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Old 12-31-2020, 10:27 AM   #1
flatheadphilo
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Default 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

I'm getting ready to connect an 8BA to a '33 transmission. I have the Merc bell.
My question is; did the '49 and '50 Merc's bolt the oil pan to the bell or just the '51's? I have a '52 Ford pan I want to use if I can. Or do I have to find a Merc pan with the bracket that bolts to the bell?
Thanks
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Old 12-31-2020, 11:01 AM   #2
19Fordy
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

49 to early 51 Merc oil pans bolt directly to the bottom of the 49-51 Merc bell housing using 2 bolts that secure the oil pan to the bottom of the 49-51 merc bellhousing and matching starter plate. I have a 50 Merc oil pan bolted to my 1940 trnasmission and 8BA engine. The little bracket you see on the front of my oil pan photo is not shown on the Mercury oil pan pictorial drawing as it is a separate , removalable part. Look carefully at my photos and you can see how my 50 Merc oil pan bolts to the 49 to early 51 Merc bellhousing when installing an 8BA in a 40 Ford.

If you have a Mercury oil pan without that front bracket you can still bolt the Merc oil pan to the bottom of the 8BA engine block with no problems as the pan bolts hold it securely to the block. In that case, you would just use two bolts to secure the bottom of the starter plate to the bottom of the bellhousing. It would be easy to make a little bracket, if you wanted one. Make sure you have the matching starter plate for the 49-51 (early) Merc bellhousing you are using. Otherwise, your starter won't fit. I hope this helps.
Look here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=1950...lIDsCUhgSBd5_M
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Last edited by 19Fordy; 12-31-2020 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:53 PM   #3
rotorwrench
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Some of the angle pieces that are part of the half bell/oil pan are spot welded to the starter plate and some are not. In February 1951 or so, the transmission was changed from the early half bell case to the 4-bolt case like the shoe box Fords have. When this change happened, they changed over to a cast iron full bell housing with a bottom cover pan so those cars don't have the bolt up to the oil pan. Only the early 1951 cars have the early style 49 thru E51 transmission and clutch set up.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:17 PM   #4
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

F1 pickups that used the large bell housings had the support bracket also.
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Last edited by 51 MERC-CT; 12-31-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:23 PM   #5
19Fordy
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

51Merc-CT: Any idea on what that little angle braket of the 49-50 Merc oil pan was used for? it seems like it's not really needed. I don't think a dust shield was used with it.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
51Merc-CT: Any idea on what that little angle braket of the 49-50 Merc oil pan was used for? it seems like it's not really needed. I don't think a dust shield was used with it.
Don't really know which bkt.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:41 PM   #7
19Fordy
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

WHICH BRACKET?: The "L" shaped bracket that bolts the starter plate between the oil pan bracket and the stamped steel bellhousing shown in my above photo. Just wondering what was it's orginal function.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatheadphilo View Post
I'm getting ready to connect an 8BA to a '33 transmission. I have the Merc bell.
My question is; did the '49 and '50 Merc's bolt the oil pan to the bell or just the '51's? I have a '52 Ford pan I want to use if I can. Or do I have to find a Merc pan with the bracket that bolts to the bell?
Thanks
There are a couple of different ways that you can accomplish what you're trying to do. The use of the Mercury pan is slick, but costly now-a-days, as the Merc pans and especially the requisite oil pump/pick-up have become more-rare, and thusly.... more $xpensive to procure. Below are the '49-early '51 Merc pan, the bracket, the correct starter plate and the special oil pump set-up. The oil pump set-ups are really hard to find, yet they ARE out there.


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Merc Pan W/O Bracket

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The Merc Bell, Starter Plate & Bracket (Thank you V8 Bob)

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Merc Oil Pump Pick-up Assy.

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Inside of Merc Pan Showing Fitment of Special Pump Pick-up

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OR...........there's an easier (and less costly) way to go about this. You can use a '48-'50 truck pan like the ones shown in the pictures below. They seem to be much easier to find, reasonably-priced, and can be used with your Merc bell, as they have a bracket already welded to the pan to receive the two bottom bolts. Hope this helps some. DD

?

?


........
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Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 01-02-2021 at 03:40 AM.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
51Merc-CT: Any idea on what that little angle braket of the 49-50 Merc oil pan was used for? it seems like it's not really needed. I don't think a dust shield was used with it.
It supports the bottom two holes in the starter plate. If the bracket were not there, the plate has nothing RIGID on the front side to preclude it flexing when the starter engages. DD
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:57 PM   #10
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
51Merc-CT: Any idea on what that little angle braket of the 49-50 Merc oil pan was used for? it seems like it's not really needed. I don't think a dust shield was used with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
WHICH BRACKET?: The "L" shaped bracket that bolts the starter plate between the oil pan bracket and the stamped steel bellhousing shown in my above photo. Just wondering what was it's orginal function.
I know that the "L" shaped bracket is used to give added support to the bottom of the bell.

But when you said "little" bracket I could not think of another possibility.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:11 PM   #11
19Fordy
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

V8: I wonder if the large drain plug pan shown will provide as much cleance for drag link
as the Merc pan when installed on cars that are severely 'raked" using a dropped axle, dropped steering arms. Might have to modify the pan.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
V8: I wonder if the large drain plug pan shown will provide as much cleance for drag link
as the Merc pan when installed on cars that are severely 'raked" using a dropped axle, dropped steering arms. Might have to modify the pan.
You mean like this one?


?


Philo didn't specifically say what car this was going into, although he said he's using a '33 trans, so MAYBE a '33 Ford? If so, the drag link goes to the front, left spindle outside the frame. I've seen '35 and '36 Fords that can have a problem with pan clearance IF the car still has it's original steering box. If it has been modified to use a '37 and later steering box, the Pitman arm sits lower in relation to the engine/pan, and the drag links seem to have no clearance issues. The last picture with the orange pan is Heard's '36 3-window with LATE steering box, AND a dropped axle. DD


........
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Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 01-02-2021 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Excellent explanation V8. Thanks for the complete and informative reply with photos.
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:03 AM   #14
flatheadphilo
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
You mean like this one?





Philo didn't specifically say what car this was going into, although he said he's using a '33 trans, so MAYBE a '33 Ford? If so, the drag link goes to the front, left spindle outside the frame. I've seen '35 and '36 Fords that can have a problem with pan clearance IF the car still has it's original steering box. If it has been modified to use a '37 and later steering box, the Pitman arm sits lower in relation to the engine/pan, and the drag links seem to have no clearance issues. The last picture with the orange pan is Heard's '36 3-window with LATE steering box, AND a dropped axle. DD


........
Thanks for the great information! The car IS a '33 although not mine, I'm building the engine. Are you saying that there should NOT be
clearance problems in a '33 with either the Merc or truck pan because the drag link goes to the left front spindle outside the frame?
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:14 AM   #15
19Fordy
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Don't know for sure. You'll have to do a practice fit of the pan with the car at ride height and then decide.
I am guessing that if the car has stock suspension you will be ok.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 01-01-2021 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 01-01-2021, 02:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatheadphilo View Post
Thanks for the great information! The car IS a '33 although not mine, I'm building the engine. Are you saying that there should NOT be
clearance problems in a '33 with either the Merc or truck pan because the drag link goes to the left front spindle outside the frame?

This is a pretty clear picture showing how the steering box and drag link are set-up on a '33-'34. Does this help? DD


?
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Old 01-01-2021, 05:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Interesting and educational thread which I will save for future reference. However, some posts are normal size and others are way smaller which is irritating when trying to scroll and read. Can anyone make them all the same size? I would appreciate it.
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Old 01-01-2021, 05:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunateson View Post
Interesting and educational thread which I will save for future reference. However, some posts are normal size and others are way smaller which is irritating when trying to scroll and read. Can anyone make them all the same size? I would appreciate it.
That's the fault of the picture posters who are incapable of properly sizing their pictures to fit the format.
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:37 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

V8COOPMAN-


Please continue posting whatever pics you wish to. They are always useful and unless Ryan has a problem with it (and you will know it if he does) there is no problem at all.



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Old 01-04-2021, 08:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1949 & 50 Merc oil pan question.

If you can’t express your opinion without bagging on others, you won’t have an account here.
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