The Ford Barn

37 Cab · 06-09-2016, 12:33 PM

A friend just bought a 29 roadster pick up to add to his Collection. There were several cars in this purchase including 4 model As. 3 of them have an engine number that matches the title and State is fine with using those numbers for registration but the roadster pick up has a different engine number than the title. My question is.. Is there only one number stamped on the frame? I have done a search and understand it is located under the cab left front corner. Is that right? Is there another number that is more accessible? Not being to familiar with the model A I also have a couple questions about lifting the cab. How much work is it? Does the running board need to come off to see the number?

Tom Wesenberg · 06-09-2016, 12:38 PM

Yep, just one number on the frame and you'll need to lift the cab to see it. You'll have to also lift the splash apron.

37 Cab · 06-09-2016, 12:44 PM

Thanks.. Any advise on lifting the cab? Is it just a matter of detaching the steering column, Rad. support rods, choke rod, ect.. then Cab bolts? Are there any hidden bolts I may not see or things I could easily miss? Don`t want to damage anything.
Thank you for your help!

mrraford · 06-09-2016, 12:59 PM

Lifting the cab is a long day's journey that may not be worth the effort required. Friction has obscured many numbers over the years. You would probably end up having to remove the cab to try to make out the numbers that may still be on the top of the frame.
Engines get changed so it is common for the engine number to not match the vin on the title.
It may be more useful to determine if the number on the title is a valid A number. They were sequential so you should be able to guesstimate the validity based on whether the vin matches the car. Did you say it was a 28-29? there should be a date stamped on the firewall side of the gastank on the drivers side that gives and indication as to when the tank/body was produced.
The car club websites have lists of when the engines were produced so you can infer approximately when the car was produced by comparing the vin with the list. Along with the date on the tank and attributes of the car you should be able to estimate what you have.
Many people put a vin on some other plate in the car and many states accept that as the vin plate.

37 Cab · 06-09-2016, 01:05 PM

Thank you.. I will do some homework before lifting the cab. I don`t have the title here but I do remember it starts with an A.

Charlie Stephens · 06-09-2016, 01:33 PM

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Is the previous owner is available and is it possible he would fill out a "Statement of Facts" for the DMV stating that he removed the original engine and replaced it with the one that is currently installed? Better yet is there any chance that the previous owner still has the original engine with the number that matches the title? These might get you through the DMV but every state is different. Worse yet every office within the state is different. And finally every person in every office is different. I hate to confirm the bad news about lifting the cab. You may end up needing to acid etch the number to read it as many of them were faint. Good luck.

Charlie Stephens

russcochiolo · 06-09-2016, 02:14 PM

Gents,
I have a Diamond B block cast on April 22 1936 (42236) that has no number stamped on the pad. It does have a Ford number on the flywheel housing with the prefix BB. This was acceptable here in CA and is now the VIN for my roadster. Maybe this will help someone. Russ

Charlie Stephens · 06-09-2016, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russcochiolo

Gents,
I have a Diamond B block cast on April 22 1936 (42236) that has no number stamped on the pad. It does have a Ford number on the flywheel housing with the prefix BB. This was acceptable here in CA and is now the VIN for my roadster. Maybe this will help someone. Russ

Russ,

Just a bit of trivia. None of the B blocks had a number on the pad on the side of the engine. The number was on a pad at the top of the flywheel housing for the 4 cylinder beginning in 1932.

Charlie Stephens

pooch · 06-09-2016, 04:58 PM

It has ben a couple of years since I have lifted and swapped bodies.... BUT.

Do you have to lift the entire cab ?

Remove the floorboards .

Loosen the right side body bolts a bit.

Remove the left side subframe/body bolts.

Remove the left running board .

Remove the front left fender or maybe get away with just removing the hood catches/hood shelf and splash apron bolts. and some front bolts , headlight bar bolts , so the fender can move out at the back about 2 inches.

Probably no need to loosen rear fender to splash apron bolts, but advisable .

Loosen steering column at tank.

Prise or jack up the left side of subframe/ body just enough to slip the splash apron sideways 2 inches.

Benson · 06-09-2016, 05:17 PM

I am not telling anyone how they should do it this case ... BUT:

In general when dealing with the DMV in any state or country it is always better to "play Dumb" do not tell them how you had to lift the body on another car.

The person that you are dealing with at the DMV might have been told to just issue a new number or something else which is much easier than lifting the body.

They might say "well if Joe DMV in the next county forced that guy to lift the body then that is exactly what I will do also"! With some it is "a power trip".

You can always wait a while and go to a different DMV office and you might get a better deal if the first person wanted to see you lift the body.

Just saying what I learned over the years.

ronn · 06-09-2016, 05:25 PM

PM sent

aermotor · 06-09-2016, 05:32 PM

In SC I lifted my body and had a VIN inspector verify the number and issue a statement that this was the true VIN number (which is the same as the engine number). This should follow the car from state to state regardless if the engine number changes or not, true or false I don't know but I have the paper and it was free. The title reflects the same number.

John

37 Cab · 06-09-2016, 08:00 PM

I am waiting for a call from the seller. The number on the engine does not have a star prefix or suffix. If the guy can convince me the numbers are correct I am thinking about restamping the block. What do you think?

russcochiolo · 06-10-2016, 08:42 AM

Charlie (post #8),
Thanks for that info. I will take a look. The BB # that I found was on the side of the flywheel cover. Russ

john charlton · 06-10-2016, 09:39 AM

In England the engine number had to be stamped on the engine itself not the flywheel housing . This was not considered to be part of the engine . If you do have a BB/B motor with a factory stamp on the pad then it is most likely originally from Fords Dagenham England plant . Could also maybe from Cologne Germany but not sure on that .

John in dull warm Suffolk County England

russcochiolo · 06-10-2016, 03:24 PM

I just came in from the garage to post these three photos. First one shows the location of the BB#'s on the top of the flywheel cover. 2nd the blank boss. 3rd the casting # D126. In an earlier post I had those wrong.
I can't tell if I got the photo's in......I guess that I just have to submit and see. Russ

Chris Haynes · 06-10-2016, 04:28 PM

Why not get a set of Ford stamps and put your number on your frame in a spot that the fender doesn't cover.
Stamps are available on eBay and parts dealers.
If there are no stars on your engine and the texture where the numbers are don't match the rest of the block you can bet the numbers have been removed and new numbers stamped.

Charlie Stephens · 06-10-2016, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

Why not get a set of Ford stamps and put your number on your frame in a spot that the fender doesn't cover.
Stamps are available on eBay and parts dealers.
If there are no stars on your engine and the texture where the numbers are don't match the rest of the block you can bet the numbers have been removed and new numbers stamped.

My concern would be that if a knowledgeable DMV inspector saw the numbers in a place they didn't belong that it would be bad and go down hill from there.

Charlie Stephens

28RPU · 06-10-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

My concern would be that if a knowledgeable DMV inspector saw the numbers in a place they didn't belong that it would be bad and go down hill from there.

Charlie Stephens

Just how often does anyone run into a "knowledgeable" DMV inspector? They usually have a hard time finding anything but the coffee pot.

06-09-2016, 12:33 PM	#1
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Frame number question A friend just bought a 29 roadster pick up to add to his Collection. There were several cars in this purchase including 4 model As. 3 of them have an engine number that matches the title and State is fine with using those numbers for registration but the roadster pick up has a different engine number than the title. My question is.. Is there only one number stamped on the frame? I have done a search and understand it is located under the cab left front corner. Is that right? Is there another number that is more accessible? Not being to familiar with the model A I also have a couple questions about lifting the cab. How much work is it? Does the running board need to come off to see the number? __________________ Tommy Last edited by 37 Cab; 06-09-2016 at 12:45 PM. Reason: can`t spell

06-09-2016, 12:38 PM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Frame number question Yep, just one number on the frame and you'll need to lift the cab to see it. You'll have to also lift the splash apron.

06-09-2016, 12:44 PM	#3
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Frame number question Thanks.. Any advise on lifting the cab? Is it just a matter of detaching the steering column, Rad. support rods, choke rod, ect.. then Cab bolts? Are there any hidden bolts I may not see or things I could easily miss? Don`t want to damage anything. Thank you for your help! __________________ Tommy

06-09-2016, 12:59 PM	#4
mrraford Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 190	Re: Frame number question Lifting the cab is a long day's journey that may not be worth the effort required. Friction has obscured many numbers over the years. You would probably end up having to remove the cab to try to make out the numbers that may still be on the top of the frame. Engines get changed so it is common for the engine number to not match the vin on the title. It may be more useful to determine if the number on the title is a valid A number. They were sequential so you should be able to guesstimate the validity based on whether the vin matches the car. Did you say it was a 28-29? there should be a date stamped on the firewall side of the gastank on the drivers side that gives and indication as to when the tank/body was produced. The car club websites have lists of when the engines were produced so you can infer approximately when the car was produced by comparing the vin with the list. Along with the date on the tank and attributes of the car you should be able to estimate what you have. Many people put a vin on some other plate in the car and many states accept that as the vin plate.

06-09-2016, 01:05 PM	#5
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Frame number question Thank you.. I will do some homework before lifting the cab. I don`t have the title here but I do remember it starts with an A. __________________ Tommy

06-09-2016, 01:33 PM	#6
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,033	Re: Frame number question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Is the previous owner is available and is it possible he would fill out a "Statement of Facts" for the DMV stating that he removed the original engine and replaced it with the one that is currently installed? Better yet is there any chance that the previous owner still has the original engine with the number that matches the title? These might get you through the DMV but every state is different. Worse yet every office within the state is different. And finally every person in every office is different. I hate to confirm the bad news about lifting the cab. You may end up needing to acid etch the number to read it as many of them were faint. Good luck. Charlie Stephens

06-09-2016, 02:14 PM	#7
russcochiolo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 218	Re: Frame number question Gents, I have a Diamond B block cast on April 22 1936 (42236) that has no number stamped on the pad. It does have a Ford number on the flywheel housing with the prefix BB. This was acceptable here in CA and is now the VIN for my roadster. Maybe this will help someone. Russ

06-09-2016, 04:58 PM	#9
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Frame number question It has ben a couple of years since I have lifted and swapped bodies.... BUT. Do you have to lift the entire cab ? Remove the floorboards . Loosen the right side body bolts a bit. Remove the left side subframe/body bolts. Remove the left running board . Remove the front left fender or maybe get away with just removing the hood catches/hood shelf and splash apron bolts. and some front bolts , headlight bar bolts , so the fender can move out at the back about 2 inches. Probably no need to loosen rear fender to splash apron bolts, but advisable . Loosen steering column at tank. Prise or jack up the left side of subframe/ body just enough to slip the splash apron sideways 2 inches.

06-09-2016, 05:17 PM	#10
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,599	Re: Frame number question I am not telling anyone how they should do it this case ... BUT: In general when dealing with the DMV in any state or country it is always better to "play Dumb" do not tell them how you had to lift the body on another car. The person that you are dealing with at the DMV might have been told to just issue a new number or something else which is much easier than lifting the body. They might say "well if Joe DMV in the next county forced that guy to lift the body then that is exactly what I will do also"! With some it is "a power trip". You can always wait a while and go to a different DMV office and you might get a better deal if the first person wanted to see you lift the body. Just saying what I learned over the years. Last edited by Benson; 06-09-2016 at 05:23 PM.

06-09-2016, 05:25 PM	#11
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,792	Re: Frame number question PM sent

06-09-2016, 05:32 PM	#12
aermotor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,099	Re: Frame number question In SC I lifted my body and had a VIN inspector verify the number and issue a statement that this was the true VIN number (which is the same as the engine number). This should follow the car from state to state regardless if the engine number changes or not, true or false I don't know but I have the paper and it was free. The title reflects the same number. John

06-09-2016, 08:00 PM	#13
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Frame number question I am waiting for a call from the seller. The number on the engine does not have a star prefix or suffix. If the guy can convince me the numbers are correct I am thinking about restamping the block. What do you think? __________________ Tommy

06-10-2016, 08:42 AM	#14
russcochiolo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 218	Re: Frame number question Charlie (post #8), Thanks for that info. I will take a look. The BB # that I found was on the side of the flywheel cover. Russ

06-10-2016, 09:39 AM	#15
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Frame number question In England the engine number had to be stamped on the engine itself not the flywheel housing . This was not considered to be part of the engine . If you do have a BB/B motor with a factory stamp on the pad then it is most likely originally from Fords Dagenham England plant . Could also maybe from Cologne Germany but not sure on that . John in dull warm Suffolk County England

06-10-2016, 04:28 PM	#17
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	Re: Frame number question Why not get a set of Ford stamps and put your number on your frame in a spot that the fender doesn't cover. Stamps are available on eBay and parts dealers. If there are no stars on your engine and the texture where the numbers are don't match the rest of the block you can bet the numbers have been removed and new numbers stamped. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?