Early 30 Pickup questions

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Hello All,

Just pulled out my Daddy's early 30 pickup after being in storage since 1968. It came out of North Dakota around 1960 and was a barn find at the time. Trying to get it going so he can enjoy driving it again. (he's soon to be 87) This will not be a restoration as time is a factor so getting it mechanically sound is the priority. It is an early 30 (will have to get serial number and include later) Confirming clues are square corner cab, hood, radiator, etc. Transitional items include screw-on radiator cap but it has a 1/4 turn gas cap on the early style tank.

One principal I'd like to stick with is that whatever I do be period correct so later restoration is easier.

What is the best source of information? The Judging Standards I have don't seem to mention pickups very often. Is there a better book or resource for the details?

All the pictures I've seen of "early" 30's have 21" wheels and as a new set of tires is in order I'd like to make sure what is correct. When parked it had a mixture of 1935 16" wheels and 19" later Model A wheels.

Guess that should be enough to get some messages flowing.
Thank you all in advance. I look forward to surprising my Dad in the spring. He has no idea the truck is out of hiding.

[Bob C]

In the Judging Standards for information on the cab look in the AA section.


Bob

[veggie]

DADDY'S pickup

As for the size wheels, all the 30-31 had 19-inch wheels.

Have fun.

[mhsprecher]

Great project. Have fun with it. You are doing it for the best reasons. Nothing to add on what is right and what isn't.

[Stretch Cab]

My early 30 PU is like yours as for the radiator and gas caps. Mine ha 21” wheels and I believe them to be original.

[wrndln]

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Daddysearly 30 pickup & Stretch Cab,
Do your windshield frames look like the pictures in this post? I acquired my windshield frame a long time ago at a swap meet and don't know it history. I am assuming it is for an early 30 AA truck or CCPU (squarish cab) due to the double cut wind defector ends and the 28/29 style windshield slide arm brackets. It is unusual to see a frame like I have. It doesn't look exactly like a 28/29 frame or a 30/31 frame. Note that is had the tube in the top section for a manual wiper. I want to sell it, but am not 100% sure what it fits. The frame is in excellent condition - no rust-thrus.
Rusty Nelson

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Hi Stretch Cab,
So yours has the early style gas tank with later style gas cap? Interesting it has the 21 inch wheels. I'm sure Henry used everything up that he could and lots of variations exist. Makes these things so much more interesting.
Thank you for responding.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by Daddysearly30pickup

Hello All, It is an early 30 (will have to get serial number and include later) Confirming clues are square corner cab, hood, radiator, etc. Transitional items include screw-on radiator cap but it has a 1/4 turn gas cap on the early style tank.

One principal I'd like to stick with is that whatever I do be period correct so later restoration is easier.

What is the best source of information? The Judging Standards I have don't seem to mention pickups very often. Is there a better book or resource for the details?

All the pictures I've seen of "early" 30's have 21" wheels and as a new set of tires is in order I'd like to make sure what is correct.

FYI - A and AA commercial vehicles used 82-A closed cabs into June 1930 (so into mid 1930). June 1930 the 82-B closed cabs started production.


The A chassis had 19" wheels starting January 1930.

[Stretch Cab]

Here is a picture of my truck in the color my daughter requested. Son in law at the wheel. The truck has been in the family for almost 49 years. It came off a nearby farm.

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Looks nice,
Will email pics of the one I'm working on. Mine has front fenders with a rib down the side but smooth on the front. Is this what is referred to as an "eyebrow" fender in the Judging Standards?
Thank you

[ryanheacox]

I believe the "eyebrow" fenders have the rib all the way around the front. A club member has an early '30 Cabriolet that has those fenders. I am pretty sure he said they were used on the Cabriolet and Pickups.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by Daddysearly30pickup

Looks nice,
Will email pics of the one I'm working on. Mine has front fenders with a rib down the side but smooth on the front. Is this what is referred to as an "eyebrow" fender in the Judging Standards?
Thank you

Your vehicle has the 82-A cab and therefore came with the sheet metal (shell, hood, fenders, aprons, shields) as used on 1929 vehicles. Your front fenders should be the design 4 (April 1929 - June 1930) fenders - see https://aafords.com/aa-chassis/aa-16000-fenders/#s1ff


Note that this is an AA truck site. But your front fenders were used on both the A and AA chassis.

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Good morning All,
Some additional questions.
Where can I find correct paint codes for Rock Moss Green and the Black used for Model A's?

Are there dimensions available for pickup floor boards?

Was there a wood frame under the seat springs?

For a November 1929 pickup, what is the correct bumper? Currently mine has the straight variety.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thank you

[Joe K]

The paint codes are referenced at any of the paint sources commonly used for automobiles - but accuracy may be better served by getting a paint chip chart from the Model A suppliers and having it "scanned." You can compare the results with the scan/code the interchange offers and decide which to your eye looks closer to the paint chip. The paint chip IS the standard for judging.

The floor boards are the same floor boards used for any Model A of that time period. These are available in plywood from any of the Model A sources - although for your pickup you MAY have had floorboards constructed using the (so called) "Linderman" construction which is usually maple strips, joined together using an unusual dovetail arrangement (Ford's way of using up scraps of wood it is thought.) The plywood work fine, are covered by floor mats anyway, and for your late 29 pickup may have been original.

Dimensions of the floor boards for DIY construction are shown in "How to Restore Your Model A" book, I think 7th installment, but you can look up ALL the articles at the online index at https://www.mafca.com/downloads/Inde...2Index-all.pdf. The books run about $15 each and provide valuable detail information and techniques for restoring your car.

The lower seat spring frame for the 82A pickup is a metal frame with one (I believe) wood stretcher side to side on the incline. The wood stretcher is screwed to the frame using four (total) round head wood screws and the frame is riveted to the floor of the cab. The metal frame is reproduced.

The seat back is wood strips and bolts to the cab back and lower frame of the seat. The seat backs are available as a "kit" although the design is simple and if you have a pix and a tablesaw you can make your own. There are unusual "clips" for holding the seat spring which were (at least on mine) designed to "puncture" the seat back fabric at the bottom and catch style retainers on the top.

The correct bumper is the 28-29 pattern with the extra "curve" at the ends but otherwise straight. For the pickup almost always no rear bumper or even the frame to carry it.

Another book on the Model A which for you is a MUST HAVE is "Restoring the Model A Pickup" by Mack Hils. Can be bought online from the various Model A sources but one is at https://www.amazon.com/Restoring-Mod.../dp/B003LDQX86

Hope this helps. Model A parts make MOST EXCELLENT Christmas gifts to the wife.

Joe K

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Neil Wilson

FYI - A and AA commercial vehicles used 82-A closed cabs into June 1930 (so into mid 1930). June 1930 the 82-B closed cabs started production.


The A chassis had 19" wheels starting January 1930.

Neil is correct. Please listen to Neil. Trucks were treated differently in the changeover from the 28-29 model details to the 30-31 details, by about 6 months.

Priority was given to cars.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Daddysearly30pickup

Good morning All,
Some additional questions.
Where can I find correct paint codes for Rock Moss Green and the Black used for Model A's?

Are there dimensions available for pickup floor boards?

Was there a wood frame under the seat springs?

For a November 1929 pickup, what is the correct bumper? Currently mine has the straight variety.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thank you

Instead of painting things, the truck may look better with the patina of an unrestored vehicle. It can be mechanically very sound and reliable, but still look like an old barn find. Something to consider.

You really should get a copy of the Restoration Guidelines. They will answer most of your questions. This book is not just for people that are restoring a vehicle for fine-point judging. They are for anyone, like you, that wants to try to keep things as correct as possible, without going crazy.

[Joe K]

Plus 1 on Jim/GA.

Another aspect is that the truck line is where Ford frequently "used up" parts which were "blems" or non-acceptable to the car line. It is thought the black radiator shell are "painted over" nickle shells where the plating was imperfect.

Also finding black painted dash escutcheon (surround around the speedo & gas gauge) and black e-brake levers and gearshift levers.

The painted finish on truck body parts was not nearly as much "rubbed out" and modern "grape peel" and other surface defects was not addressed. If the body showed color it was considered "good enough for a truck" by many of the assembly plants.

I've thought that 76A (RPU) and 82A (CC pu) were very much sent out as "body kits" to the remote assembly plants - and put on loose chassis and sold as "commercial" units. It may be possible that a truck COULD have a "black nose" and a green body as coming from this assembly sequence.

GE (General Electric) bought a fleet of service trucks which were made up in this manner - black nose and white bodies with the GE Logo.

So in many ways trucks are "less demanding' in restoration and the "afterthought" and the commercial use and origin of many trucks gives more freedom to the restorer.

Joe K

[Pickupman]

"Another aspect is that the truck line is where Ford frequently "used up" parts which were "blems" or non-acceptable to the car line."

Joe, where can I find this documented information? Thanks!

[Joe K]

I'm not sure it is documented, but check all the trucks you see henceforth and ask the owner if they have found blem under the paint, or to their knowledge are the paint parts I mention "original."

I'm not sure the Judging Standards has ponied up to bar on this subject either - its only been in the last two revisions where the "permissive window" on changes for trucks has been widened to 6 months.

Hard to imagine a farm truck would bother to repaint a gearshift lever just because the nickle plating got a little rusty.

And I have found gearshift levers painted, apparently original, that were in better shape than another in the same pile which probably started it's life as butler finish. For a number of reason nickle plating on Model As are not the most durable. Paint much more so.

Joe K

[29closedcabguy]

Floor board pdf plans can be obtained here. http://www.stevewatrous.com/modelaford.html

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Hello,
Just catching up on messages after the Christmas holidays.
Thank you for the link. Very detailed and easy to follow. I have some birch plywood that should work well for this.
Tal

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Hello,
Just catching up on messages after the Christmas holidays.
Thank you for the link. Very detailed and easy to follow. I have some birch plywood that should work well for this.
Tal

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Initial photos of the pickup. Been in storage since October 1968. Was in mid-repair/renovation (not quite restoration) and I rode in it one time when I was 7. Other than a general going-over it shouldn't take much to get her going again. Will post others as it transforms.

[Brentwood Bob]

The early brake drums are not compatible with the 19 inch rims. The drum profile under the studs does not adequately support the wheel hub and stress cracks form.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

The early brake drums are not compatible with the 19 inch rims. The drum profile under the studs does not adequately support the wheel hub and stress cracks form.

Bob,

I am not sure why you posted this or what you are trying to say. Am I missing something? Did you mean to say 16 inch rims (as shown in Post #23) instead of 19, if so it makes sense. All Model A drums are compatible with both the 19 and 21 inch rims except the early (which his is not) '28 drums and wheels which are not compatible (interchangeable) with any of the later ones. If I am wrong someone please correct me.

Were you trying to say the later rims shown in Post #23 ('40-'48) and not compatible with the mechanical brake drums? They definitely are not compatible and this is a serious safety issue. The bolt pattern is the same and they will appear to bolt on but the humps on the Model A mechanical brake drums will keep the rim from seating correctly and could potentially cause the wheel to fail and come off. The problem with running the wire wheels on '40-'48 drums/hubs is discussed here: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=1#post1286293 You will need to visualize what will happen running the later rims on the mechanical brake drums.

Charlie Stephens

[Daddysearly30pickup]

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Hello,
For clarity the wheels shown were only used to roll the pickup out of the shed, onto a trailer and unload into a shop. It will have a set of proper spoke wheels on it very shortly.

It is good to point out the safety concern and I appreciate it.

Thank you

[Brentwood Bob]

I remember seeing a comparison showing that the early brake drum profile (21) is not the same as the later (19) and stress cracks can form in the inner hub of the 21 inch rims.

[Brentwood Bob]

Service Bulletins, pg. 328.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Morning...You might want to consider dropping the pan and cleaning it out and checking to make sure the oil pump is not clogged. Put some Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders a couple of days before you try to turn the engine over with a crank with the plugs out...many a good engine has been damaged by someone attempting to start it without doing a basic cleaning...You might also wish to re-pack the wheel bearings as they will be dry and full of sludge...Enjoy...Ernie in Arizona

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Happy New Year Ernie!
Good advice. Engine had about a half gallon of oil poured in it when parked in '68 and has been turned over at least annually ever since. It has compression so no stuck valves which is a good thing. Pulling pan Friday morning. I'm sure it was running non-detergent oil and needs cleaning out prior to switching over. Marvel Mystery Oil is good stuff! I expect turning it over with plugs out to sling new oil around is also a healthy move.
Thank you for the post.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Service Bulletins, pg. 328.

The bulletin on page 328 is from March, 1929, when they were warning dealers not to mix the mid-1928 and later wheels (from cars that had a separate parking brake band in the rear wheels) with an early-1928 car that has the parking brake actuate the service brake shoes on all 4 wheels. And not to mix the other way around either.

Remember, the extra step was added to the rear drums so that the parking brake has a place to rub against? That made the drum a bit wider. So the center part of the wheels had to be made a bit deeper to fit right. This happened around mid-1928 to late-1928. (These are all 21" wheels we are talking about.)

Once you have the late-1928-and-later brake drums, with the separate parking brake and the deeper wheel centers to accommodate them, then any 1929-1931 or later wheel works just fine.

Luckily the number of early-1928 cars and trucks produced was a bit limited, so you don't see these early wheels and drums very often. But when you do, don't mix brake parts with parts from later cars.

[Brentwood Bob]

Thanks jim, now the service bulletins, pg 328, makes sense.

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Good morning to those who are following this thread.

IT'S ALIVE!!!

The past two days have been very productive. Engine pan was pulled and cleaned (baffle removed thanks to a 6 second YouTube video). Side plate removed and cleaned, all the while soaking pistons in Marvel Mystery Oil. Will post some pictures shortly. Cleaned points and plugs, installed new condenser and points cam as old one was rusty. Installed distributor and set timing. Carburetor that was rebuilt by my friend was installed next, along with choke rod, etc. Spun the engine over to pick up some oil. Used a temporary gas tank and after locating a short from the coil wire to another, she fired right up! It blew 51 years of acorns, dust and rust from the exhaust pipe and after maybe 10 seconds of fast idle, ran perfectly at idle. After marveling at this for a minute we shut her down and my friend said "see if she will start with the crank", so with spark retarded one quarter turn of the crank was all it took to start her again! Once the Marvel Mystery Oil burned off there was no smoke or noise. I think we're in business. I have to admit wiping a tear when she started. Remember the last I hear her run I was 7 and my Dad 35, in 1968. He's going to be so surprised!

By the way, this engine has less than 500 miles since new. Serial number is A4849079. I believe I located the pickup's original engine in the barn, if correct it places this pickup at February 1930. Will confirm with my dad later. Might also lift the cab when gas tank is removed to see number on frame.

Now come the brakes. This will include getting cast iron drums and getting my brake arcing machine going. (which at the time of acquisition my wife questioned "why do you want that?, to which I replied "I might need it someday." Guess that day is coming soon.)

Safety Note

As many of you post notes pertaining to safety, here's my tip of the day. There was at least a quarter turn of play in the steering wheel. While working under the engine it was noticed that the drag link plug was missing its cotter pin and the plug was backed out significantly. This must have been in this state during my one and only ride in '68. Glad it didn't come lose then or you might not be reading this now. We tightened it up and now have less than 1/8 of a turn of play. Big improvement and I'm sure there's more to be gained. The moral of the story, don't assume and check out everything before hitting the road.

Thanks again to all who have provided tips and inspiration.

[Daddysearly30pickup]

Just created an album and posted additional pictures. Enjoy!

[katy]

installed new condenser and points cam as old one was rusty

I'd suggest that you check the surface of the new points cam to be sure that it's as smooth as glass. 2 years ago I put a new points cam in and didn't inspect it, expecting it to be smooth, it wasn't. It wore down the rubbing block on the points in about 25 miles.
YMMV

[ryanheacox]

Nice! Sounds like you've got a good runner there. That engine in the truck now is actually post A production, March '32 according to the serial number. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

[Nasukau]

That pickup body is beautiful the way it is! Heck just make sure it is safe to drive and then start enjoying all the time you get with your father and that pickup cruising around.


Denny

[Daddysearly30pickup]

I see in How to Restore Your Model A, Volume 2, page 23, a fixture for painting wheels.

Is this the latest and greatest idea to date? If not, would someone please send information on what that is.

If so, would someone please send information on construction?

Thank you