The Ford Barn

doublezo · 07-29-2010, 12:49 PM

im in the process of installing a 51 merc motor into my 49 ford shoebox. the merc has a different pressure plate and flwheel. will the merc stuff fit into the 49 bellhousing? it looks close. thanks. the 49.

the 51

51 pressure plate, 49 bellhousing.

tintoptexan · 07-29-2010, 01:30 PM

Do a google on "ID that Ford Flathead Bellhousing". V8BOB and MOEFUZZ put a lot of information out there that was top notch. I just don't have the link. Check the MSN Flathead Forum or Moe's Garage. I remember it being a pdf along with photos for comparison. Good Luck.

rotorwrench · 07-29-2010, 01:38 PM

The merc stuff is designed for a transmission with a 1 3/8" 10 spline main drive input. It will fit but it won't mach up well with a Long type pressure plate for the smaller transmission main drive input of a 49 to 50 Ford passenger type. That clutch set up is a very good unit for putting an 8BA/8CM block in front of a top loader 3-speed (39-style) for the hot rodders so consider it valuable stuff. You shouldn't have any trouble trading for a Ford Long type clutch if thats what you need.

Kerb
PS: I forgot if you have the late 51 Merc set up it should work OK since they have the smaller trans input. I'm just not sure about the throw out but it should work. The fingers are wider spaced on the Borg & Beck but the Merc throwout might work.

Walt Dupont--Me. · 07-29-2010, 01:51 PM

I think everything will work but i think you will have to use the merc thro out brg. with the Borg and beck pressure plate. Walt

doublezo · 07-29-2010, 02:45 PM

thanks guys. when i bought the motor, i diddnt get the merc bellhousing or trans because i knew i wanted to use my 49 ford trans that is good and fits in my car, clutch arm works, etc. i think the 51 throwout bearing is the same exept for the actual bearing assembly that holds the bearing, i could be wrong. the merc pressure plate is new and i hope it will fit. more input would be great, thanks.

doublezo · 08-11-2010, 06:10 PM

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anymore thoughts on the original question? im getting close and would like to get what i need before i find out it doesnt work.

40 Deluxe · 08-12-2010, 01:10 AM

Simplest and safest would be to use all the Ford pieces (flywheel, pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, bellhousing, starter plate and starter). Just one incompatible part and you get the privilege of doing it all over!

rotorwrench · 08-12-2010, 08:48 AM

40 Deluxe has a point. Plus the Mercury type Borg & Beck clutch stuff is harder to get when its worn out. Ford Long type clutch parts you can still get nearly every supplier of early Ford parts and possibly even some regular auto parts sources.

Mac VP · 08-12-2010, 09:41 AM

The throw-out bearing is might be your boogaboo. The 49 Ford trans had the smaller 1" x 14 spline input shaft. Merc trans input shafts from 1949-50 and early 51's had the larger 1-3/8" x 10 spline input shaft. Because of the differences in the diameters, they used different throw-out bearings.

Since the TO bearings are different, the clutch pressure plates had a corresponding difference in the spacing of the 3 release fingers. So, if your donor Merc clutch was from the early 51's (which it kinda appears from the photo) you would have this problem.

In the late 51 Mercs (and 52 onward) they went with the smaller input shaft/smaller clutch hub spline/smaller throw-out bearing, as used on the Ford clutch.

You don't want to mix the TO bearings in these clutches....bad sounds occur and pretty little shiney flakes of steel result.

doublezo · 08-12-2010, 04:14 PM

thanks again guys. if i have to use the ford stuff i will. the merc stuff is all brand new so i can save some money if it will work. ive measured everything. the ford has a 9 1/2 clutch and the merc a 10. both pressure plates with the clutch discs are the same height. now to macs thought on the throw out bearing. it looks close mac, is this what you are saying to look out for? also, the clutch packs have the same spline. top picture is stock 49 p plate with 49 TO bearing. the bottom pic is merc p plate and 49 ford TO bearing...

Bruce Lancaster · 08-12-2010, 04:28 PM

You have a late '51, then, since splines match and throwout fits. If it had the early setup, spline would be waaay large on Merc and throwout would be way off.

rotorwrench · 08-12-2010, 06:12 PM

The fingers are definitely longer on the late 51 Merc B&B pressure plate compared to all my earlier ones. Looks like it's a close fit to the throw out bearing assembly. Since both Ford & Mercury used the same basic transmission & spline in late 51 it should work. The only other thing might be clearance of the 10 inch B&B pressure plate with the Ford bell housing. You'll just have to put it on & try it.

doublezo · 08-12-2010, 07:28 PM

thanks again for the help. i guess the only thing that looks close is the pressure plate arms to the throwout bearing post. the bel housing is lookin good. i wish i had a for sure answer, but i guess i soon will.

ill let you guys know how it goes.

07-29-2010, 12:49 PM	#1
doublezo Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59	bellhousing question im in the process of installing a 51 merc motor into my 49 ford shoebox. the merc has a different pressure plate and flwheel. will the merc stuff fit into the 49 bellhousing? it looks close. thanks. the 49. the 51 51 pressure plate, 49 bellhousing.

07-29-2010, 01:30 PM	#2
tintoptexan Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granbury, Texas Posts: 66	Re: bellhousing question Do a google on "ID that Ford Flathead Bellhousing". V8BOB and MOEFUZZ put a lot of information out there that was top notch. I just don't have the link. Check the MSN Flathead Forum or Moe's Garage. I remember it being a pdf along with photos for comparison. Good Luck. __________________ Joe.

07-29-2010, 01:38 PM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: bellhousing question The merc stuff is designed for a transmission with a 1 3/8" 10 spline main drive input. It will fit but it won't mach up well with a Long type pressure plate for the smaller transmission main drive input of a 49 to 50 Ford passenger type. That clutch set up is a very good unit for putting an 8BA/8CM block in front of a top loader 3-speed (39-style) for the hot rodders so consider it valuable stuff. You shouldn't have any trouble trading for a Ford Long type clutch if thats what you need. Kerb PS: I forgot if you have the late 51 Merc set up it should work OK since they have the smaller trans input. I'm just not sure about the throw out but it should work. The fingers are wider spaced on the Borg & Beck but the Merc throwout might work. Last edited by rotorwrench; 07-29-2010 at 01:44 PM.

07-29-2010, 01:51 PM	#4
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: bellhousing question I think everything will work but i think you will have to use the merc thro out brg. with the Borg and beck pressure plate. Walt

07-29-2010, 02:45 PM	#5
doublezo Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59	Re: bellhousing question thanks guys. when i bought the motor, i diddnt get the merc bellhousing or trans because i knew i wanted to use my 49 ford trans that is good and fits in my car, clutch arm works, etc. i think the 51 throwout bearing is the same exept for the actual bearing assembly that holds the bearing, i could be wrong. the merc pressure plate is new and i hope it will fit. more input would be great, thanks.

08-11-2010, 06:10 PM	#6
doublezo Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59	Re: bellhousing question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) anymore thoughts on the original question? im getting close and would like to get what i need before i find out it doesnt work.

08-12-2010, 01:10 AM	#7
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: bellhousing question Simplest and safest would be to use all the Ford pieces (flywheel, pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, bellhousing, starter plate and starter). Just one incompatible part and you get the privilege of doing it all over!

08-12-2010, 08:48 AM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: bellhousing question 40 Deluxe has a point. Plus the Mercury type Borg & Beck clutch stuff is harder to get when its worn out. Ford Long type clutch parts you can still get nearly every supplier of early Ford parts and possibly even some regular auto parts sources.

08-12-2010, 09:41 AM	#9
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: bellhousing question The throw-out bearing is might be your boogaboo. The 49 Ford trans had the smaller 1" x 14 spline input shaft. Merc trans input shafts from 1949-50 and early 51's had the larger 1-3/8" x 10 spline input shaft. Because of the differences in the diameters, they used different throw-out bearings. Since the TO bearings are different, the clutch pressure plates had a corresponding difference in the spacing of the 3 release fingers. So, if your donor Merc clutch was from the early 51's (which it kinda appears from the photo) you would have this problem. In the late 51 Mercs (and 52 onward) they went with the smaller input shaft/smaller clutch hub spline/smaller throw-out bearing, as used on the Ford clutch. You don't want to mix the TO bearings in these clutches....bad sounds occur and pretty little shiney flakes of steel result. __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

08-12-2010, 04:14 PM	#10
doublezo Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59	Re: bellhousing question thanks again guys. if i have to use the ford stuff i will. the merc stuff is all brand new so i can save some money if it will work. ive measured everything. the ford has a 9 1/2 clutch and the merc a 10. both pressure plates with the clutch discs are the same height. now to macs thought on the throw out bearing. it looks close mac, is this what you are saying to look out for? also, the clutch packs have the same spline. top picture is stock 49 p plate with 49 TO bearing. the bottom pic is merc p plate and 49 ford TO bearing...

08-12-2010, 04:28 PM	#11
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: bellhousing question You have a late '51, then, since splines match and throwout fits. If it had the early setup, spline would be waaay large on Merc and throwout would be way off.

08-12-2010, 06:12 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: bellhousing question The fingers are definitely longer on the late 51 Merc B&B pressure plate compared to all my earlier ones. Looks like it's a close fit to the throw out bearing assembly. Since both Ford & Mercury used the same basic transmission & spline in late 51 it should work. The only other thing might be clearance of the 10 inch B&B pressure plate with the Ford bell housing. You'll just have to put it on & try it.

08-12-2010, 07:28 PM	#13
doublezo Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59	Re: bellhousing question thanks again for the help. i guess the only thing that looks close is the pressure plate arms to the throwout bearing post. the bel housing is lookin good. i wish i had a for sure answer, but i guess i soon will. ill let you guys know how it goes.