56 Ford Temp and Gas Gauge 6 or 12 Volt?

[Jwawhite]

Gauges not working, Pulled Pod, PITA.
Pod has stickers on revealing it was worked on by a Speedo Shop, a long time ago.
Called the shop and asked about the reducer 12-6 V mounted between the two gauges. He states the gauges are 6 volt and if hooked to 12 V will fry 'em.
Looking at the Plasticised Wiring Diagram the gauges are hooked straight to the Battery. My other 56 from a long time ago was 12 V system and so is this 56. BUT the wiring diagram really doesn't list it's for a 12 or 6 volt system....
He also stated there are reducers in our cars for so time up to the 60's?

I have a call into the Company that made the Wiring Diagram.

What do I have 6 or 12? Anyone out there who has done a rewire?
Ohm test of Fuel and water gauge, higher ohm is Gas Gauge

[miker98038]

55 fords used 6 volt King Seeley gauges, and th earlier cars used 6 volt. 1956 fords used King Seeley’s on 12 volts. 1957 used a 6 volt reducer on the gauges (from the 12 volts in the car). Can’t tell you why. I’ve read varying opinions. Some say the King Seely’s aren’t voltage sensitive, others say they are. I don’t know.

You can put the 6 volt gauges in a 56, and add a drop resistor. Or convert a 55 to 6 volts and do the same (on a bird the gauges look identical, I don’t think they are in the cars).

Now he may have rebuilt the 12’s as 6’s and thrown in a drop resistor, but Ford didn’t.

Here’s a very old thread on King Seeley’s. Won’t answer your question, but there’s a lot of back ground info here. They only work as matched sets.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic22135-1.aspx

[dmsfrr]

The oem '56 and earlier gauges & sensors don't work on variable resistance. They used bi-metal heat sensitive switching contacts in the sensor, first illustration below.

Original '56 gauge and sensor parts were usually marked 12v because they may appear the same as the previous model year 6v parts. 2nd image below.
The oem '56 gauge circuit parts were one-yr-only matched pairs, designed to operate on full 12v with no voltage reducer.
I believe the 'full-sized' car gauges in '56 were updated to a new larger style than the '55 versions, while in '56 T-Birds the size & style appear the same.

In '57 Ford redesigned their gauge circuitry to use variable resistors in the sensors and a voltage reducer in the power supply side of the gauge circuit. '57 Temperature sensors are smaller and the Fuel tank sensors got a little larger. Images 3, 4 & 5 below.

"The ('55) fuel and temp gauges will work on 6 or 12 V and are not polarity sensitive."
Quoted from this link....
https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/battery-for-6v-to-12v-conversion/

Having said all that...
Since the gauge cluster was previously worked on and the parts used may or may not be original to '56, and apparently the shop that worked on it back whenever may not know what they did...

There isn't yet a way for me to tell from here what gauge parts you have or what they need to operate correctly. In your first photo, at least the Fuel and Temp gauges appear to be oem style parts, not poor quality off-shore copies.

Here's a link that explains testing the Fuel and Temp gauges. It could go a bit more in-depth to be really helpful and hasn't been updated in years, but at least it's a start....
https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/chec...l-temp-gauges/
.

[Jwawhite]

dmsfrr: Thank you for the link to Gil!

Is there a marking on my T and G gas gauge identifying them as 12V? Must they be removed from the Pod?

I’ll try the 6 V test on ea gauge with my bench 6V power supply Monday.

Also is there any Service I can do for an intermittent E Clock? On and off operating. Plus my Speedo bounce, there isn’t an oiling port. A drop of oil down shaft?

[Lanny]

Unscrew the speedometer cable from from the speedometer and
pull the inner cable out. Coat the cable with some lite grease, or
rub Vaseline on the whole cable.
If that don't help, then check the whole cable housing for a kink
or a wear through spot, that lets dirt get in.




'

[dmsfrr]

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Originally Posted by Jwawhite

. . . Plus my Speedo bounce, there isn’t an oiling port. A drop of oil down shaft?

There should be a small hole for oiling the speedometer bushing. It may or may not be blocked by a screw head.
'3 in 1' oil or a light machine oil can be used. Photo examples...

[Jwawhite]

Today on the bench supplied 3 v dc directly to both gauges.
Fuel Level traveled to 1/2 tank and the water Full Hot. Now I know both gauges operate.
Hooked up a new fuel sender from Dennis C and it’s not speaking to the gauge. Hooked up the sender that came with car and it still reads 1/2 full with swing arm at F.
Submitted plasticized wiring diagram, electric diagram from Service Manual and forum comments to the Speed Shop with my phone number. Prior to the info sent, he’s still adamant gauges are 6 volt.
dmsfrr thanks for the input.

[smtichy]

This old post may help understand your readings, https://fordbarn.com/forum/showpost....1&postcount=14 But it may be specific to Casco's gauges.

Also sharing some experience with this, and verifying what the Y-blocks forever post says as well as the info from dmsfrr - mainly that the gauge - sender are matched units.

Last year I upgraded the 6v generator on my '55 to a 6v alternator, which sends out a steady 7.2v when driving normally vs. about 6.7v from the old generator. This solved a lot of power problems, but now the fuel gauge reads higher than it used to. Difference is about a 1/3 tank higher when running, but with the engine off and switched to ACC it reads about right. So a small variance in the voltage getting to the sender makes a big difference in the reading on the gauge ... meaning you should be able to easily figure out if the gauge is 6 or 12v

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

. . . he’s still adamant gauges are 6 volt. ...

With '56 being one-year-only parts... when they worked on it last they may have substituted easier to find parts from an earlier year, if the size or face style was an easy swap ???

[Jwawhite]

Got a call/b from the Speed Shop. He now states affirmative on 12 vote gauges. The Shops’ Sticker was on the water g and not on the fuel. This means the water gauge needs the volt reducer to read a modern water temp sender; the Fuel g uses the volt reducer to a read a sender of 10 to 80 ohms.
There is one available 10 to 70 that has a short throw from early Ford trucks. Will purchase one and bench test it.

[RKS.PA]

As noted above, '56 was a strange year for gauges with this being the first year for 12 volts and the gauges still running on some version of 6!!! When I replaced the fuel tank, I got what I thought was the proper 12 volt sending unit from one of our major first class suppliers. Couldn't record the proper fuel level sent to my original '56 fuel gauge.

After some looking around, I found that CASCO has a sender specifically for the original '56 fuel gauge. It's their part# 9275B and it costs $62.95. I tested the ohm range and it was close to the advertised 100 ohm full and 300 ohm empty. They say in the instructions don't bend the float wand, but I found to get it exactly to full and empty, I needed to give it some "bend" therapy!!!

Very comforting to know when I need to fill up the tank and that my gauge is credible!!!

[Jwawhite]

I believe our gauges operate on 12 volts from the SM, Platicized Wiring Diagram and fellow member inputs of the 1956 Fords.
On page 254 of the SM a diagram of the tank and Fuel G is illustrated. There is a Bi-Metal Arm, Diaphragm, Heating Coil and Calibrating Shunt Fuel Sender shown.
An outfit out of IA, TANKS, sells this type and they state you cannot do an ohms reading on it.
I bought one and will do a bench test.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

. . . On page 254 of the SM a diagram of the tank and Fuel G is illustrated. There is a Bi-Metal Arm, Diaphragm, Heating Coil and Calibrating Shunt Fuel Sender shown.
An outfit out of IA, TANKS, sells this type and they state you cannot do an ohms reading on it.
I bought one and will do a bench test.

You should be able to get a reading in Ohms of the resistance of the heating coil but it will not vary with the position of the float arm. The bi-metal switch contacts should open and close with its movement so you would be able to see that on your meter.
.

[Jwawhite]

I did a bench test today.

I have an operating Fuel Gauge! Powered by 12 Volts with a bi metal fuel sender.

I need to find out if my float arm is adjusted properly now. Is the car tank identical to the wagons?.

[5851a]

Where is your tank fill at? Sedans are behind license plate so that would affect the tank. Crawl under car for a look at tank.

[Jwawhite]

5851a does this mean a better person than a 5150? That was a cop joke....

Yes, absolutely correct, my tank is a side filler and my float arm is different than a sedan's.
A while back I spent the day at a Casa Grande wrecking yard and paid the lot worker to move some Fords around to get at a '56 wagon. After much work, he was able to crawl underneath it (a fork lift was holding it up in the air...I cautioned him), drop the tank and butchedly (my word) removed the stock fuel sending unit.
I needed to shorten my Bi Metal swing arm about two inches, a friend mig welded the shaft and I installed it today. Performed an ohms test and it's still operational.
Will know if I'm successful in about a month...working on car in the ARC Shop in SCW, AZ.

[5851a]

Thats good, I don't think any of the sender manufactures know the difference between them. But the tanks don't offer a wagon version, so they know about the tanks.