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Old 12-01-2021, 03:08 PM   #1
steve hackel
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Default Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

With the delivery of the new engine just weeks away, I am making a
suggestion to any of the vendors that would be willing to create a new
"Burtz engine" page within their catalog? In order to complete my new
engine, I need to purchase all of the additional items necessary for the
completion and assembly, and what better way to do this than to get

the majority of the parts needed (or all the parts if available) from one
source. Eventually one of them will, and the first one to respond to
this newest challenge will probably get a lot of additional sales to accompany
the Burtz parts needed. Anyone care to second this suggestion? Thanks
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Old 12-01-2021, 03:37 PM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
With the delivery of the new engine just weeks away, I am making a
suggestion to any of the vendors that would be willing to create a new
"Burtz engine" page within their catalog? In order to complete my new
engine, I need to purchase all of the additional items necessary for the
completion and assembly, and what better way to do this than to get

the majority of the parts needed (or all the parts if available) from one
source. Eventually one of them will, and the first one to respond to
this newest challenge will probably get a lot of additional sales to accompany
the Burtz parts needed. Anyone care to second this suggestion? Thanks
While I definitely do not have an issue with that, I'm not sure how much of a value that would be since everyone will likely have different needs. Think about how that idea would be on a transmission or brake rebuilding. Making a list of all brake components necessary for a rebuild might be unnecessary for most customers due to the unknowns about what components will be re-used. I am an engine rebuilder however most of my customer's engine need different components where a list would not be all that helpful.
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Old 12-01-2021, 05:16 PM   #3
steve hackel
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Hi Brent ; sorry, but you're misinterpreting my original intention of the post - the other side of the same coin. True, wants and needs nay be different, but everyone's needs will initially be the same... rod and main bearings, pistons and rings, seats - gaskets - miscellaneous small stuff, and on & on. Unless going with an OHV system, every engine will need a new valve train & lifters, a new timing and crank gear - going with over sized intakes - then you will be discussing that with your machines etc. What ever you happen to have on hand you don't need to buy. "But"
My experience ia as follows: locally we have Advanced, Auto Zone, O'Rileys and others, of which I stopped at 2 with my Burtz' list of part numbers. I gavevtge counter people the correct part numbers but was told they can't look up the "parts" by number without knowing what year, make and model car the rod gearing are for.....
I can't tell them it's for a 2022 Burtz engine!
My only point was to eliminate some of the issues by buying the majority ifcwgat you would be needing for the initial build, and no auto parts store will have access to an A' gasket set.
It was just a suggestion for those of us who will eventually be "auto parts store" challenged ��
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Old 12-01-2021, 05:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

The kids working at those package auto parts places are not someone i would wish to rely on. The other side of this coin is your BURTZ idea should create his own web page, and get suppliers to advertise there to get the needed parts.
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:03 PM   #5
Dan McEachern
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

It would seem to be better to start a thread on Ford Barn dedicated to those building a motor with a Burtz kit. That way there would be one dedicated place for info to be shared- weather it is sources for parts or details regarding the build itself. We discussed this same topic at a recent NorCal FAST meeting a week ago.
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

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All the great , but old, parts guys are now long gone and we're all stuck with the person (?)
Standing behind the counter arguing with us about the so called information they need to look up the parts. I was just offering a suggestion and trying to help out. Oh well..... ��
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
Hi Brent ; sorry, but you're misinterpreting my original intention of the post - the other side of the same coin. True, wants and needs nay be different, but everyone's needs will initially be the same... rod and main bearings, pistons and rings, seats - gaskets - miscellaneous small stuff, and on & on.

It was just a suggestion for those of us who will eventually be "auto parts store" challenged ��
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McEachern View Post
It would seem to be better to start a thread on Ford Barn dedicated to those building a motor with a Burtz kit. That way there would be one dedicated place for info to be shared- weather it is sources for parts or details regarding the build itself. We discussed this same topic at a recent NorCal FAST meeting a week ago.

Maybe I am still amiss on this. IMO Terry has done a great job of outlining this on his own website. Maybe y'all could talk his webmaster into creating a forum on his site that can be closely monitored by him so that he can 'sign-off on' or approve whatever is being discussed by assemblers and customers.

My reasoning is, -as we all know, so often misinformation is posted all over the internet and it often becomes difficult to discern what is correct/factual or not. Again, having all of this information posted on Terry's website would seem to be the most prudent place to gain factual info and make suggestions.
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

In my opinion, the Burtz engine kit plus standardized long block & short block build versions need to offered by some engine rebuildlers.
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Bob has a good point. There many Model A people who would like a new engine and only a few who can build one. A moderate build with a set price could well sell quite a few engines. Ernie in Arizona
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Old 12-02-2021, 11:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

The Burtz ad in SOSS pretty much describes the parts and pieces necessary to put together an engine. To Bob from Northpoint, doubt if the “kids” at O’Rielly’s will even know what a a Burtz engine is!
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Old 12-02-2021, 02:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Steve,
I second your concept. Basically a Burtz based short block. I was looking at building one and the first things you need to do is fit the bearing inserts, fit a set of pistons, check the gap on the rings, collect the gaskets, etc. Seems that there is a universal starting point regardless of eventual build. Unlike OHV V-8"s, these engines will almost universally use the same cast pistons regardless of compression ratio. I could see the options including choice of cam, cam gear materials and a couple others items but the base short block would be the same build for a huge percentage of the builds.
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Old 12-02-2021, 11:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Initially I posted the comments to try and help others with some of the short comings
I have run into in the very beginning of my searching. The information that Terry has supplied each of us is correct and easy enough to follow, but the problem is in the process of how you do your searching. I'm sure that through Amazon or Ebay you can punch in the bearing or seal numbers and get a response, but auto parts stores just don't have that ability. My only purpose was to suggest that a centralized source for

the specific parts you need to build your "Burtz" would be from a Brattons, or Berts, or another parts supplier , and along the way order the gaskets, oil pan drain plug, timing gear or crank gear, valves etc..... I wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel,

or create any specific controversy over the issue of someone like Brattons offering
everything one might need to assemble their own engine. A complete short block
wasn't exactly my initial intent - but it's not exactly a bad idea ! Thanks again.
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Old 12-03-2021, 12:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Maybe I am still amiss on this. IMO Terry has done a great job of outlining this on his own website. Maybe y'all could talk his webmaster into creating a forum on his site that can be closely monitored by him so that he can 'sign-off on' or approve whatever is being discussed by assemblers and customers.

My reasoning is, -as we all know, so often misinformation is posted all over the internet and it often becomes difficult to discern what is correct/factual or not. Again, having all of this information posted on Terry's website would seem to be the most prudent place to gain factual info and make suggestions.
I don't necessarily agree with this. Terry probably has enough to do without what I could see becoming a full-time job babysitting a website. I think he would be overwhelmed. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-03-2021, 07:42 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

I talked to Matt at Berts yesterday, he said they have a complete engine for sale now.
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

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I don't necessarily agree with this. Terry probably has enough to do without what I could see becoming a full-time job babysitting a website. I think he would be overwhelmed. Just my opinion.
That is fine. And to add a FWIW, Terry could have it set-up on his site and then appoint a volunteer moderator or administrator to handle the 'baby-sitting' to better manage his time.

My reasoning of why it should be hosted on his website is several-fold. To begin with, having it hosted on his own site becomes the 'Official' site of information. If there is random info on this site, VFForum, and multiple other locations on social media, there is always the likelihood of conflicting information that may, -or may not be factual. Now instead of Terry just needing to monitor/correct his own forum, he now has more locations than fingers on his one hand that he must monitor. If he doesn't have the time to monitor his own site, -then he definitely would not have the time to monitor multiple sites. Maybe your view is different in this??

It should also be worth noting that there seemingly is not any respect for only providing accurate or factual information on the internet any longer. I continually read posts on social media's Model-A pages that are blatantly incorrect, ...and these writers will continually argue even when substantiating documentation is presented that counters their posted information. For that reason alone, if I had a product that I felt my investment needed to be protected by only having factual information being distributed to a potential or existing customer, I definitely would not rely on any site other than a site that I had total control over. To my knowledge, the only site that Terry would have that type of control would be his own site.
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Old 12-03-2021, 02:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
That is fine. And to add a FWIW, Terry could have it set-up on his site and then appoint a volunteer moderator or administrator to handle the 'baby-sitting' to better manage his time.

My reasoning of why it should be hosted on his website is several-fold. To begin with, having it hosted on his own site becomes the 'Official' site of information. If there is random info on this site, VFForum, and multiple other locations on social media, there is always the likelihood of conflicting information that may, -or may not be factual. Now instead of Terry just needing to monitor/correct his own forum, he now has more locations than fingers on his one hand that he must monitor. If he doesn't have the time to monitor his own site, -then he definitely would not have the time to monitor multiple sites. Maybe your view is different in this??

It should also be worth noting that there seemingly is not any respect for only providing accurate or factual information on the internet any longer. I continually read posts on social media's Model-A pages that are blatantly incorrect, ...and these writers will continually argue even when substantiating documentation is presented that counters their posted information. For that reason alone, if I had a product that I felt my investment needed to be protected by only having factual information being distributed to a potential or existing customer, I definitely would not rely on any site other than a site that I had total control over. To my knowledge, the only site that Terry would have that type of control would be his own site.
I would like to agree but you simply can't control every situation that may arise, even with what you are suggesting. This would be like trying to control a herd a of cats. I think anyone contemplating putting one of Terry's engines together or rebuilding any other engine would do well to meticulously do his research to find the best rebuilder he can possibly find. Terry or no Terry, any issues that develop will ultimately end up getting resolved by the builder. Over time, if issues do arise there will discussions here and other places and at that time, I suspect Terry would address them. After all he has been through to get this far, I trust he will do whatever is right.
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Old 12-04-2021, 01:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

All the above is true, and there is a lot of truth in what Brent said above, but consider the fact that Terry might not want to be the moderator of a website.
I would imagine his hair is still on fire with regard to finally having his engine project off the ground and running. Only Terry can decide that. Would it be usefull? no doubt yes, but if not then I imagine other solutions will come to life. At least this is a discussion to address the need. Sorry its drifting from a supplier of a "parts kit" for the "engine kit".
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Old 12-04-2021, 03:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

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Originally Posted by Dan McEachern View Post
All the above is true, and there is a lot of truth in what Brent said above, but consider the fact that Terry might not want to be the moderator of a website.
I would imagine his hair is still on fire with regard to finally having his engine project off the ground and running. Only Terry can decide that. Would it be usefull? no doubt yes, but if not then I imagine other solutions will come to life. At least this is a discussion to address the need. Sorry its drifting from a supplier of a "parts kit" for the "engine kit".
Amen. I plead guilty.
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Old 12-05-2021, 05:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

There is a Facebook group 'The Burtz Ford Model A Engine'. It was originally an Australian site but has now been changed to all comers. It has the list of parts required from Snyders.
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Old 12-05-2021, 09:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bert's, Bratton's, Snyders... How about a "Burtz" enging page

Quote:
Originally Posted by brent in 10-uh-c View Post
that is fine. And to add a fwiw, terry could have it set-up on his site and then appoint a volunteer moderator or administrator to handle the 'baby-sitting' to better manage his time.

My reasoning of why it should be hosted on his website is several-fold. To begin with, having it hosted on his own site becomes the 'official' site of information. If there is random info on this site, vfforum, and multiple other locations on social media, there is always the likelihood of conflicting information that may, -or may not be factual. Now instead of terry just needing to monitor/correct his own forum, he now has more locations than fingers on his one hand that he must monitor. If he doesn't have the time to monitor his own site, -then he definitely would not have the time to monitor multiple sites. Maybe your view is different in this??

It should also be worth noting that there seemingly is not any respect for only providing accurate or factual information on the internet any longer. I continually read posts on social media's model-a pages that are blatantly incorrect, ...and these writers will continually argue even when substantiating documentation is presented that counters their posted information. For that reason alone, if i had a product that i felt my investment needed to be protected by only having factual information being distributed to a potential or existing customer, i definitely would not rely on any site other than a site that i had total control over. To my knowledge, the only site that terry would have that type of control would be his own site.

bingo
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