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Old 07-28-2013, 11:11 PM   #1
tbirdtbird
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Default Success with improvements for touring

OK, first off I am in this for all the touring I can get.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:19 PM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

I am glad you are happy with your Model-A experiences. Your comments do pose an interesting thought to me though, ....how is it that Model-A's were capable for touring successfully all these years, and all these miles without a set of tube shocks, an electronic ignition system, and a Mitchell overdrive?
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:48 PM   #3
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
u may have missed this part

"This all boils down to being easier on the car and easier on the driver."

Your perception! ....but not mine.



Tube shocks are a cheaper fix than a properly working original shock, but definitely not better. You can't tune the ride quality on a tube shock. You can on an original shock.

Granted the electronic ignition is an improvement over a worn-out original ignition system but with good quality dist. cams back into production, a completely rebuilt distributor (which costs less money) will perform equal to an electronic system, ...until the module on the electronic system fails. When they do, your options are much more limited which generally places some stress on the driver at that point!!

Since you mentioned you rebuilt your rear end, you could have saved the money by installing a 3.27 gear ratio over the Mitchell overdrive and achieved the same results with performance. With the weight of the Mitchell repositioned due to the 180's footwell, the ride quality would have improved by using the 3.27 too. So you spent more money than you needed to, cluttered up the interior with another shift lever, and decreased the quality of the ride characteristics. I fail to see how that has made the driver's life easier.

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

GEEZ! I feel REALLY COLD water frum somewhere????? Maybe my A.C. drain line plugged up again???
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
like I said already if you don't like the setup, simply do not do it. why argue? I happen to love it. And the only perception I honestly care about is mine.
I read Brents post as a response to your "This post is for the benefit of those who have considered these changes for their car but weren't sure about them."

Why would someone consider them, being easier on the car and easier on the driver? As Brent states, all those mods are not necessary for a good reliable car that can hit 70. They will do the job but all those things are not necessary.
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:01 AM   #6
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I like hearing both sides. You're both right.

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Old 07-29-2013, 11:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

tbirdtbird ;

You left out your A/C by Ken Davis . Hard to argue against an A/C especially when living in Texas and it is the Bosses prerequest to going on tours . If mama`s not happy nobodys happy. Glad you are happy with your set up. Diversity in Model A ( from no mods to a lot of mods ) is what makes this hobby interesting . Keep touring and posting .
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
OK, you naysayers are correct and I am wrong, I spent all night removing all that stuff from the car. You are correct, an engine with less vibration will not make any difference to the babbitt at all. Turning 2200 @ 70 is of no help, lets just wind it up to 2500 rpm or more and totally fall off the torque curve, you are right. Yep, lets put in a 3.27 and be ready for the mountains. why not a 2.81, I have contacted Snyders to have that special set cut just for me.
In fact, I not only removed all the stuff I mentioned, but I went back in time even more and installed a pile of Model T stuff, it is even older and thus must be even better on today's busy interstates. Man it was all I could do to get that magneto flywheel on that A, but I did it !!!
In fact, why drive it at all? Just trailer it and you'll never have to worry about any of this; that is my next move. Actually why have the car at all?

I have been in 2 clubs and both have had a couple killed and the car destroyed by trucks coming up behind them and smashing them because they were slower than surrounding traffic, but why would anyone care about that?

As I said at the outset, if you don't like it don't do it...which means if you don't like it, don't do it. Run your car however you want. Use rubber band drive; put in a Briggs and Stratton, how about a make&break; what about cucumber drive?

I think some folks on the forum have forgotten to take their medication.
now that you removed all that unneeded garbage can you please ship it all to my shop. i will take care of the shipping fees
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post

Granted the electronic ignition is an improvement over a worn-out original ignition system but with good quality dist. cams back into production, a completely rebuilt distributor (which costs less money) will perform equal to an electronic system, ...until the module on the electronic system fails. When they do, your options are much more limited which generally places some stress on the driver at that point!!



.
You forgot one variable....the person in control of the advance lever....I've said it before and I will say it again. A correctly set up centrifugal advance is far superior to a manually advanced unit when you take into account the variable of the driver.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

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You forgot one variable....the person in control of the advance lever....I've said it before and I will say it again. A correctly set up centrifugal advance is far superior to a manually advanced unit when you take into account the variable of the driver.
Very true!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
OK, you naysayers are correct and I am wrong, I spent all night removing all that stuff from the car. You are correct, an engine with less vibration will not make any difference to the babbitt at all. Turning 2200 @ 70 is of no help, lets just wind it up to 2500 rpm or more and totally fall off the torque curve, you are right. Yep, lets put in a 3.27 and be ready for the mountains. why not a 2.81, I have contacted Snyders to have that special set cut just for me.
In fact, I not only removed all the stuff I mentioned, but I went back in time even more and installed a pile of Model T stuff, it is even older and thus must be even better on today's busy interstates. Man it was all I could do to get that magneto flywheel on that A, but I did it !!!
In fact, why drive it at all? Just trailer it and you'll never have to worry about any of this; that is my next move. Actually why have the car at all?

I have been in 2 clubs and both have had a couple killed and the car destroyed by trucks coming up behind them and smashing them because they were slower than surrounding traffic, but why would anyone care about that?

As I said at the outset, if you don't like it don't do it...which means if you don't like it, don't do it. Run your car however you want. Use rubber band drive; put in a Briggs and Stratton, how about a make&break; what about cucumber drive?

I think some folks on the forum have forgotten to take their medication.

Well we could debate this out for months and probably never have a consensus. My only aim is to make sure the "innocent bystanders" do not misunderstand the information we give and mistake it as being 'gospel'. Folks feeling the need to convert to hydraulic brakes over mechanicals is a great example of how misinformation becomes alleged facts.



I do want to make a few comments regarding your last comments;

Living in the mountains of eastern Tennessee, I know what a 3.27 gear is capable of from repeated first-hand experience. I recently had a couple cars from my shop on the Blue Ridge Parkway tour with 3.27 ratios and their owners reported they pulled the hills remarkably. Therefore we need to be cautious not to lead folks into thinking the 3.27 ratio cannot satisfactorily perform in the mountains.

As for the Model-T flywheel, they actually share the same bolt pattern on the flange so it really should have been an easy installation.


Your comments regarding why own a Model-A are thought provoking. Thank you for that. In my view, there are all kinds of reasons to own a Model-A but since you mentioned you belonging to two clubs (that experienced fatalities), one could assume you are speaking of MARC or MAFCA sanctioned clubs. If this is indeed true, do not these modifications you speak of go directly against the core value of the club's mission statement?

My personal position is if someone finds themselves pushing a vehicle past it's designed mechanical limits while in an unsafe or compromising condition, then the entire scenario really needs to be reconsidered. Just this past week, there was a Model T tour out in Utah where there was a fatality of a tour participant. Several on that tour stated they were driving on roads that placed them and their vehicles in jeopardizing situations. Many T owners were apparently trying to drive as fast as they could to avoid being hit by modern cars, ...and many found themselves driving precarious speeds on shoulders of the road in an effort to be safer. One vehicle on the tour drifted off the edge of the road into sand and the driver overcorrected. The result was the spoke wheel collapsed and the vehicle rolled ejecting the passengers. One passenger succumbed to her injuries.

The bottom line is I agree with you how there are all kinds of modern modifications that can be done to a Model-A (effectively turning it into a street rod) that will likely make it somewhat safer at interstate-type speeds. The issue is these speed you mention are much greater than what the Model-A was originally designed for and/or expected to be driven in its' day. Making your car drive faster does not necessarily make it safer in my view. So my question is what is wrong with using a trailer to safely transport your Model-A to a geographical area where it can be operated in a safe manner as it was originally intended?

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

On a more serious note, with nothing but sincere respect for the gentlemen replying to "Touring Improvements", this particular discussion could be published in a book for both experienced Model A owners & for newbies who just bought A Model A, to illustrate the differences in restoration opinions that we "all" share.

The comical replies should be left in to add interest.

With a few suggestions from "all" Ford - Barners brave enough to offer an opinion, we could throw in a few more likes, dislikes, pet peeves, etc.

Some other topics could be: white-wall tires, detergent oil, cut-off switches on positive & negative battery leads, & what ever.

This publication could be eloquently presented with humor, & could be both educational & professionally amusing for all Model A owners.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post

Well we could debate this out for months and probably never have a consensus. My only aim is to make sure the "innocent bystanders" do not misunderstand the information we give and mistake it as being 'gospel'. Folks feeling the need to convert to hydraulic brakes over mechanicals is a great example of how misinformation becomes alleged facts.


.
I agree with this 100%.

You CAN do whatever you want to your car. Our point is that you don't HAVE to to get a; smooth running, great mileage, comfortable, great stopping, etc. Model A.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Blackwalls, whitewalls, skinny girlfriends, fat girlfriends, it's all a matter of preference. Enjoy whatever you have.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post

<snip>

Your comments regarding why own a Model-A are thought provoking. Thank you for that. In my view, there are all kinds of reasons to own a Model-A but since you mentioned you belonging to two clubs (that experienced fatalities), one could assume you are speaking of MARC or MAFCA sanctioned clubs. If this is indeed true, do not these modifications you speak of go directly against the core value of the club's mission statement?

<snip>

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C'mon Brent..... Seriously?


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Old 07-29-2013, 02:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

So, if one has ANYTHING non-original that violates the MARC or MAFCA mission statement, should we not be allowed as a member???
My '30 Coupe, Minerva, was highly modified & very dependable & was a pleasure to drive. My '29 Coupe, Vermin is almost completely "bone stock" & will be a new driving experience & will be very dependable also.
I can imagine Henry Ford saying, "Well, folks, I've built you a TUFF, DEPENDABLE, car, so go & accessorize it to suit yourselves, we even offer GENUINE FORD ACCESSORIES to help you, jist DON'T buy them "GYP" parts out there"!
As for "US" reaching a "CONCENSUS" on this subject, it has my Dog laughin' uncontrollabley & rollin' in the floor!! Bill W.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
OK, first off I am in this for all the touring I can get. So if you don't like what I have done, simply put, don't do it. This post is for the benefit of those who have considered these changes for their car but weren't sure about them. And, the Dallas club has a bunch of excellent tours every yr.

1. Ken's modern rear shocks WoW the car doesn't hop all over the road any more!
And we do have our share of bad roads around here.

2. FSI electronic ignition. WOW I was told it would seem like I had a counter-balanced crank (which I don't), and it is even better than that ! The engine runs so smoothly it is beyond description. So I am thrilled and I am sure my babbitt is happier, too. And, I used to have a nasty harmonic at 50-55 mph but that is totally gone now. Despite what the instructions say, full advance has kicked in by 1600.

3. Mitchell OD. Holy crap this is excellent! I threw on a tach and was turning 1900 at 60 and 2200 at 70; and it was smooth as could be. I will never see 70 on an actual tour; but I can now be on those stretches of Interstate that can't be avoided and not be a hazard to myself and others. And at lower speeds there will be less wear on the engine. In fact, with my 3.78 gearset I can drive around town in Mitchell high with ease, even off the line at lights.

I had a 3.54 in there before but it cannot compare this Mitchell setup.

4. I thank Tom Endy for exquisite instructions on setting up an A gearset, way better than the Schild book I used 20 yrs ago. Not a peep from the rear and needed no shims at all on the tapers; it is solid back there.

This all boils down to being easier on the car and easier on the driver.
I too have an overdrive, FSI Distributor and Ken's modern shocks (along with some other goodies). I have been very satisfied with this set up.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #17
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I don't have any of it (except an oil filter and alternator) and I'm happy as a clam.

Old school is still cool.........


Talkin' about my '31 slant window, not my avatar
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

I think some folks are confusing adding all these bolt ons with chop and channel ,etc,etc therefore assuming preservation of the Model A is not taking place . I have a 31 s/w with many many goodies ( set up for touring) which can be removed and the car is as stock as the day it rolled off the assembly line. As tbirdtbird stated if you are into touring you might be interested in my post if not, do not waste your time reading it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Success with improvements for touring

So where do we find these 3.27 original ring & pinnion sets from ? I have had 56 Model A,s & non had 3.27 rears . Are these a MODERN UP GRADE like the tele shocks etc or did some A,s come out factory with them ?? IF not then this must be a modification too.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
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... I have a 31 ... with many many goodies ( set up for touring) which can be removed and the car is as stock as the day it rolled off the assembly line ...
That's the way mine is!
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