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02-24-2020, 11:22 AM | #1 |
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Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I have been a loyal customer and well, a fan, of Carpenter since 1973 or so.
It has become apparent that in the most recent years things are changing there. Received a pair of hood supports for a '40 today. Vintique manufactured. Had I known that, I'd never have ordered them. As most of you seasoned V8ers realize, Vintique is synonymous with "junk". The problem? I am unable to swivel ANY of the pivot points. I may not be the strongest guy alive but Lord knows I should be able to move these. I called Carpenter a moment ago and told them the issue. The fellow said they were aware of it. Really? And you still ship this garbage? Got the return authorization but absolutely NO refund for my shipping fees to return. So I am out $12 because they chose to ship a known bad product? This is BS. My wife and I own a few businesses and on the rare occasion we "goof" we suffer ALL associated "damages". It is simply unfair for a client to lose a cent for our oversight.
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02-24-2020, 11:28 AM | #2 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
I've read how large companies run statistics on return calls on defective products vs. fixing the cause of the problem. If their number crunchers think it's cheaper to deal with returns they don't make the change. If it starts costing them money, they will. I'm sure someone like Carpenter realizes their volume is so low on these types of items/sales, they are willing to roll the dice and keep selling junk. I agree, you were owed shipping reimbursement once they told you they realized the part was junk. Shame. Last edited by Tim Ayers; 02-24-2020 at 01:02 PM. |
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02-24-2020, 11:33 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
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02-24-2020, 11:34 AM | #4 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Yeah, if I get something and it comes in a Vintique package I don't even try to return it. I throw it in my plastic bins for my swap meet stalls. Don't even open it.
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02-24-2020, 12:51 PM | #5 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
It seems I'm sensing that SOME of you folks are beginning to realize that even though many of these suppliers have invested an arm and a leg to bring us peons reproduction parts, the fact still remains that some parts of questionable or unacceptable quality just cannot be justified by rhetoric and other excuses. Like Kube notes above, if the mistake, inferior quality or other inequity is NOT the fault of the customer, the honorable and ethical thing for a supplier to do is absolve the customer from any remedial or superfluous costs, including return freight. Whatever happened to the long-standing premise that the (reasonable) customer is always right? DD
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02-24-2020, 12:58 PM | #6 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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02-24-2020, 03:03 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
My comments were not directed at Vintique. I know that for the most part, they peddle crap. As such, I chose not to purchase anything with their name upon it. I bought the aforementioned hood supports from Carpenter expecting to receive the "typical" (from my extensive experience) quality part. To top it off, the guy at Carpenter readily admitted they knew of the issue with the supports. Then, to NOT reimburse my return shipping? Yeah, we all make mistakes and those of us that run ethical businesses accept the responsibility for said mistakes.
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02-24-2020, 03:24 PM | #8 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
When I talked to the Carpenter guys at Hershey last October, it was obvious they were/are going through some changes. Their display had zero new parts (catalogues only)...only used parts on display. The "sales" guys had little (none?) knowledge of early Ford V-8 cars. Sure was a different scene!
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02-24-2020, 05:17 PM | #9 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
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02-24-2020, 06:08 PM | #10 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I am not sure if this is true but I have heard Dennis Carpenter is having health issues and someone else is running the business now and it is not good.
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02-24-2020, 06:29 PM | #11 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
My experience with Vintique is not poor quality. I bought the 40 Ford headlight surround chrome from Drake. Fit like crap. Sent them back and bought Vintique ones. Perfect fit and function. I see Drake as the worst quality of the 3 suppliers.
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02-24-2020, 08:44 PM | #12 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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02-24-2020, 11:04 PM | #13 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Talk about misinformation!
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02-25-2020, 08:13 AM | #14 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Dave, this thread, like most others, has gotten completely away from the original post.
I often wish a person would read the entire thread before "piling on". Or in the case of providing misinformation, a person would simply read beyond a headline.
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02-25-2020, 08:17 AM | #15 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Don't ya' just love posts that start out... "I haven't read the whole thread, but....."
It's especially common on the H.A.M.B. |
02-25-2020, 08:31 AM | #16 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
A welcomed digression would be if someone said what they did to make them work. It's not what you asked but it is a solution.
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02-25-2020, 08:46 AM | #17 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Wonder where the parts will come from when DRAKE and Carpenter are gone?
Will that be the beginning of the end of restoring old Fords? |
02-25-2020, 09:21 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
Look at that situation as an opportunity for a young, knowledgeable and good-lookin' rich guy like yourself to save the day for the rest of us! DD |
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02-25-2020, 09:23 AM | #19 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Perhaps we have grown to expect excellence from the vendors. In restoring a 39 Ford Standard, I got two sets of used hood side panels (made by Ford) which differed by 1/4 of an inch so I mixed and matched to get the best fitting pair. In the late 50s most of the repro was poor quality from Argentina or functional stuff from vendors like Ricks. We made do as a NOS original was unobtainable. In restoring a 64 GTO, one vendor has noted that some of his products were not totally correct but the best he could get. So you were forewarned that some rework may be required should this be the best you can get. Maybe our V8 catalogs need such a disclaimer.
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02-25-2020, 09:36 AM | #20 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I wonder who made the good ones? Since 2008, a lot of restoration part and service companies have either died off or gone corporate. We all know what happens with the corporate world. It took a long time to build the restoration parts suppliers to the level that they were in 2008. It's just sad that it is now seeming to regress to what it was back in the 70s when they were few and far between. I remember the stuff available from South America back then.
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02-25-2020, 10:56 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
the supply is rising every day while the demand is lowering.
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02-25-2020, 11:04 AM | #22 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
The smaller vendors that make stuff in the USA tend to have much better quality anyway. A big company like Drake selling piss poor quality will not be missed. Now that the Corona virus has taken hold, vendors will learn they can't depend on China. Good ridens. That goes for other imports as well like new cars and parts.
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02-25-2020, 11:26 AM | #23 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
I think Kube's issue was having to pay for shipping back due to poor quality. |
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02-25-2020, 12:52 PM | #24 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
That's a pretty widespread practice (the returnor paying for return shipping), although there are notable exceptions like Amazon.
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02-25-2020, 01:08 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
I was taught early on that although "everyone is doing it" doesn't necessarily equate to "it" being correct.
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02-25-2020, 01:22 PM | #26 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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You just have to take a hit and grin and bare it. So important to use the recommended suppliers to get the best deal. Phil NZ |
02-25-2020, 01:36 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
The issue is the lack of ethics.
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02-25-2020, 01:54 PM | #28 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Ethics! Do they exist anywhere today? Or, am I being too cynical, again? dw
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02-25-2020, 02:16 PM | #29 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
When Mr. Carpenter ran that business a guy could except to be treated "right". That was a primary reason I'd worked primarily with his company for the past 4 - 5 decades.
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02-25-2020, 02:17 PM | #30 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
As many of you know I manufacture and sell parts for 1933 1934 Fords. I take extra time and effort to make them correct and perfect. I test all parts for fit and finish and use NOS examples to take my measurements from. So because of all of this quality I put into the parts I have to charge more for them. So what do you think the results are. No one will purchase my parts. If I threw them together they would complain. If I put the quality in them everyone feels there to expensive. So what does everyone want. There are a few guys out there that want them because they demand only the best but that is not the norm. My goal in life is that if I do only one thing right in my life it will be to restore my car with the best parts and workmanship available.
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02-25-2020, 02:34 PM | #31 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I applaud anyone fabricating parts as good as Ford did for any model. When I was purchasing parts for my Model A years ago, I started doing business with Bratton's for the simple reason that they would put it in there catalog what they felt about the quality of the parts available with a warning if it wasn't at least as good as Ford's OEM. Most of them don't send out catalogs like they used to since there on line catalog is there on the web-site. The warnings aren't always there anymore.
Folks should mention this stuff and tell you how it's lacking or they shouldn't offer it up. At least that way you can't blame them. They are just trying to sell the best part available to them. Few of them actually manufacture this stuff. Even if they are involved, they still farm it out to be done and results aren't always what folks want. There should be truth in their advertising. |
02-25-2020, 02:51 PM | #32 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
Bill....Even though you're not being swamped with orders, you can damned sure be proud to offer pieces that you know require no excuses. You've endeavored to offer serious parts for the truly "serious" connoisseur. DD |
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02-25-2020, 03:27 PM | #33 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
You can now vote with your wallet with a clear conscience......buy from someone else....if there actually is someone else to buy from. Otherwise your choice is go without, make your own, or suck it up. The demographics are working against us old V-8 guys......economics realities.......hard to accept, but nevertheless true. |
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02-25-2020, 03:44 PM | #34 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
You hit the nail on the head hotrodart, back in the '70s and '80s there were probably 10 or 12, V-8 Fords ether being restored or hot rodded within a 10 mile radius of my house. Some of us would visit each others shop all the time. Today, I don't know of one person in my entire area, that is restoring a car or building a street rod. Reality, but sad.
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02-26-2020, 08:33 AM | #35 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I bought hinges from Mac's are they were terrible. They were tight and when I tried to free them up two of the arms came off. They were formed wrong and when I checked the hole sizes I discovered the both end of the arms are punched 3/8" but they used 5/16" rivets. My originals had 3/8" for the hood end and 5/16" for the rivets. I ended up using the old arms on the new hinges. The holes in the arms weren't worn to bad and I used the new rivets. Mac's are junk too.
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02-26-2020, 01:00 PM | #36 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I have been buying from Carpenter for years without problems. They manufacture many of the hard to find parts, and like other vendors, they also stock parts from others. Parts made by Dennis Carpenter's company are top quality, particularly made "in house" rubber parts. I can't say that for many others.
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02-27-2020, 12:20 AM | #37 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Can I bitch about millennials and hair buns too? Buy a part if you can find it or deal.
If you are hanging on to 6x of something... sell it. You only need 1 backup. . |
02-27-2020, 01:38 AM | #38 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
a year or 2 ago I got Carpenter water pump gaskets witch actuality wicked coolant trough them, normal paper wouldn't even do that
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02-27-2020, 01:39 AM | #39 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Don't be petty.... Make your own. Gasket material is available from napa.
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02-27-2020, 05:50 AM | #40 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Maybe before making a purchase ask the vendor for a description of the quality. If it turns out to be rubbish just "sue the ass off 'em" ?
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02-27-2020, 07:00 AM | #41 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Yeah, like that would be productive. $300 an hour attorney fees for a $10 set of gaskets (or a set of $100 struts), Or you could save some money and waste a day in small claims court. You have more faith in the legal system than I have experienced.
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02-27-2020, 08:34 AM | #42 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
It's still refreshing to see, on rare occasion any more, someone still able to use just a little common sense. You go, Denny! DD |
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02-27-2020, 09:55 AM | #43 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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03-01-2020, 05:15 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
I made the last water pump gaskets from cereal box and they never leaked or suffered in any way, only took them off to change the leaking pumps. Dennis makes his gaskets from compressed tissue paper soaked in diarrhea. |
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03-01-2020, 07:36 PM | #45 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I prefer gasket stock from napa, for a lot of engine and body gaskets. No way would I attempt to "make" a head gasket. With a good roll you can make an intake gasket. But gaskets are pretty straight forward and can be bought, certainly if you are doing a rebuild. Makes all the sense in the world to buy a set for a rebuild. Best gaskets is great.
My point was about finding resources. The resources are going to get smaller as time goes on. If, something works great. The quality of larger suppliers may be suspect, but still a great resource and most of the time is great. But, If you feel that way, support other avenues. Been a while since I've had to buy things from large suppliers. And I do not have to rely on them. My 38 truck mat from Carpenter 4 yrs ago was great. Love it Guess I might change my tune when I really need something. But I'm in maintenance mode now and there are some real champs here that know how to service parts. |
03-01-2020, 11:21 PM | #46 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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I want to buy a new fuel pump or even a rebuild kit in NZ but all the shops say bob and Dennis are having trouble finding a place to make them |
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03-01-2020, 11:27 PM | #47 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Ask charlieny. Not to put pressure on him. You are on the other side of the world, It's the same here sometimes. My last pumps were from carpenter and still running them, maybe I bought them at the right time. 5 yrs later. Knock on wood
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03-02-2020, 01:58 AM | #48 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
Brit humor on a Yank forum requires an appropriate emoji to clue us on how we should react.
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03-05-2020, 12:59 PM | #49 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
My Bob drake crab distributor cap has the contacts sticking out too far so it broke the NOS rotor, and I got a new bob drake rotor that is so long you cannot even get the cap on, have to grind 2.5mm off the brass tip
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03-08-2020, 09:07 AM | #50 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
While it may seem odd to quote my own post, it is quite apparent by how these threads go so far away from the original topic, I figured I needed to bring it (the thread) back to the original intent. Follow up: Carpenter finally came through and refunded my return shipping costs. It took speaking with the "right" person - one that had agreed the parts sent were known to be inferior. Bottom line? With a little prodding, they did the right thing. Thanks Carp's!
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03-08-2020, 09:21 AM | #51 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I always buy from Joe's when possible. He will tell me the quality or lack of, of the part and let me make the decision. Nothing like an old school / honest vendor.
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03-08-2020, 01:43 PM | #52 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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03-08-2020, 03:32 PM | #53 |
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03-08-2020, 04:11 PM | #54 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
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03-08-2020, 04:23 PM | #55 |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
I manufacture a few old parts. Quality is the primary consideration. So my stuff is always better than original. Nothing less will do.
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03-08-2020, 05:03 PM | #56 | |
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Re: Now it's junk from Carpenter!
Quote:
For some reason, I get the feeling that you'd rather hang up the phone than to defend your pricing to a bargain hunter.
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