hydraulic brake conversion

[Alan O'Connell]

Is there any feedback on how greatly Richard Lacy's (Early V-8 Garage) hydraulic brake conversion kits improve braking?

[JM 35 Sedan]

I didn't use his system expecting braking improvements. I used it for simplicity of going to hydraulic brakes without the need to modify, cut or drill anything on a totally original car, that would not allow it to be put back to original.

[Alan O'Connell]

Did his system improve braking significantly?

[Juergen]

Your question should be: are hydraulic brakes an improvement over mechanical brakes?. In the case of Ford's Lockheed style brakes, the answer is not necessarily. A properly set up mechanical brakes can lock up the 4 wheels on and early Ford, so it is difficult to see any advantage. The problem comes when the rods/cables are worn, stretched and not properly readjusted. The hydraulics apply equal pressure throughout. Less maintenance is a major reason the auto manufacturers switched to hydraulics. Fords cable brakes were self actuating, so had greater brake pressure with the same foot pressure than the later hydraulics. Switching to floaters is another improvement.

Lacy's solution just mimics the 39-48 Ford solution in a minimum evasive manner. lBoth systems need proper tune ups, but the image was that hydraulics were better.

[Flathead Fever]

The kits offer a safe way to install Early Ford hydraulics without butchering anything. They are not going improve the braking any more than some of the old sketchy methods of hacking up crossmembers to install the master cylinder.

I used to read about how bad early Ford hydraulic brakes were. Mostly from somebody trying to sell you disc brakes. Then I went for a ride in Bernie Couch's '32 roadster. He had owned it since around 1938. I'm pretty sure he owned that '32 roadster longer than anyone else on the planet had owned a '32 roadster. He was a neat guy. His 1946 dry lakes, Dago dropped axle from his '32 roadster is now under my roadster project.

Years ago, when I was getting interested in this stuff Bernie and I were driving down the road in his '32 roadster, about 40 mph, I asked him how well do these early Ford hydraulics brakes work? He didn't say a word just kept driving and then he locked up the brakes and sent flying, hard into the dash and windshield, it hurt. As he was laughing at me, he said, "what do you think." I was satisfied with them. My uncle had a '35 pickup with hydraulics and I was happy with its braking. You can put Lincolns on them with self-energizing shoes which will also improve them. That is an expensive conversion.

On My 1929 Roadster, I can lockup the tires without much pedal effort, with the mechanical brakes. The brakes only need to be as good as the tire to road contact patch. The latest and greatest brakes won't matter much if the extra applied force makes a skinny tire skid easily. It just makes the pedal effort easier.

I have my dad's '32 roadster he bought maybe 20-years ago. Neither he nor I have ever done a thing with it. I drove it home to his house the day he bought it, over 100-miles, on a 100-degree day, in a freeway traffic jam, moving 10 mph or not moving at all. I was so worried it would overheat but it never got hot. What turned out to be scary was its brakes. It has pedal pressure but not alot happens when you apply it. You need to plan way ahead for stops with that car. Had I never driven something with Early Ford hydraulics I 'd still be saying bad things about what a death trap they are. Ther would not have a straight early Ford grille left if they all stopped like that one.

My dad never drove the car more than a few times around the block. Since he did not drive it. I never pulled the brakes a part to fix them. I was working on trucks all night, raising kids during the day, building a house...
I never got around to doing thing with the car. and I have of other Ford projects ahead of it. On dad's roadster, It's not the fault of the Ford brake's, it's a maintenance issue. It's up on a hoist in my garage, not to work on, just to get it the air and out of my way so I can park another car under it. I walked by it the other day and noticed brake fluid dripping off both rear backing plates. It hasn't been driven in probably 15-years. My 5-year-old grandson want me to get it going.

Bernie taught me that when everything is as it should be that early hydraulics will stop good, at least they will stop something as lite as a '32 roadster.

[Alan O'Connell]

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I guess I should have mentioned that I have a 36 with mechanical brakes. I'm not concerned about me stopping the car, I'm concerned about the other drivers who pull out in front of me to get ahead of me and think the 36 can stop like a new car. Since I live in Massachusetts' north shore there is always a lot of traffic and crazy drivers. I'm just trying to give my 36 the best chance to stop without any damage to it. I know I can lock the brakes and go into a skid. I'm looking to be able to slow down to a stop in the most efficient way. My mechanical brakes seem to take longer to slow to a stop than I would like. I'm attracted to the hydraulic conversion kits from the early v-8 garage because I won't have to butcher the car. My only question is: Will the early v-8 garage conversion kit make the car stop much better than correctly adjusted mechanical brakes?

[Newc]

Note: Lacy is difficult to contact- been trying for a month. Newc

[Juergen]

Since you can lock up the brakes, the hydraulics will not stop faster than your mechanicals. The only way to stop faster is to increase your coefficient of friction and in general this means getting wider/stickier tires.

[joe amorello]

I liked the lacy system. Bolt on but after waiting 8 months for delivery I gave up Well adjusted rod brakes work fine

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Alan O'Connell

Is there any feedback on how greatly Richard Lacy's (Early V-8 Garage) hydraulic brake conversion kits improve braking?

The short answer is, yes.
A more useful answer is what aspect of braking are you asking about?
Pedal pressure, fading, longeviety of linings etc..
Assuming new condition of both systems and all equal parameters, a single stop of the same deceleration rate is not a comparison.

As far as comparing Ford Lockheed hydraulics to mechanicals, the hydraulics will excel in everything but original looks for judging.

[Krylon32]

I don't know anything about what Lacy offers but I've sold quite a few Boling Bros/MT complete Lincoln front and rear brake kits for Model A's thru 48 Fords and have no negative feedback to date. I do offer a 10% discount on their brake parts.

[Kurt in NJ]

The 36 should have 2 positions on the brake pedal to change the leverage.
In the service bulletins they show replacement adjusting wedge that makes the shoes somewhat self energized.
Centering the shoes and having them arced to the drum is important—- if you take a drum off look to see that all the lining is being used against the drum, if they are not centered only a portion if the surface area of the shoes are doing the work.

[Terry,OH]

Lacy's hydraulic brake mount is just that and does not improve braking. It is simply a bracket allowing a master cylinder to be mounted without modifying the frame by drilling holes. His mount does a very good job of doing just that. He also can supply pre bent brake lines to get the brake fluid to the proper spots near each wheel. All the products he sells are nice.

[Ol' Ron]

As old as I am, I've had a few cars with Mach& Hydr Brakes and found that in proper working order they worked the same. Living in the city the speed was quite slow, how evver a trip down a good road (No interstates back then) the Hyrorlics worked alittle better. As years went by, speed got higher and the old cars lost their ability to stop as fast as the modern cars. Going to a car show usually was a few hundred iles away so the interstate was the quickest way to ge there and even the Hydrolic brakes were not good enough. So the application had to change, and I went with front Disk brakes! So, What ever it takes to keep the family and friends safe.
Gramps

[Alan O'Connell]

Thank you. I've gotten a great many answeres to ponder.