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Old 01-12-2022, 10:27 AM   #1
Leadfoot4U
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Default Knowing left from right??

I'm running into this with reproduced parts and wondering if others have found this to be true.......overseas manufacturers don't know their left from their right?

I've got mechanical brakes on my 34 Ford and have no intention to deviate from them. Finding NOS parts are practically out of the question now, so relying on what's in the market is where we have to go. Doing a complete restoration requires replacing many old/worn out parts. One such part are the rear camshaft levers. In order to replace the right camshaft bushing, my only alternative was to destroy the original lever in removal. I purchased a right side lever from a repudiable online seller and have found the lever fits the left side and not the right. The angle of the brake rod clevis attachment is to the outside of the frame, not toward the cross shaft that's centered within the frame.





I know Model A camshaft levers will fit a 34, so I purchased a pair from a different repudiable online seller and the images show what I got. They too are marked opposite of what they should be. The clevis ends are bent outward, away from the center of the car when matching the marked right lever to the right side of the car.



These parts are sold as Ford Official Licensed Product, but I think Henry knew his left from his right!!



Notice the label "Made in Taiwan"......enough said!

The fact both Model A and 34 levers have this same problem, AND I ran into this same Left means Right issue with the reproduction king pin set I purchased........the left marked king pin fits the right side of the car. It's buyer beware for not only the user, but for the seller as well.
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Old 01-12-2022, 11:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

With respect, what are shown in your photos are not parts original to the rear brakes of a 1934 Ford. The rear arms or levers were B-2235 and B-2236 on '32-'34 passenger car and commercial chassis rear brakes. They only have a slight offset at the clevis end and were pointed downward in their installed positions. The A-2235 and 2236 levers in your photos were originally installed in an upward position. Their 90 degree offset at the clevis end is unique to Model A rear brakes.

Accordingly, the Model A levers shown in your photos are correctly labeled R and L. Whomever advised you that the A levers were usable on '32-'34 rear brakes was mistaken. The manufacturers of the levers in your photos have it right.
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Old 01-12-2022, 01:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

I stand corrected regarding the Model A camshaft lever positioning. I didn't realize they are positioned upright on the camshaft rather than downward as the 34. Turning them up, the angle of the clevis is correct.

However, the black painted lever in the first couple of images are the reproduced 33/34 camshaft lever for the right side (as marked by the printed RH on the shaft). It has the same angle as the Model A lever. Unless I'm also mistaken regarding the position of the lever for the 34 (which has the lever turned down), the clevis angle is not correct for the brake rod to travel to the center cross shaft. I'm basing my opinion of the lever pointing down for the 33/34 from what was originally on the car and illustrations of the brake parts of a 33/34.

Again, I'm sorry to mislead those Model A owners who know their cars better than I. But I still have an issue with the mismarked reproduced parts for the 33/34 camshaft levers and their reproduced king pin spindle.
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Old 01-12-2022, 01:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Once again, with respect, your black painted lever in your two photos is not either a B-2235 or B-2236 brake lever. As stated above, those two levers do not have a 90 degree bend in the arm at the clevis end. Whomever sold you (or sells) that arm claiming it to be either B-2235 or B-2236 is badly mistaken. May I suggest a cheap reprint copy of the 1933-34 chassis parts catalog for your library?

In the meantime, check out Vince Falter's website, www.fordgarage.com, for accurate photos of both the Model A and '32-'34 rear brake operating levers.
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Old 01-12-2022, 02:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Here's a link to Vince's info on the brake levers that David mentioned.
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/rea...haftlevers.htm
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

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on old english cars it can be interesting---inside the car left is sitting in seat---- outside left is standing in front of car looking at it.
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Old 01-13-2022, 12:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Seems like the only thing that would wear on a brake lever is the clevis pin hole. Just weld it up and run an end mill through it. (A regular drill bit is likely to wander off center).
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

40 Deluxe, the "domino effect" takes place when the worn part is the camshaft bushing, that requires removing the camshaft lever, that requires removing the camshaft lever pin, that's frozen in place and no amount of heat or pounding gets it to move. The cutting torch winds up being used as a last resort, especial when there's a belief replacement parts are available. Just so happens, those replacement parts are found out later to NOT be correct.

Here's how their sold:





Notice the package label describing the lever 28-34.

My point to this thread is to show replacement parts are not as original, nor are they going to always be correct in their use (left means right). I'm glad you older restorers have had access to NOS parts to fit your projects. I remember as a high school kid walking through local junkyards full of '30 - '60's cars.....but their all gone now. We're having to use what's available, or don't use them at all.

With respect to manuals, below is one of several I have.




No amount of printed materials is going to produce the original correct part. Nor, are they on a shelve waiting to be purchased.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Leadfoot4U


Thank goodness for FordBarn and Especially someone like "DavidG". As you see...his knowledge is beyond valuable AND is not only backed by years and years of research BUT ALSO years and years of "hands on" "eyes on" experience. Information you can take to the bank!!!!
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:14 AM   #10
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Not sure if ‘35 mechanical brakes r the same as ‘34 but if so & u can wait a few months I’ll be removing all the brake components except the pedal assembly on my ‘35 Tudor w 64k original miles & parts are very nice.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

'35-'36 rear brake operating levers are, unfortunately in this case, not interchangeable with the '32-'34 versions.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Leadfoot4U,


Armed with that catalog, you now know more than Bratton's as to the applicability of their reproduction levers. In fairness, that they are primarily sellers of Model A parts suggests limits on their knowledge of post-Model A parts. Still, that's not an acceptable excuse for mislabeling their parts. When in doubt, they should not guess.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:03 AM   #13
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Believe me gentlemen, I very much appreciate your replies! This hobby is full of pitfalls and misinformation (or lack of it......unlike Model A restorers that have repair manuals from Les Andrews to follow. No such manual exists for these early '30 Fords). I've got the Andrews manuals because their the most comprehensive repair information there is for a 33/34!? Oh, the Early Ford V8 Club 33/34 Book has pictures, but they don't give you a step by step procedure to repair a thing.

Which leads me to a new topic I'll post one of these days of what I see every time I read one of the Club's monthly magazines regarding Club membership decline. This idea that during judging, a premium restoration has to use original parts in order to rank a "trailer queen" auto higher than a "driver" that's using the kinds of parts that's available today? I mentioned this earlier, for those of you that were able to restore your project with NOS parts, or parts from the long gone junkyards.....well good for you. But, they don't exist today like before. We new members in todays restoration world don't have the luxury of using the correct part, because they just don't exist as before. Tell me where a new swedgeable B-1118 for a 33/34 can be found?? I've been looking for three years now, two Hershey visits, and countless phone calls......crickets! Do they matter to install? Nope, not if their for a "trailer queen". But to a "driver", yes they do.

My point is, Club membership and judging needs to accept the idea there's a difference between museum piece restorations that never see rain, and those that still hit the road. The "drivers" should have premium consideration. For no other reason....that's what the auto was used for in the first place. And, consideration towards the factual knowledge that original parts don't exist in todays restoration world.
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Leadfoot4U


Isn't that why the EFV8 club has Concours, Touring & Rouge classes? Doesn't touring fit the bill for what you are saying......Allowing for certain "modern day" parts, adaptions etc etc? IF not, I stand corrected!!!
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

You probably didn't look in every dollar box at Hershey, without specifically looking I pick up several pieces each year.
Sweging doesn't need the holes perfectly aligned,the swedging process swell up the diameter of the pin to fill the differences, this is why they don't drive right out when the head is ground off.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:48 PM   #16
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Drill down the rivet about 11/4 "both sides use 1/8 drill then a 1/4 ? then turn the arm to brake of the remainder, pull the arm of and punch out the bit left ,
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

You might try Michael at 3rd Gen Automotive.
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
on old english cars it can be interesting---inside the car left is sitting in seat---- outside left is standing in front of car looking at it.
Maybe the English have different terminology, but left/right is always relative to the orientation when seated in a vehicle - even when outside the vehicle.
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Old 01-15-2022, 08:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

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Originally Posted by rockfla View Post
Leadfoot4U


Isn't that why the EFV8 club has Concours, Touring & Rouge classes? Doesn't touring fit the bill for what you are saying......Allowing for certain "modern day" parts, adaptions etc etc? IF not, I stand corrected!!!
You're right, there are those classes. But, that will be the day when a Touring Class gets the same recognition as the Concours class. No "Overall Champion" will ever come out of the Touring Class as long as the ideal auto is considered museum piece built.

And you're right Kurt, there were still plenty of boxes left for me to look through at Hershey. Anyone saying he walked the entire 20 something miles of vender booths isn't being honest!

Thanks FlatheadTed for the procedure of removing a stuck lever pin. I should have gone that way before taking the torch to it. My rookie mistake. By the way, I'm using your brake floating kit I purchased a couple of years ago. Great idea, and I'm looking forward to using them.....one of these days!

Again, thanks everyone.
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Old 01-15-2022, 06:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

[QUOTE=Leadfoot4U;2095087]You're right, there are those classes. But, that will be the day when a Touring Class gets the same recognition as the Concours class. No "Overall Champion" will ever come out of the Touring Class as long as the ideal auto is considered museum piece built.

There are multiple classes offered so that anyone that desires to show their car, may do so at the level they desire. I don't believe for a moment that one class gets more "respect" than another.
Thankfully, not all folks desire the same thing. If you want to play on the concourse field with what you term "trailer queens", well, step right up - you are more than welcome.
Keep in mind at that level, it can and does get expensive and difficult.
A rule of thumb I was told decades ago: To restore a car to 90% (900 points) costs X amount of time and money. To restore that same car to 100% (1000 points) costs 2X of time and money.
To date, I have restored 17 cars to the level of (minimum) 997 points. Rest assured; the "investment formula" is quite accurate.
Much of the double investment to get to the 1000 points is precisely due to the lack of quality parts as well as the lack of correct parts. Those parts must be acquired, repaired and / or produced.
Just because the parts may be rare is not a reason to change the rules on the concourse.
So, now it appears to be time for you to decide where you want to show your car.
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Old 01-16-2022, 10:38 AM   #21
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

As much as I'd like to restore the Victoria to "As Henry Built It", I've unfortunately had my mind made up for me due to the reasonings already stated. Lack of parts, incorrect parts, lack of manufactures/tradesmen that could "make the part"....even if one were inclined to pay the 2X plus price for it.

I'm from Dayton, Ohio once known to be the tool and die capital of the world. Small tool and die shops were throughout this area to supply local companies like NCR, Frigidaire, Delco, Harrison Radiator, Fisher Body, Armco Steel, McCall's Printing with whatever they needed. These factories are completely gone, or just a shadow of what they once were. Along with them, the tool and die industry. Without skilled tradesmen or the machines to do the work, you'll not get that part made at any cost.

I'm saying the handicap placed on today's restorers are much more than 2X the expense and trouble than past restoration projects. If not impossible. It's easy to see why restorers head to the "dark side" by throwing out the mechanical brakes on original cars due to the inability to obtain simple things like correct shoe return springs, wheel studs, pedal return spring. Unlike just a few decades ago, NOS parts could be readily found, however those parts have all but disappeared now. Reproduced parts are made only if there's a profit in it, and quality is next to nonexistent on many in form or function.

Yes, you can buy your way onto the Concours Show Field and never need to know how to change oil. But, to have a DIY project is not as it was just a few years ago when correct parts were available and the only requirement was to pick the correct part number out of the parts manual.
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Old 01-16-2022, 11:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadfoot4U View Post
As much as I'd like to restore the Victoria to "As Henry Built It", I've unfortunately had my mind made up for me due to the reasonings already stated. Lack of parts, incorrect parts, lack of manufactures/tradesmen that could "make the part"....even if one were inclined to pay the 2X plus price for it.

I'm from Dayton, Ohio once known to be the tool and die capital of the world. Small tool and die shops were throughout this area to supply local companies like NCR, Frigidaire, Delco, Harrison Radiator, Fisher Body, Armco Steel, McCall's Printing with whatever they needed. These factories are completely gone, or just a shadow of what they once were. Along with them, the tool and die industry. Without skilled tradesmen or the machines to do the work, you'll not get that part made at any cost.

I'm saying the handicap placed on today's restorers are much more than 2X the expense and trouble than past restoration projects. If not impossible. It's easy to see why restorers head to the "dark side" by throwing out the mechanical brakes on original cars due to the inability to obtain simple things like correct shoe return springs, wheel studs, pedal return spring. Unlike just a few decades ago, NOS parts could be readily found, however those parts have all but disappeared now. Reproduced parts are made only if there's a profit in it, and quality is next to nonexistent on many in form or function.

Yes, you can buy your way onto the Concours Show Field and never need to know how to change oil. But, to have a DIY project is not as it was just a few years ago when correct parts were available and the only requirement was to pick the correct part number out of the parts manual.
I do agree that to restore a car to the very top levels is very difficult for a number of reasons, many of which you'd sited. In years to come, things will no doubt become even more difficult.
Still, that does not make changing the rules advisable. I'm not 100% certain that's kinda / sorta what you'd like to see. However, I have heard (more times than I care to recall) the argument you have at least in part put forward. That argument being "cost" and "difficulty".
One must keep in mind, each of us operates with different priorities and different levels of skills and abilities.
In the concourse world, those factors play large to the fact that there are truly very few #1 cars - TRUE #1 cars.
Bottom line in my opinion? It all comes down to priorities and abilities.

By the way, the 17 cars I'd restored to date? I personally do all of the work sans (example) chrome plating and engine machine work to name two. Many years ago, as a tool & die maker (prior to retiring) I'd done my own machine work as well.
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Old 01-16-2022, 03:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: Knowing left from right??

Well, I'm just venting my frustrations on the lack of quality reproduction parts, or the slim pickings for NOS.

Thanks for the replies.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:11 PM   #24
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Well, I'm just venting my frustrations on the lack of quality reproduction parts, or the slim pickings for NOS.

Thanks for the replies.
Oh yes... very frustrating indeed!
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