my As are drivers and I DO drive them. As I've said here before, my wife and I have done tens of thousands of miles towing a camper around the outback. I chose an A engine with counterbalanced crank running on inserts, down draught carb, 5.5:1 head and mildly improved cam. The middle main bearing is pressure fed at 25psi. Mitchell gearbox and O/D.
I wouldn't try it with a B engine. In theory, the bottom end should be able to do it but I fear the block won't. As Purdy said, I wouldn't spend a heap of $ on a B engine.

Karl · 01-09-2018, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I agree !!! As far as the model B engines go , the core type engines are usually outrageously priced . To make it worse , if the valve seats aren't already cracked it probably won't be long before they are . The B crank can have the mains turned down and be used in an A engine. The cam is barely worth the trouble . The head and and distributor on the above mentioned engine would have good value. I would be afraid to invest a lot of money in a Model B engine .

I also agree -I have a B block sitting in my shed with cracked valve seats. My plan is to use the B crank and flywheel to built another motor using a nice A block I have -The previous owner of my Phaeton had spent a lot of dollars on the B engine which I had to take out six months after I brought it on account of the cracks -Luckily had a spare A engine which I was able to use -I'm not greatly impressed with B engines .I did ask my machine shop if we could repair the cracks and the answer was no. I suspect what they mean is its not economic to do the repair given the availability of blocks. I'll still hang onto the block because in 20 years blocks may not be readily available and someone may want it and be prepared to repair it. After all today we repair and use original stuff that they would have thrown away 20 years ago ! Karl

Railcarmover · 01-09-2018, 09:00 AM

The only advantage is the pressurized oil gallery and larger crank journals,big advantages if you build for speed.With the OHV the valve chambers are not subject to the heat and cooling cycles present in the flathead thus the cracking failures are eliminated.With the OHV higher horsepower potential exists.Getting into the B block cheap and getting enough stuff with it is critical,even then offsetting the cost of the OHV is a steep hill to climb,for 5k you can build an nice model a engine.Right now mine is in the 'potential' stage,till I win the lottery.

Purdy Swoft · 01-09-2018, 12:05 PM

We always buy tickets , hopeing to win , but it ain't happened yet . If I could have won the last one I would have been in the market for a Mercer Raceabout !!!

Chippy Minton · 01-09-2018, 12:10 PM

I’ve got a B block in my car. It’s great. There is a lot of over the top negativity on this thread.

Bob Bidonde · 01-09-2018, 12:41 PM

I have been beating on Model B engines for many years, and it has been my experience that the Model B engine is not prone to cracking. Do you see anything unusual about this engine?

ursus · 01-09-2018, 01:01 PM

Looks like you have relocated the rear main drain tube. I would love to hear more about that!

Dave in MN · 01-09-2018, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ursus

Looks like you have relocated the rear main drain tube. I would love to hear more about that!

I noticed the same. I agree; more info please.
Thanks for sharing.
Good Day!

Dick Carne · 01-09-2018, 01:42 PM

I am currently running a B engine in my Town Sedan, and have previously run one in my phaeton. However, I have been unable to determine any significant difference in performance. I initially chose to run the B engine in the sedan because I built it as a winter tour car, but at this point, if I had it to do over, I would probably build a nice A engine with some of the touring components now available. When it becomes necessary to freshen this engine, I may still consider switching back as I still have the original numbers-matching engine.

As several have already stated, a number of the B engines that I have come across over the years have either cracked seats and/or a crack between cylinders. Overall, it is my personal opinion that the A block is a better engine overall, although if you anticipate building more of a performance engine, the larger crank may offset some of the other benefits of the A engine.

Good luck to you whatever decision you choose.

01-08-2018, 02:35 PM	#1
Ed Northrop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Naples, New York Posts: 182	Model B Engine Is there a great advantage of installing a 1932 model B engine in place of the model A ford 4 cyl. Would it require any changes. I see swap out exhaust manifold and cap off fuel pump. The motor in question has a Winfield head and dual point distributor.

01-08-2018, 03:03 PM	#2
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model B Engine Probably the easiest way would be to use the model A flywheel housing . It would be necessary to remove the rear lower part of the model B oil pan that is the lower part of the model B flywheel housing . The B engine would then bolt up to the rear model A motor mounts the same as the model A engine .

01-08-2018, 04:05 PM	#3
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Model B Engine B engines have a bigger crank than an A. ( bigger bearings). Also the main bearings are pressurized. The deck is more prone to cracking.imo

01-08-2018, 04:10 PM	#4
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model B Engine I would sure use the model B flywheel . the clutch is the same but the flywheel is lighter.

01-08-2018, 06:08 PM	#7
Ed Northrop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Naples, New York Posts: 182	Re: Model B Engine Thanks for the information.

01-08-2018, 07:18 PM	#9
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Model B Engine The model B engine is a great base for a full overhead valve conversion..that way cracks dont matter..weld'em up.deck'em and go..

01-08-2018, 07:56 PM	#10
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model B Engine If the cracks didn't go far enough to cause resleeving the block and a person could afford the OHV head , it could work . That way a person could still benefit from the larger bearings and mild oil pressure . if the guy had deeper pockets the crankshaft could be drilled for full pressure to the rod bearings . mine are just fun cars and the expense wouldn't be worth it to me .

01-09-2018, 02:54 AM	#12
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Model B Engine What Purdy and Tom said. All of my As are drivers and I DO drive them. As I've said here before, my wife and I have done tens of thousands of miles towing a camper around the outback. I chose an A engine with counterbalanced crank running on inserts, down draught carb, 5.5:1 head and mildly improved cam. The middle main bearing is pressure fed at 25psi. Mitchell gearbox and O/D. I wouldn't try it with a B engine. In theory, the bottom end should be able to do it but I fear the block won't. As Purdy said, I wouldn't spend a heap of $ on a B engine. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

01-09-2018, 09:00 AM	#14
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Model B Engine The only advantage is the pressurized oil gallery and larger crank journals,big advantages if you build for speed.With the OHV the valve chambers are not subject to the heat and cooling cycles present in the flathead thus the cracking failures are eliminated.With the OHV higher horsepower potential exists.Getting into the B block cheap and getting enough stuff with it is critical,even then offsetting the cost of the OHV is a steep hill to climb,for 5k you can build an nice model a engine.Right now mine is in the 'potential' stage,till I win the lottery.

01-09-2018, 12:05 PM	#15
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model B Engine We always buy tickets , hopeing to win , but it ain't happened yet . If I could have won the last one I would have been in the market for a Mercer Raceabout !!!

01-09-2018, 12:10 PM	#16
Chippy Minton Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 129	Re: Model B Engine I’ve got a B block in my car. It’s great. There is a lot of over the top negativity on this thread.

01-09-2018, 01:01 PM	#18
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,374	Re: Model B Engine Looks like you have relocated the rear main drain tube. I would love to hear more about that!

01-09-2018, 01:42 PM	#20
Dick Carne Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fayetteville, Georgia Posts: 467	Re: Model B Engine I am currently running a B engine in my Town Sedan, and have previously run one in my phaeton. However, I have been unable to determine any significant difference in performance. I initially chose to run the B engine in the sedan because I built it as a winter tour car, but at this point, if I had it to do over, I would probably build a nice A engine with some of the touring components now available. When it becomes necessary to freshen this engine, I may still consider switching back as I still have the original numbers-matching engine. As several have already stated, a number of the B engines that I have come across over the years have either cracked seats and/or a crack between cylinders. Overall, it is my personal opinion that the A block is a better engine overall, although if you anticipate building more of a performance engine, the larger crank may offset some of the other benefits of the A engine. Good luck to you whatever decision you choose.