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02-15-2021, 11:51 AM | #41 | |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
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02-15-2021, 12:56 PM | #42 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Would this suggest you are using a "speed density" system,or does the MAF system use MAP sensor as well?
Thanks for the guidance Jim. Cheers[/QUOTE] A mass air flow(MAF) system would be more desirable than a speed density. I know that a late 80's early 90's Chrysler MAF sensor is also a MAP sensor, my old man memory is not sure if GM and Ford also are. The weakness of the early GM ecms was the fuel maps were all in the prom to change one that the self tuning wouldn't correct the prom had to be change. The aftermarket may have had a tuner that with the aid of a laptop could change the maps on the fly...never having been a GM guy I couldn't say. The Fords of the same era had a covered service port on the ecm where aftermarket "tuners" could be attached to modify the fuel and timing maps. The 5.0L Mustang guys were their target costomers |
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02-19-2021, 11:38 AM | #43 | |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
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Great set up ! do you have a part number for the yellow subaru injectors? Because they dont look like the " normal" injectors that i know . |
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02-19-2021, 06:43 PM | #44 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Thanks! I believe they are 04/06 wrx sti injectors, ~550cc/min. They are ‘side feed’ style which is unusual, but fits the throttle bodies I have. Ken
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02-20-2021, 03:25 AM | #45 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Cool ,thank you.
What coil packs do you use and how did you mount the trigger wheel to the 8ba pulley? Last question :-) how do you mount the trigger sensor ? Tia Micky |
02-21-2021, 11:48 AM | #46 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
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The trigger wheel is 6 3/4" diameter from diyautotune.com. I bored out the small center hole so that it would slip over the hub on the backside of the crank pulley, and brazed it around the perimeter at three locations. The sensor (stock Ford VR) is mounted using a two piece aluminum bracket that bolts to the 7/16" holes just inboard from the driver's side water pump. I mounted mine slightly too high and had to whittle down the sensor body to clear the belt! Sorry: this is the best picture I could get! A772FC73-578C-4782-9812-EC4AD0352756 by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr |
02-24-2021, 08:07 PM | #47 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
I just pushed another truck home with my Bobcat...he he. A 1994 Ford F-150 4x4 auto. All I needed was the brake pedal and my neighbor said I had to take the whole truck. It has a MAF 302 in it so it could be usable for something, brakes are good on it and it's a 4x4 so can probably sell some stuff from it to help pay for other flathead items.
I also drove my 1995 Chev truck that another neighbor gave me last year, down the hill yesterday after I plowed 2' of snow off the trail. Damn thing fired right up. Gotta love fuel injection. It's what I have decided to use for the injection system on the flathead. GM late 80's and into early 90's are very popular and easily tunable and parts are readily available. This truck has everything I need except for the 2.8L GM throttle body. I should be able to find one of those locally. More later. Cheers
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1949 Ford F-47 with a '51 8BA Flatty, GM TBI fuel injection system, and a grey shop cat, Spot. |
02-25-2021, 10:54 AM | #48 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
[QUOTE=Ken Henry;1985560]Here's another shot with the air cleaner on. You can also see the PCV valve (blue) at the front and fuel pressure regulator on the firewall. The doodad marked SiemensVDO is an idle air control valve and works in feedback loop to regulate the idle speed. Next up will be some EAB heads with a tight squish area and eventually a Mercury crank!!
Hi Ken, What did you use for the air cleaner please? Great looking Ford Ken! Glenn |
02-25-2021, 11:04 AM | #49 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Thanks Glenn! I ordered a 12" aluminum air cleaner from ebay and an extra top. For the base, I bored two holes in the correct position for the two throttle bodies. You should be able to see some hex standoffs at the top of the throttle bodies on some of the pictures. These are for securing the base down to the throttle bodies, which is done with the velocity stacks removed since the openings in the air cleaner base are smaller than the tops of the velocity stacks. Then the velocity stack pop in along with seals where they pass through the air cleaner. I'll try to post a picture later. I might go to a taller air cleaner since I have plenty of room under the hood... Ken
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02-25-2021, 11:10 AM | #50 | |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
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Definitely get the EDIS parts from the Ford. I really like mine. Does the 95 Chevy truck throttle body have injectors incorporated? If so it might be an easy way to go. I think it is less of a problem to use too big of a TB compared to too big of a carb... Ken |
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02-25-2021, 11:32 AM | #51 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Hi Ken,
Thanks, yes I will be pulling the complete 5.0L engine and EDIS system from the Ford. I also have a '88 F-150 with the speed/density system as another option. I have 20 acres so it's no problem keeping these intact for now...easier to move around. As I got the '95 Chevy running so well yesterday and it's in such good condition, I'm going to keep it as my farm truck. Yesterday I found a complete 1990 C1500 truck at the wreckers and have made a deal to pull the whole ECM TBI system from it, including the 1227747 ECM which is the desirable, tunable ECM. It has been converted to propane but I don't think that is a problem, I'll still find the right TB unit, there are lots around and as you said, they are not as critical as far as CFM is concerned as carbs. The 2.8L TBI is 240 CFM, the 4.3, 5 and 5.7 are 500 CFM and the fuel injectors are what really control the fuel delivery, anywhere from 28 lbs/hr to 85 lbs/hr so I could use the 500 CFM TB with the smaller injectors if need be. The nice thing about the 2.8L TB is that their bores are 1 3/8" vs 1 11/16" of the 500CFM units, which is a better match for the Merc manifold. cheers
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1949 Ford F-47 with a '51 8BA Flatty, GM TBI fuel injection system, and a grey shop cat, Spot. Last edited by Kilohertz; 02-25-2021 at 11:38 AM. |
02-25-2021, 12:21 PM | #52 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
I run two 550 cc/min (52 lb/hr) injectors with 8 squirts per engine cycle, simultaneous, and it works OK. The injectors are just barely in the linear part of their input-output range at warm idle and the duty cycle is OK at full throttle. This was necessary because with the design of the intake manifold and throttle body adapters, each injector sprays into both planes of the manifold. You will be better off, with each injector spraying into a different plane... Might I suggest two 2.8L TBIs on a dual carb manifold?!?! Good luck! Ken
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02-25-2021, 12:39 PM | #53 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Thanks Ken!
I have two 97's with the little filters. I noticed the observation about flow with them and though I'd look into one larger one. I appreciated your info. Glenn |
02-27-2021, 04:32 AM | #54 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Hi Ken , where can i buy that stromberg bolt pattern to "Ducati" adapters?
They dont look homemade.... Micky |
02-27-2021, 08:08 AM | #55 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Hi Micky, I used an adapter made by Thickstun and had my friend with a mill modify the 1 barrel side do that the inside and outside diameters matched the throttle body base. I think I got my adapters on eBay... Ken
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03-05-2021, 12:48 PM | #56 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
I went to the wreckers yesterday and pulled the whole TBI system from the 1990 C1500 truck and started cleaning it up and stripping out all the superfluous wires and connectors etc. I discovered I forgot to remove the knock sensor but will probably buy a new one if I decide to use it as it is mounted right below the exhaust manifold in the block water jacket and is a bugger to get to. The ECM will operate just fine without it, it just won't retard the timing as it senses a knock as it would in the stock engine. If I program the spark curve correctly, it probably won't be an issue anyway. I mean the 8BA distributor didn't have a knock sensor.
So my question to the community is regarding a block drain on the 8BA engine. From what I have found they were on the water pump mounting area but I can't seem to find any pictures or descriptions of where they are. I also found that they were not used in later engines, mine is C1BA and is 1951. I was thinking that if the area that had the hole drilled could still be used, I may be able to use that for the knock sensor. I don't want to start drilling without knowing what I am doing. Could someone familiar with these block drains let me know more about them? Exactly where they are/were and is it safe to drill a hole where it was located? Cheers
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1949 Ford F-47 with a '51 8BA Flatty, GM TBI fuel injection system, and a grey shop cat, Spot. |
03-05-2021, 01:11 PM | #57 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
I'm not familiar with tuning the GM ECU but my Megasquirt installation doesn't use a knock sensor and, with the low compression ratio of most flatheads, I doubt you there would be much advantage to using one. Advance at WOT should increase from around 5* at 500 rpm to 20-22* at 2000 rpm and above.
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03-07-2021, 09:13 AM | #58 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Well, a big cc flathead with low octane fuel will knock.... bad chamber design.
Happend to me when we traveld to Wales for the Pendine Sands racing. Best cure is 102 octance German fuel. Second is octane booster. I run 24 degrees at 2000 rpm. Nothing radical.and not needed. But i also think that a knock sensor is not needed. |
03-07-2021, 11:39 AM | #59 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
Okay, well that's great news, I'll forget the knock sensor and carry on.
I continued cleaning up the harness yesterday and brought a 4.3L throttle body unit home to play with until I find the 2.8L one. I have all the sensors and such and am ready to start assembling the system, I just need to find that elusive Merc manifold. I know of 2 but am waiting for a road trip to get one. Ken, your suggestion of having each injector spray into only one side of the manifold is definitely my plan and I may go even one further. I found that the GM ECM has 2 different injector drive signals but they always fire at the same time in original configuration. As I work my way thru understanding the EPROM code I am going to try to find a way to fire each injector separately, I'm not sure how important this is, but if I can batch fire 4 cylinders at a time instead of 8....just thinking out loud. I know the wet manifold isn't the best design. Cheers
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1949 Ford F-47 with a '51 8BA Flatty, GM TBI fuel injection system, and a grey shop cat, Spot. |
03-09-2021, 10:39 AM | #60 |
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Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion
I bet it will work just fine batch firing both of your injectors four time per engine cycle given that they are shooting into different planes, but I totally understand your desire to make it 'theoretically' better! I'm doing a bunch of minor modifications to my system right now that I doubt will change much, but should look a little 'cleaner'. If you decide to pick up a Megasquirt ECU it can definitely alternate injector firing between the two circuits. I had mine set up that way at first but it didn't work well due to my single plane manifold I think, with one injector closer to the rear cylinders and one closer to the front. Can you use a WB O2 input into the GM ECM?
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