Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-14-2020, 01:13 PM   #1
DNLs1930
Senior Member
 
DNLs1930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Fort Worth side of DFW
Posts: 144
Default Radius ball cap

Went on a really fun outing with the Fort Wort Model A Club this past weekend and while the car did wonderful (seeing lots of returns on maintenance performed!!) I do have a bit of steering wondering and will be going through the Les Andrews book but did noticed the Radius ball "pops" with steering input while static. No pop or clunk when the car is in motion.



I crawled under the car and can actually see the "pop" so guessing time for some maintenance in that area...



Other than the replacement cap, felt and "washer spacer" anything unusual I need to know before I dig in to this?



The ball itself could be bad which some say weld and reshape but hoping it is a lot simpler than that...
DNLs1930 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 03:09 PM   #2
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 3,116
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Any thoughts from members of the club that could help diagnosing the issue of wandering?
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-14-2020, 04:02 PM   #3
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Radius ball cap

That ball should be oily/greasy. Is it an original type or the rubber sleeve style ?
There is a 'shim' that the vendors sell, but, another old way is too install large washer under the ball.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 06:05 PM   #4
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,305
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
That ball should be oily/greasy. Is it an original type or the rubber sleeve style ?
There is a 'shim' that the vendors sell, but, another old way is too install large washer under the ball.
I had a very worn ball so I put one of those washers on it. It didn't take long for the washer to end up UNDER the ball. I welded the washer in place on top (that's where the wear is) with plenty of weld till the washer basically didn't exist any more. I then ground it all off to round again using a gauge like a washer to check for round. No problems since.
__________________
Accidents hurt. Safety doesn't.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 07:17 PM   #5
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,501
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Check that toe in.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 08:24 PM   #6
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,613
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
The usual issue with "wandering" is not so much with the radius rods/ball as with the shaft for the steering sector having worn. Steering sector shaft "shucks" back and forth. This can also cause "free play" at the steering wheel.

The check for this is to raise the front wheels (both) and then grab a tire between the two hands and with steering wheel stationary (you might need to rope it down) see if the pitman arm top (where attached to the shaft) moves. It should be as tight as can be made.

Making it tighter usually means new steering sector/shaft, possibly but not necessarily a new worm, and new bushings in the housing.

Many vendors now sell "rebuilt" sector shaft/housings using Torrington needle bearings and seals. The consensus among many is that this is a defective fix in that the sector shaft is not hardened, and the needles "brinnell" the shaft and create a "lumpy" feel to the wheel. Torrington needles are good in a rolling application, but the needles are largely stationary and the unit pressure is too high in this application.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 08:26 PM   #7
DNLs1930
Senior Member
 
DNLs1930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Fort Worth side of DFW
Posts: 144
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Is there a spec on the ball (I'm sure there is just need to know where to find it) so I know howout of spec it is?



I have read the "finder washer and ball peen hammer" solution and it works for me if thats all I need to do.

The wondering is steering box related (I think) and will try the adjustments first and go from there. Toe would be easy to check just not sure how many little things can add up to some wonder. The car responds well just seems to have a little too much free play in the steering input.
DNLs1930 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 09:59 PM   #8
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,305
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNLs1930 View Post
Is there a spec on the ball (I'm sure there is just need to know where to find it) so I know howout of spec it is?
From memory, the ball is 1.5" diameter.
__________________
Accidents hurt. Safety doesn't.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 05:17 AM   #9
PalAl
Senior Member
 
PalAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Orangeville Illinois
Posts: 357
Default Re: Radius ball cap

I have never used this site but others have said it a great resource, just a thought

https://www.thehenryford.org/collect...arts-drawings/
PalAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 05:23 AM   #10
dave in australia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,028
Default Re: Radius ball cap

One of my way earlier posts was on how I repaired some of my radius rod ball and spares.
I milled the ball off, leaving a .750" shaft. Threaded the shaft to .750" UNF, then bought a ball, drill and tapped it to suit. Then screwed the ball on with loctite, and as a last securing agent, drill down the thread and inserted a roll pin.
dave in australia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 06:24 AM   #11
SAJ
Senior Member
 
SAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 406
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Nice one Dave. My ball was round but loose in the socket. I used a vice to press a brass cup freeze plug into the socket using the wishbone ball to form it as shown. It matched the socket and ball perfectly and should wear well being brass with an oil hole drilled in the middle.
I don't know why the ball was still round but very loose. Maybe the socket was from a rubber ball installation and the ball was missing before I got the car
SAJ in NZ
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Forming brass cup plug using wishbone ball.jpg (39.8 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Reformed cup plug in wishbone socket .jpg (53.8 KB, 60 views)
SAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 09:36 PM   #12
DNLs1930
Senior Member
 
DNLs1930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Fort Worth side of DFW
Posts: 144
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Pretty sure a "Fender washer is not going to fix this problem; and I guess this would be the reason the rubber ball is not recommended...



YIKES!!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4992.JPGsmall.JPG (42.8 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4985.JPGsmall.JPG (35.7 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4972.JPGsmall.JPG (51.7 KB, 50 views)
DNLs1930 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 09:57 PM   #13
DNLs1930
Senior Member
 
DNLs1930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Fort Worth side of DFW
Posts: 144
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNLs1930 View Post
Pretty sure a "Fender washer is not going to fix this problem; and I guess this would be the reason the rubber ball is not recommended...



YIKES!!!
Mine appears to be worn... (just a little...)
Guess I will be cutting off the ball and replacing it or the entire arm...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg New_vs_old.jpg (13.1 KB, 43 views)
DNLs1930 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 07:00 AM   #14
Aretino
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Dallas, TX, Angola, IN
Posts: 69
Default Re: Radius ball cap

My car came with the rubber ball setup. I disassemble and inspect the ball routinely then replace the rubber ball as it deteriorates. Not sure why its not a recommended modification?
Aretino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 07:15 AM   #15
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Radius ball cap

The washer is a good temporary fix until the ball can be fixed. Its size is 1.5".

The rubber sleeve was used by Ford after the A. I think it started in '32 but not quite sure of the year.

The 2 styles/systems are not the same.

I think in the OP he was just looking for a temporary quick fix while trying to diagnose a problem. His question related to the ball.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 08:48 AM   #16
Benson
Senior Member
 
Benson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Snork Key
Posts: 2,100
Default Re: Radius ball cap

There are two types as mentioned:

1. The original Repro in Berts catalog A-3440 RADIUS CAP SET - ORIGINAL STYLE

2. The rubber ball type

The catalog photo will tell you which type that you have or combination of the two types that you have..

NOTE: The parts CAN NOT be mixed between the two types ... doing so can result in a loose radius ball.

I have not used the rubber ball for more than 50 years as it did not work very well or last very long.

The rubber ball quickly turns to mush.

Last edited by Benson; 09-16-2020 at 02:27 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 12:15 PM   #17
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,047
Default Re: Radius ball cap

My car had the rubber ball style and never gave me any trouble. I decided to put a new rubber on when I pulled the transmission and was surprised to see that the ball measured a perfectly round 1.5".


I suspect that is why I never had a problem with it, the rubber was nicely compressed in the caps and didn't have a small oblong radius ball bouncing around and wearing it out. Because of that I'm the odd man out that actually likes the rubber ball setup. I do think that either setup requires a correctly shaped full size radius ball though.
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 12:41 PM   #18
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,079
Default Re: Radius ball cap

I've used the rubber ball cover on all of the model A's that I have owned for over fifty years with good service . If the ball is badly worn , don't expect the rubber ball cover fix to work very well .
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 04:23 PM   #19
Benson
Senior Member
 
Benson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Snork Key
Posts: 2,100
Default Re: Radius ball cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNLs1930 View Post
Mine appears to be worn... (just a little...)
Guess I will be cutting off the ball and replacing it or the entire arm...
FYI:

There several different ways to replace the ball.

Find out how it will be done BEFORE you cut the wishbone!

1. One cuts the ball off like in post 13 above showing the photo above.


2. The second works differently as in photo below.
https://modelastore.com/index.php?ro...oduct_id=12627


3. Third one machines ball off leaving a stud about 1/2 or 5/8ths long. Then a ball with hole in it is welded onto the stud after stud is machined to fit
Just saying ....

Last edited by Benson; 09-16-2020 at 04:39 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:37 AM.