The Ford Barn

Alaska Jim · 06-01-2018, 05:34 PM

Can anyone tell me if the 49-50 Ford 3 speed o/d transmission the same as the 49-very early 51 Mercury transmission. I have an extra one here that I have been saving for years, and It Looks exactly like the one in my '51 Mercury . Both the one sitting in the shop and the one in the car have the built in round front case. Thanks- Jim

tubman · 06-01-2018, 05:43 PM

Both of yours are Mercury. All Fords '49-53 look about the same externally; that is, no integral bell. There were significant internal changes made between '50 and '51.

Bob C · 06-01-2018, 05:49 PM

These are from Vanpelts site.

Bob

Alaska Jim · 06-01-2018, 06:05 PM

Thanks Tubman, It has been so long since I have been around a shoebox, that I could not remember. The last early ford ( kind of early ) trans I changed out was a '53 about 40 years ago. The trans in my '51 Merc. is acting up, so I may open up the one here on the shop floor, and rebuild it if it needs it, and swap them out. I had not driven the car in about a year, but took it out 2 days ago, and it would not slip into o/d , all the way to town. ( about 7 miles ) on the way back it started acting normal. Yesterday I went to take it on a 80 mile round trip, and barely made it around the block. I let up for it to shift into 2nd o/d an the car started shuddering and making all kinds of noise. as soon as I applied more throttle and accelerated. the noise went away, but then I let up again, and I got a screeching scrapping noise. I was only doing about 30mph, so turned the corner headed back up the driveway and shut it off. Wife wanted to know why I was back already, I started the car up show show her the noise it was making, but all was quiet, so I took it around the block again, and it would not shift into o/d. and did not make any noise. To me, it seems as if something in the planetary, or the one way clutch ( sprag ) is sticking. There is definitely a problem. It is parked for now, as I do not have a lift, and my back and hip are really acting up. I will have to get my manual out and get to checking when I have time, and feel better. I think I remember the manual saying something about having to remove the front seat, carpet, and a floor plate to remove the trans. I hope not. any way, thanks for the info.---Jim

Alaska Jim · 06-01-2018, 06:08 PM

Bob C, Thank you, I have not looked at van Pelts site yet, to check into the differences.

40cpe · 06-01-2018, 08:25 PM

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It has the symptoms of the sun/planetary gears frozen. That typically happens when it is run low on grease.

Alaska Jim · 06-01-2018, 10:15 PM

40cpe, I thought of that, but it is full. It has never been run low in the 24 years I have owned it. just changed fluid in the Diff., and trans/o/d unit a year ago. I wonder if draining it again, and adding a little Marvel mystery oil or ATF in it would help. I really do not want to pull the trans., but will if I have to. That will be later towards fall. I have a DR. Appt. to have my hip looked at on the 11th, may have to have a replacement.

rotorwrench · 06-02-2018, 08:03 AM

Mercury cars changed over to the narrow Borg Warner pattern around February of 1951. The early ones still had the half bell and the 1 3/8" 10-spline input. 1951 was a change over year for all Ford transmissions. They use an improved gear tooth profile referred to as the diamond shape on all the gears. This change allowed FoMoCo to use the same basic transmission for the Mercury as they used on the Ford cars but the Mercury still had a heavier bell housing and a Borg & Beck clutch.

As far as the problem you encountered, don't be too surprised. These old transmissions can wear out and parts can fail. They are more complex than the non overdrive transmissions so a lot more can happen inside there. What you describe is not going to get better so plan on taking it out for service at some point or lock it out and drive without OD if it still will.

40 Deluxe · 06-02-2018, 09:18 AM

This may be stating the obvious, but the O/D unit has its own fill/check plug.

Alaska Jim · 06-02-2018, 05:52 PM

Rotorwrench, thanks for the info., I appreciate it. I know the trans is going to have to come out at some point. I will lock out the o/d and see if there are any apparent problems that would keep me from driving it a little this summer. If it works, fine , if not well, I have enjoyed this car for many years, and it will get repaired correctly over the winter, or next spring.

Alaska Jim · 06-02-2018, 05:54 PM

40 Deluxe, thank you for the reminder, but I was aware of the separate fill and drain plugs for the o/d section. Thank you.

06-01-2018, 05:34 PM	#1
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	o/d transmission Can anyone tell me if the 49-50 Ford 3 speed o/d transmission the same as the 49-very early 51 Mercury transmission. I have an extra one here that I have been saving for years, and It Looks exactly like the one in my '51 Mercury . Both the one sitting in the shop and the one in the car have the built in round front case. Thanks- Jim

06-01-2018, 05:43 PM	#2
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,304	Re: o/d transmission Both of yours are Mercury. All Fords '49-53 look about the same externally; that is, no integral bell. There were significant internal changes made between '50 and '51.

06-01-2018, 06:05 PM	#4
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: o/d transmission Thanks Tubman, It has been so long since I have been around a shoebox, that I could not remember. The last early ford ( kind of early ) trans I changed out was a '53 about 40 years ago. The trans in my '51 Merc. is acting up, so I may open up the one here on the shop floor, and rebuild it if it needs it, and swap them out. I had not driven the car in about a year, but took it out 2 days ago, and it would not slip into o/d , all the way to town. ( about 7 miles ) on the way back it started acting normal. Yesterday I went to take it on a 80 mile round trip, and barely made it around the block. I let up for it to shift into 2nd o/d an the car started shuddering and making all kinds of noise. as soon as I applied more throttle and accelerated. the noise went away, but then I let up again, and I got a screeching scrapping noise. I was only doing about 30mph, so turned the corner headed back up the driveway and shut it off. Wife wanted to know why I was back already, I started the car up show show her the noise it was making, but all was quiet, so I took it around the block again, and it would not shift into o/d. and did not make any noise. To me, it seems as if something in the planetary, or the one way clutch ( sprag ) is sticking. There is definitely a problem. It is parked for now, as I do not have a lift, and my back and hip are really acting up. I will have to get my manual out and get to checking when I have time, and feel better. I think I remember the manual saying something about having to remove the front seat, carpet, and a floor plate to remove the trans. I hope not. any way, thanks for the info.---Jim

06-01-2018, 06:08 PM	#5
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: o/d transmission Bob C, Thank you, I have not looked at van Pelts site yet, to check into the differences.

06-01-2018, 08:25 PM	#6
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: o/d transmission Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) It has the symptoms of the sun/planetary gears frozen. That typically happens when it is run low on grease.

06-01-2018, 10:15 PM	#7
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: o/d transmission 40cpe, I thought of that, but it is full. It has never been run low in the 24 years I have owned it. just changed fluid in the Diff., and trans/o/d unit a year ago. I wonder if draining it again, and adding a little Marvel mystery oil or ATF in it would help. I really do not want to pull the trans., but will if I have to. That will be later towards fall. I have a DR. Appt. to have my hip looked at on the 11th, may have to have a replacement.

06-02-2018, 08:03 AM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: o/d transmission Mercury cars changed over to the narrow Borg Warner pattern around February of 1951. The early ones still had the half bell and the 1 3/8" 10-spline input. 1951 was a change over year for all Ford transmissions. They use an improved gear tooth profile referred to as the diamond shape on all the gears. This change allowed FoMoCo to use the same basic transmission for the Mercury as they used on the Ford cars but the Mercury still had a heavier bell housing and a Borg & Beck clutch. As far as the problem you encountered, don't be too surprised. These old transmissions can wear out and parts can fail. They are more complex than the non overdrive transmissions so a lot more can happen inside there. What you describe is not going to get better so plan on taking it out for service at some point or lock it out and drive without OD if it still will.

06-02-2018, 09:18 AM	#9
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: o/d transmission This may be stating the obvious, but the O/D unit has its own fill/check plug.

06-02-2018, 05:52 PM	#10
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: o/d transmission Rotorwrench, thanks for the info., I appreciate it. I know the trans is going to have to come out at some point. I will lock out the o/d and see if there are any apparent problems that would keep me from driving it a little this summer. If it works, fine , if not well, I have enjoyed this car for many years, and it will get repaired correctly over the winter, or next spring.

06-02-2018, 05:54 PM	#11
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: o/d transmission 40 Deluxe, thank you for the reminder, but I was aware of the separate fill and drain plugs for the o/d section. Thank you.