The Ford Barn

insomniacshotrods · 08-26-2013, 10:35 PM

I was sitting in my 29 tonight and was going through the gears with engine not running. Had trouble going into second,like when i was driving it . Had periodical trouble going back into first as well. But if i went into neutral and rattled the shifter side to side, like when you make sure its in neutral, it popped right in no problems. With or without the clutch pushed in. I guess instead of double clutching i can triple rattle my shifter. Dont laugh it worked great,but seriously Is there something i need to adjust on shifter? Oil something? Any ideas? Thanks

Mike V. Florida · 08-26-2013, 10:37 PM

On the end of the shift lever there should be a round ball. Most likeley it is not round.

Mitch//pa · 08-26-2013, 10:46 PM

these are non syncronized trannies, as things need to be churning inside like engine running and gears moving. what you tried with the engine off is possibly normal. as far as driving and having problems shifting thats another story. was the trans serviced with proper oil. clutch adjustment and just overall shifting practices at the proper speeds ot maybe what mike v said

Kurt in NJ · 08-26-2013, 10:47 PM

When the "ball" on the end of the shifter is worn, and the notch in the shifter fork is worn ---along with the detent notches in the rails just shoving the lever towards 2nd can cause it to jam ---I learned to go in the "H" --1st--to n, across the "H",2nd ---after I built up the ball, chose good forks and rails, new springs and balls ---now I can just shove it into 2nd --or any other position without any thought of stopping at "N"

insomniacshotrods · 08-26-2013, 10:56 PM

Wow ! Thanks for the quick replies guys. I wondered if i had to have it moving ,but it acted just like that when i was driving had alot of trouble going into second. I thought it was just me not ever driving one before. Till it did same thing sitting there and i could go into gear after rattling the shifter. Kurt did you have to pull tranny to do the shifter forks and rails? I guess you welded up the ball and ground it back round? Sorry dont know a darn thing about em yet.

Mike V. Florida · 08-26-2013, 11:03 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by insomniacshotrods

Wow ! Thanks for the quick replies guys. I wondered if i had to have it moving ,but it acted just like that when i was driving had alot of trouble going into second. I thought it was just me not ever driving one before. Till it did same thing sitting there and i could go into gear after rattling the shifter. Kurt did you have to pull tranny to do the shifter forks and rails? I guess you welded up the ball and ground it back round? Sorry dont know a darn thing about em yet.

Yes

Tom Wesenberg · 08-26-2013, 11:15 PM

You only need to remove the top of the tranny (shift lever cover) to weld the ball back round. It should be 1/2".

ctlikon0712 · 08-26-2013, 11:20 PM

Check this site out. There are a bunch of excellent articles by Tom Endy. Read through the one about shifter tower rebuild or restore.... It explains much.
http://www.ocmafc.org/techarticles.htm

PC/SR · 08-27-2013, 01:03 AM

Don't over analyze this. Since you stated the car was not running, putting it in gear with the engine not running may sometimes not be easy because the gears are not lined up right, that is the way it was when you stopped and things moved a fraction of an inch. That is the way non-synchro manual transmissions are. Jiggling things back and forth to get it in gear when the engine is stopped is not unusual. Sometimes it slides in, sometimes not. Not to worry.

When it is running, the gears will also not shift easily if they are not lined up right. Up shifting does not require double clutching, down shifting normally does. I say normally, because you can eventually learn to shift with no clutch action at all, except when stopped. Your trans sounds OK to me based on what you say.
Shifting is easier if the shift ball is dead round, but the A trans will work fine even if it is flat to some degree, not to mention wear on the shift forks. The key test is how much side to side and up and down play is there when it is in gear. More than a few inches means you should look at the ball and forks. But whatever it is, if it works for you, drive it.

SeaSlugs · 08-27-2013, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PC/SR

Don't over analyze this. Since you stated the car was not running, putting it in gear with the engine not running may sometimes not be easy because the gears are not lined up right, that is the way it was when you stopped and things moved a fraction of an inch. That is the way non-synchro manual transmissions are. Jiggling things back and forth to get it in gear when the engine is stopped is not unusual. Sometimes it slides in, sometimes not. Not to worry.

this is also true of modern syncro trannies when the engine isnt running. needs to be spinning for the syncros to do thier jobs. usually they can shift around but reverse usually isnt syncroed so still have to fight with it somtimes.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-28-2013, 12:16 AM

So, you're an insomniac too! I too, over think EVERYTHING!! Betcha' a dollar to a doughnut that yo' tranny is normal! Drive it & get used to adapting yo' self to the tranny, not the other way around! Soon you will even train yourself to do downshifts from high to second at 30 to 35 MPH, even!! WARNING: learn to do this before venturing into mountainous terrain!! Bill W. (Minerva had REALLY "crisp" shift rail detents & required a nano-second pause in neutral, then "slap" it with an open palm hand into the next gear.)

Marco Tahtaras · 08-28-2013, 01:37 PM

As already noted when the gears are stationary as with the engine off and car still, one or more gears are often misaligned meaning a tooth on one gear is directly inline with a tooth in the other gear which you are attempting to engage. Obviously they will simply butt each other instead of meshing and slipping in to place.

Now as an example, if this occurs when you are attempting to put it in third gear it simply won't go in. Generally you can quickly push the shifter forward and slip it into second. If those gears are not perfectly aligned the second/third sliding gear will rotate slightly and that is enough to allow third gear to engage when you pull the shifter back rearward.

Due to the different numbers of teeth on each gear there are occasions when the gear teeth are so well aligned (or misaligned) that the above doesn't work. Placing the transmission in first or second will usually force the counter shaft (cluster) gear to rotate enough to finally engage the desired gear.

This isn't all that important in the overall scheme of things but it does explain how and why what you describe is totally normal.

08-26-2013, 10:35 PM	#1
insomniacshotrods Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Carthage, Missouri Posts: 267	putting it in gear I was sitting in my 29 tonight and was going through the gears with engine not running. Had trouble going into second,like when i was driving it . Had periodical trouble going back into first as well. But if i went into neutral and rattled the shifter side to side, like when you make sure its in neutral, it popped right in no problems. With or without the clutch pushed in. I guess instead of double clutching i can triple rattle my shifter. Dont laugh it worked great,but seriously Is there something i need to adjust on shifter? Oil something? Any ideas? Thanks

08-26-2013, 10:37 PM	#2
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: putting it in gear On the end of the shift lever there should be a round ball. Most likeley it is not round. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

08-26-2013, 10:46 PM	#3
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: putting it in gear these are non syncronized trannies, as things need to be churning inside like engine running and gears moving. what you tried with the engine off is possibly normal. as far as driving and having problems shifting thats another story. was the trans serviced with proper oil. clutch adjustment and just overall shifting practices at the proper speeds ot maybe what mike v said

08-26-2013, 10:47 PM	#4
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,158	Re: putting it in gear When the "ball" on the end of the shifter is worn, and the notch in the shifter fork is worn ---along with the detent notches in the rails just shoving the lever towards 2nd can cause it to jam ---I learned to go in the "H" --1st--to n, across the "H",2nd ---after I built up the ball, chose good forks and rails, new springs and balls ---now I can just shove it into 2nd --or any other position without any thought of stopping at "N"

08-26-2013, 10:56 PM	#5
insomniacshotrods Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Carthage, Missouri Posts: 267	Re: putting it in gear Wow ! Thanks for the quick replies guys. I wondered if i had to have it moving ,but it acted just like that when i was driving had alot of trouble going into second. I thought it was just me not ever driving one before. Till it did same thing sitting there and i could go into gear after rattling the shifter. Kurt did you have to pull tranny to do the shifter forks and rails? I guess you welded up the ball and ground it back round? Sorry dont know a darn thing about em yet.

08-26-2013, 11:15 PM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: putting it in gear You only need to remove the top of the tranny (shift lever cover) to weld the ball back round. It should be 1/2".

08-26-2013, 11:20 PM	#8
ctlikon0712 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,609	Re: putting it in gear Check this site out. There are a bunch of excellent articles by Tom Endy. Read through the one about shifter tower rebuild or restore.... It explains much. http://www.ocmafc.org/techarticles.htm __________________ Wanted: Simmons Super Power Head Craig Likon 1931 150B

08-27-2013, 01:03 AM	#9
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,279	Re: putting it in gear Don't over analyze this. Since you stated the car was not running, putting it in gear with the engine not running may sometimes not be easy because the gears are not lined up right, that is the way it was when you stopped and things moved a fraction of an inch. That is the way non-synchro manual transmissions are. Jiggling things back and forth to get it in gear when the engine is stopped is not unusual. Sometimes it slides in, sometimes not. Not to worry. When it is running, the gears will also not shift easily if they are not lined up right. Up shifting does not require double clutching, down shifting normally does. I say normally, because you can eventually learn to shift with no clutch action at all, except when stopped. Your trans sounds OK to me based on what you say. Shifting is easier if the shift ball is dead round, but the A trans will work fine even if it is flat to some degree, not to mention wear on the shift forks. The key test is how much side to side and up and down play is there when it is in gear. More than a few inches means you should look at the ball and forks. But whatever it is, if it works for you, drive it.

08-28-2013, 12:16 AM	#11
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: putting it in gear So, you're an insomniac too! I too, over think EVERYTHING!! Betcha' a dollar to a doughnut that yo' tranny is normal! Drive it & get used to adapting yo' self to the tranny, not the other way around! Soon you will even train yourself to do downshifts from high to second at 30 to 35 MPH, even!! WARNING: learn to do this before venturing into mountainous terrain!! Bill W. (Minerva had REALLY "crisp" shift rail detents & required a nano-second pause in neutral, then "slap" it with an open palm hand into the next gear.) __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 08-28-2013 at 12:33 AM.

08-28-2013, 01:37 PM	#12
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: putting it in gear As already noted when the gears are stationary as with the engine off and car still, one or more gears are often misaligned meaning a tooth on one gear is directly inline with a tooth in the other gear which you are attempting to engage. Obviously they will simply butt each other instead of meshing and slipping in to place. Now as an example, if this occurs when you are attempting to put it in third gear it simply won't go in. Generally you can quickly push the shifter forward and slip it into second. If those gears are not perfectly aligned the second/third sliding gear will rotate slightly and that is enough to allow third gear to engage when you pull the shifter back rearward. Due to the different numbers of teeth on each gear there are occasions when the gear teeth are so well aligned (or misaligned) that the above doesn't work. Placing the transmission in first or second will usually force the counter shaft (cluster) gear to rotate enough to finally engage the desired gear. This isn't all that important in the overall scheme of things but it does explain how and why what you describe is totally normal. __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/